Cyclists, rules of the road, a bit of cop on!

Ush1 · 29-04-2013 04:36PM

Knasher wrote: »

So you feel that the motorist was provoked by the cyclists beeping, but you don't feel that the cyclist was provoked into beeping the motorist by his "impatient and dangerous" overtaking? Because I'd consider the motorists actions sufficient provocation for the cyclists response, but I absolutely wouldn't consider the motorists response to be sufficient provoked.

Yes, the cyclist was provoked to beep as he most likely wouldn't have beeped had the motorist not done such a manoeuvre. As I've said, both acted in the wrong.

Knasher · 29-04-2013 04:51PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes, the cyclist was provoked to beep as he most likely wouldn't have beeped had the motorist not done such a manoeuvre. As I've said, both acted in the wrong.

In your view, was the cyclist sufficiently provoked to beep his horn?

I know you seem to take incorrect horn use pretty seriously, but most people seem to have a much lower standard, and I wouldn't consider his response out of line with most people.

Ush1 · 29-04-2013 04:56PM

Knasher wrote: »

In your view, was the cyclist sufficiently provoked to beep his horn?

I know you seem to take incorrect horn use pretty seriously, but most people seem to have a much lower standard, and I wouldn't consider his response out of line with most people.

No I don't think he was sufficiently provoked to beep his horn. You might be right but also most people see the horn beep as a show of aggression so you meet aggression with aggression and assault can happen.

Some people would probably think it alright if the cyclist shouted at him, doesn't mean he won't get met with aggression back as he thinks he is in the right.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-04-2013 05:00PM

It's silly that these threads are allowed to continue when all that's left is bullshít tit for tat arguments.

Who cares if he beeped the van or what the reasons are.

Man in van chased bike, abandoned his car and punched the crap out of the cyclist. He should be charged and banned from driving. Cyclist should get a kick up the hole too.

galwaycyclist · 29-04-2013 05:00PM

rubadub wrote: »

I can't find anything in law, have heard 12 years old many times though.

Not sure if this is true
http://www.roadsafetymayo.ie/Cyclists/

Aah OK as far as I know some of the content on the Mayo County Council website is pulled from an Australian site word-for-word.

Pinches of salt required

Edit: the Irish traffic regulations make no distinction based on age or infirmity - I know because I am one of the people trying to get that changed.

Also Mayo CC are not the only example of county councils pulling "advice" for cyclists off the web without checking their facts.

brokenarms · 29-04-2013 05:06PM

Whats is on the vid.

Cyclist . Gestures to the driver with a nodding head after he undertakes. The driver is letting him out. Bad form. Provoking the driver.

Cyclist takes the wrong position on the road when he exits the junction. He should not be in the middle of the road. Again bad form. Obstructing traffic maybe? Illegal ? Was he provoking him again? Hard to know.

The driver was overtaking on ZIG-ZAGs at a pedestrian crossing.
Illegal . Plain and simple.

Cyclist blow an air horn in anger .
Illegal use of a horn.

Driver opens door without looking and nearly causes an accident .With intent.
Dangerous driving . Should lose his Licence for that IMO

Cyclist blows horn again. Provoking a bad situation worse.

Driver hits the cyclist a slap. Funny as hell as it turns out the cyclist is infact a Massive coward who offered no resistance to being assaulted.

He should leave his little horn at home the next time. LOL:pac:

29-04-2013 05:26PM

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Cyclists are a ****ing menace. Crossing O'Connell st at the spire last week, lights go green for pedestrians to cross, so they start crossing. A cyclist who obviously didnt give even the briefest of sh!ts for the whole red/green light thing, just comes absolutely barreling down the street, right through the entire crowd of pedestrians, didnt slow down for a second, came within centimetres of absolutely creaming some young woman, and just kept right on cycling, not even a look behind him or a shouted 'sorry' over his pig ignorant ****headed shoulder.

He probably wasn't actually ignorant to what he was doing, unless we was blind.

Pedestrians always walk out in front of me there when I have a green light. They do the same with the Luas on Abbey Street. It's even more amazing at the corner of Aston Quay and O'Connell Bridge, where 90% of pedestrians don't even look before walking out in front of vehicles turning left from Westmoreland Street.

I drive, too, and I see motorists doing the most retarded things imaginable. There are morons everywhere, but you're quick to blame it all on the cyclists.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 05:28PM

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm not saying he can't but he felt the pass was a bit close he might have felt justified in sounding a warning. As sometimes happens when you're driving if someone is a bit close (pedestrian, cyclist or another motorist) you might give an "I'm here" blast.

In the video on the Daily Heil site it looks like the reaction of the cyclist is to try and get away and he's chased.

Imagine what the roads would be like if every time someone blew their horns it started a digging match :pac:

But the horn was after the overtaken occurred. It was improper use of the horn and can be viewed as an act of aggression. The driver should be done for the attack but the cyclist is not innocence either. What occurred in the video is what happen when dicks collide.

brokenarms · 29-04-2013 05:33PM

Jester252 wrote: »

But the horn was after the overtaken occurred. It was improper use of the horn and can be viewed as an act of aggression. The driver should be done for the attack but the cyclist is not innocence either. What occurred in the video is what happen when dicks collide.

HAHAHAHA.. Very true..:D:D

rubadub · 29-04-2013 05:36PM

brokenarms wrote: »

Driver hits the cyclist a slap. Funny as hell as it turns out the cyclist is infact a Massive coward who offered no resistance to being assaulted.

See comments like that are why you lost the job as a receptionist at the battered wives shelter :rolleyes:

If anything the driver is the coward fighting a guy who is still on a bike, probably takes on guys in wheelchairs or with broken limbs too, sucker punching gobshite, real hardman :rolleyes:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-04-2013 05:37PM

Everybody on the road/footpath is an idiot.

/thread

Mycroft H · 29-04-2013 05:48PM

Jester252 wrote: »

No that still assault and has been dealt with but you can't ignore that the cyclist created the situation
why?
for been overtaken by the van

That makes no sense. Nobody made the driver assault the cyclist. Rather, someone couldn't deal with their aggression.

brokenarms · 29-04-2013 05:49PM

rubadub wrote: »

See comments like that are why you lost the job as a receptionist at the battered wives shelter :rolleyes:

What? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Roll my eyes all over the place.

rubadub wrote: »

If anything the driver is the coward fighting a guy who is still on a bike, probably takes on guys in wheelchairs or with broken limbs too, sucker punching gobshite, real hardman :rolleyes:

Ok the driver was overreacting and a bully , but the other lad was a complete girls blouse.
Sucker punch? He pulled in and the lad chased him up the road . I'm no hardman, but I have the self respect to take a stand when faced with a bully. He is a coward. If ye are going to piss people off in the real world, be man enough to stick by your guns.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 05:58PM

BX 19 wrote: »

That makes no sense. Nobody made the driver assault the cyclist. Rather, someone couldn't deal with their aggression.

Nobody made the cyclist give him a blast with his horn. I not defending the driver he was in the wrong but the cyclist is not innocent in this situation either.

seamus · 29-04-2013 06:00PM

Funny that if the guy who was assaulted had been driving a car I can guarantee you that not one person would say that he's guilty of provoking the guy for blasting his horn in response to a dangerous overtake.

The victim blaming going on here is incredible.

Whether he should have blown the horn or not is irrelevant. A scumbag chased him down and assaulted him. There is no excuse for it. None whatsoever.

rubadub · 29-04-2013 06:04PM

brokenarms wrote: »

Sucker punch? He pulled in and the lad chased him up the road ..

Yes, sucker punched, he punched him while he was on the bike. I'm no hardman either but reckon I could probably knock over a pro MMA fighter if he was in such an extremely disadvantaged position.

Hitting a guy blindly from behind is less cowardly, he might not have fallen and be in a better position to fight back after.

I was knocked off my bike by a pedestrian a few weeks ago and was in bits getting up, he had not a bother on him. He was illegally jaywalking across a main roundabout by the way, with pedestiran lights all around it. -And it never once crossed my mind I should attack him to teach him a lesson, like some many internet warrior pedestrians here say they would if they see cyclists break the law.

radia · 29-04-2013 06:31PM

rubadub wrote: »

I can't find anything in law, have heard 12 years old many times though.

Not sure if this is true
http://www.roadsafetymayo.ie/Cyclists/

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Aah OK as far as I know some of the content on the Mayo County Council website is pulled from an Australian site word-for-word.

Yes - see here from a website in Victoria, Australia: http://hnb.dhs.vic.gov.au/dsonline/dsarticles.nsf/pages/Cycling_health_and_safety_tips?OpenDocument
The paragraph on the Mayo cc website specifying the 12 yr age limit for footpath cycling (and most of the rest of the Mayo cc page) is a direct match. The Aus site itself seems to have got it secondhand from the Australian Better Health Channel, which they acknowledge, but the BHC itself seems to have dumped parts of that cycling advice!

What can I say? I'm in a distractable mood!

galwaycyclist · 29-04-2013 06:33PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Nobody made the cyclist give him a blast with his horn. I not defending the driver he was in the wrong but the cyclist is not innocent in this situation either.

But this is the point isnt it? If I understand your position beeping a horn at someone is a an aggressive act that may well invite physical retaliation.

So if a motorist beeps their horn at a cyclist, are we to understand that in many cases this is not a helpful safety warning but an invitation to engage in physical confrontation?

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 06:47PM

galwaycyclist wrote: »

But this is the point isnt it? If I understand your position beeping a horn at someone is a an aggressive act that may well invite physical retaliation.

So if a motorist beeps their horn at a cyclist, are we to understand that in many cases this is not a helpful safety warning but an invitation to engage in physical confrontation?

In the video the cyclist didn't beep his horn until after the van had overtaken. He is not innocence in this situation as some posters are trying to make out. Did the drive have to attack him? No and he should be banned from driving at least with that display of road rage.
Did the cyclist have to blow his horn after the overtaken occurred to show his displeasure with it? No.
Both party acted wrong at different stages of the incident. This would not have happen if either the van driver or the cyclist had just walked away and left it be instead of both trying to get the last word.

galwaycyclist · 29-04-2013 06:54PM

Jester252 wrote: »

In the video the cyclist didn't beep his horn until after the van had overtaken. He is not innocence in this situation as some posters are trying to make out. Did the drive have to attack him? No and he should be banned from driving at least with that display of road rage.
Did the cyclist have to blow his horn after the overtaken occurred to show his displeasure with it? No.
Both party acted wrong at different stages of the incident. This would not have happen if either the van driver or the cyclist had just walked away and left it be instead of both trying to get the last word.

I accept that they both should have walked away. But I am still interested in exploring the idea that blowing an air powered horn at someone is interpretable as an invitation to engage in physical confrontation.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 07:11PM

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I accept that they both should have walked away. But I am still interested in exploring the idea that blowing an air powered horn at someone is interpretable as an invitation to engage in physical confrontation.

I never said the use of the horn was an invitation to engage in physical confrontation so I have no idea where your coming from. In fact I agree that the driver has road rage and action is required but a horn is meant to be used as a warning sound to let other know of you. In this case the cyclist used the horn to show his displeasure at the van overtaken him also backed up with the hand gesture. The cyclist did not need to do this in the first place. Would the van driver have attacked him if he didn't blow his horn? More or likely no. The cyclist put himself in this position. All I'm pointing out was that the cyclist is not as innocent as poster are trying to claim.

galwaycyclist · 29-04-2013 07:19PM

Jester252 wrote: »

In this case the cyclist used the horn to show his displeasure at the van overtaken him also backed up with the hand gesture. The cyclist did not need to do this in the first place. Would the van driver have attacked him if he didn't blow his horn? More or likely no. The cyclist put himself in this position. All I'm pointing out was that the cyclist is not as innocent as poster are trying to claim.

So using an air powered horn to express displeasure or disapproval of someone is something that might be expected to result in an aggressive response up to and including physical confrontation?

So people who use air powered horns in this manner against random strangers cannot claim "innocence" if this action then leads to physical confrontations with the targets of their displeasure?

PS: I tend to agree - I just wonder where the courts would come down on this.

Jawgap · 29-04-2013 07:25PM

looking_around wrote: »

This isn't always possible, living out in the country you basically have left or right, and often both ways are equally dangerous.

Adriana Tasteless Spaghetti wrote: »

It's the only way I can go.

So, no doubt you have examples from say StreetView of these bohereens with adjacent footpaths that are so dangerous, cyclists out of necessity and a complete lack of options are compelled to use said footpath to avoid being creamed by HGVs?

sarkozy · 29-04-2013 07:51PM

This:

IMO cyclists seem to think they own the road

The first words uttered in this thread. Typical attitude of drivers - that they own the road - and dead wrong. Cyclists are equal road users. In fact, cyclists don't require licenses while all other vehicles drivers do.

This places responsibility on all road users to operate their vehicles safely and a duty of care to all other road users and pedestrians.

Car culture in Ireland needs to change. But, as a cyclist, and therefore a road user, I fully agree rules should be followed sensibly. With rights come responsibilities.

Jester252 · 29-04-2013 08:29PM

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So using an air powered horn to express displeasure or disapproval of someone is something that might be expected to result in an aggressive response up to and including physical confrontation?

So people who use air powered horns in this manner against random strangers cannot claim "innocence" if this action then leads to physical confrontations with the targets of their displeasure?

PS: I tend to agree - I just wonder where the courts would come down on this.

Yes.
You can't predict how someone would react if you do this. You are taking the risk. 99% of the time nothing will happen. 1% you will blast Mr.Road Rage who will take offence. You know that he is out there yet you will do it.
Walk down a main street and blast a horn at people who walk pass you can you tell me that nobody would hit you?
Under the rules for the road a horn should not be used to show displeasure at another road user. While its against the rules of the road it would holds the same weigh in courts as jay walking.

Ray Palmer · 29-04-2013 09:29PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Yes.
You can't predict how someone would react if you do this. You are taking the risk. 99% of the time nothing will happen. 1% you will blast Mr.Road Rage who will take offence. You know that he is out there yet you will do it.
Walk down a main street and blast a horn at people who walk pass you can you tell me that nobody would hit you?
Under the rules for the road a horn should not be used to show displeasure at another road user. While its against the rules of the road it would holds the same weigh in courts as jay walking.

Drivers run the same risk with cyclists too. You could easily get a cyclist who will beat the hell out of a driver. Not every cyclist will be a push over. A lock is pretty dangerous when swung too. If somebody came out of his car like that I would be quick to defend myself

CramCycle · 29-04-2013 09:59PM

But the horn can be used to point out to the driver his driving is dangerous can it not, alot of drivers may not realise what constitutes a close overtake to a cyclist as it is often hard to tell without experience in the other road users shoes, hence the 1.5m recommended overtake distance.

i thought he blew the horn to say, "Jeebus, that was close, at least you know it's not appreciated and may think twice in future".

I beep the horn in the car to show people when they pull into quick or without due care and attention, it doesn't matter if its after the fact (or often during), there is nothing wrong or illegal with it. I don't get out of my car or off my bike when someone beeps at me, that would be both rare and stupid. If I am in the wrong, I hold up my hands, if I don't know why I am getting beeped, and I am on the bike, I will often ask, most of the time it ends pleasantly, with one or the other realising their mistake.

SerialComplaint · 29-04-2013 10:09PM

brokenarms wrote: »

Whats is on the vid.

Cyclist . Gestures to the driver with a nodding head after he undertakes. The driver is letting him out. Bad form. Provoking the driver.

Cyclist takes the wrong position on the road when he exits the junction. He should not be in the middle of the road. Again bad form. Obstructing traffic maybe? Illegal ? Was he provoking him again? Hard to know.

How do you know who the cyclist was gesturing to with his nodding head? How do you know that the driver was letting him out? You seem to have made a whole lot of assumptions here.

The cyclist is in the perfectly correct position when he exits the junction. He is not 'in the middle of the road'. He is in a position away from the kerb, away from drain covers, away from the storm debris, away from the slippy double yellow lines, and preparing to pass the upcoming parked cars. It's a good bet that the van driver was nowhere near him as he exited the junction, given the time that it took him to overtake. Again, lots of assumptions here, designed to justify the unjustifiable.

brokenarms wrote: »

Driver hits the cyclist a slap. Funny as hell as it turns out the cyclist is infact a Massive coward who offered no resistance to being assaulted.

He should leave his little horn at home the next time. LOL:pac:

Most people left this kind of macho crap behind when they left primary school. It's kinda difficult to stand and fight when you've a bike between your legs, and your toes just touch the ground. But don't let that hold you back from more assumptions.

brokenarms · 30-04-2013 12:19PM

SerialComplaint wrote: »

How do you know who the cyclist was gesturing to with his nodding head? How do you know that the driver was letting him out? You seem to have made a whole lot of assumptions here.

The cyclist is in the perfectly correct position when he exits the junction. He is not 'in the middle of the road'. He is in a position away from the kerb, away from drain covers, away from the storm debris, away from the slippy double yellow lines, and preparing to pass the upcoming parked cars. It's a good bet that the van driver was nowhere near him as he exited the junction, given the time that it took him to overtake. Again, lots of assumptions here, designed to justify the unjustifiable.

Most people left this kind of macho crap behind when they left primary school. It's kinda difficult to stand and fight when you've a bike between your legs, and your toes just touch the ground. But don't let that hold you back from more assumptions.

I present. The middle of the road :rolleyes: After he rode over a manhole on the outside .

As for nodding his head. A blind ape would know what was going on there. There was no one else there to nod at! If you fail to see that then I worry about you.

And finally. How you react when some lad cracks you a slap says a lot about you.
It happens in cities every day and night . Its happens to most folk at some stage . In their adult life. Do you run and hide or do you show a bit of backbone.
I guess you will be going with the running and hiding.

Jawgap · 30-04-2013 12:42PM

brokenarms wrote: »

......

And finally. How you react when some lad cracks you a slap says a lot about you.
It happens in cities every day and night . Its happens to most folk at some stage . In their adult life. Do you run and hide or do you show a bit of backbone.
I guess you will be going with the running and hiding.

I'd go with running (or cycling) and hiding - I've long passed the stage where I need to demonstrate backbone - plus it looks better if you try to remove yourself from the situation when you go for payback in court - the payout is much bigger and tends to hurt more than any slap I could dish out;)

Cyclists, rules of the road, a bit of cop on!

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