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ATC Student Programme 2013 *Warning post 195*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭paulmcgrath


    hat is in the ring


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,176 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    Far cry from last time out. I'll be surprised if they get even a quarter of the number of applicants this time round with the new terms & conditions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    Best of luck to all who have applied


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 Macano31


    Anyone hear how many applications were received this time?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,176 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    Macano31 wrote: »
    Anyone hear how many applications were received this time?
    Bit early yet I'd imagine for such information to be released.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭irishbloke77


    Top Dog wrote: »
    Far cry from last time out. I'll be surprised if they get even a quarter of the number of applicants this time round with the new terms & conditions.

    Wouldn't be too sure about that.

    Indeed, it will put a lot of people off applying if they have no income for 18-24 months.

    However, there are a lot of highly educated people out there these days who have no income anyhow through unemployment. Lets face it, when the 2 years training or so is over, the pay/conditions are pretty good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,176 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    However, there are a lot of highly educated people out there these days who have no income anyhow through unemployment. Lets face it, when the 2 years training or so is over, the pay/conditions are pretty good.
    True - but at least you can get the dole when you're unemployed. This is 2 years with no income at all which is quite a feat to have to manage.

    And besides, a quarter is still over 1000 applications ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭irishbloke77


    Top Dog wrote: »
    True - but at least you can get the dole when you're unemployed. This is 2 years with no income at all which is quite a feat to have to manage.

    And besides, a quarter is still over 1000 applications ;)

    True, point well made.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭adamski8


    I threw my hat in. Would love to do it but i dont think there is much chance of affording it, usless banks want to give me a massive unsecured loan. But anyway I want to see if I get offered a place and then deal with the impossible task of doing the programme.

    At least if I fail to get offered a place I wont ever wonder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Bsal


    They might change their mind in the end, look at the Aer Lingus cadetship in the end Aer Lingus payed for all of it. Wishfull thinking though.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    adamski8 wrote: »
    I threw my hat in. Would love to do it but i dont think there is much chance of affording it, usless banks want to give me a massive unsecured loan. But anyway I want to see if I get offered a place and then deal with the impossible task of doing the programme.

    I wonder how many other people have taken a similar approach to this, given the low odds of getting offered a place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭adamski8


    I wonder how many other people have taken a similar approach to this, given the low odds of getting offered a place.

    Id say a few didnt read the fine print and didnt know it was unpaid too and just flippantly applied. Nothing to lose by going through the stages.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    I'm told only a few hundred applied for obvious reasons.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 Macano31


    urajoke wrote: »
    I'm told only a few hundred applied for obvious reasons.


    Thanks for the information, was the source a reliable one. Great news for all that did apply!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭the beerhunter


    Macano31 wrote: »
    Great news for all that did apply!!

    not such great news for management who thunk they'd get the same number applying as last time out despite taking the piss with terms and conditions.

    smaller pool means some will get in who wouldn't have if money wasn't a factor, making a self-fulfilling prophecy ("no point paying them if we have to let them go") when people have to be cut before qualifying because they're not up to snuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    Macano31 wrote: »
    Thanks for the information, was the source a reliable one. Great news for all that did apply!!

    Yes.

    Means it will be a small class as the same standards should be applied meaning they should only be able to find about a dozen candidates good enough to get on the course and only half that who will qualify as an ATCO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭paulmcgrath


    2nd Round Emails out today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Bsal


    I got my invite to the aptitude tests today. 0900 on the 16th.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 TsarBomba


    Bsal wrote: »
    I got my invite to the aptitude tests today. 0900 on the 16th.

    Me too. I'm not sure what to make of it really. I just saw the ad in the paper and applied but I really should have looked and saw that it's unpaid for 2 years and has a reduced salary. Thankfully I'm down for 4pm on the 16th. Is there any way of preparing for this test?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭Contrails


    I'm in on the 13th. Can honestly say i'm not much of a threat to anyone here though. My 'mechanical and numerical reasoning' leaves alot to be desired.

    No harm in giving it a bash though.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    TsarBomba wrote: »
    Me too. I'm not sure what to make of it really. I just saw the ad in the paper and applied but I really should have looked and saw that it's unpaid for 2 years and has a reduced salary. Thankfully I'm down for 4pm on the 16th. Is there any way of preparing for this test?

    They say you can't but you definitely can. I'd look up the basic leaving cert maths, area calculations etc. I hadn't done anything like that in 10 years so I did terrible in the test and didn't get through.

    I have a degree in computer science so I'm obviously ok at maths but not at stuff I haven't touched in 10 years :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    I applied a few years back and did the aptitude test,make sure you know fractions !! there was a good few calculations on +,-,x,/ on them! they threw me!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭DazMarz


    I applied a good while back and got called back alright. Got the email today to go for the test at 09:00 on the 14th in the Gresham Hotel in Dublin.

    But looking through the thread, my heart is breaking slightly. I live in North Wicklow at the moment and I'm happy where I am. Obviously, there's no way I can commute every day. So it would necessitate moving down to Shannon/Limerick to be able to do the training.

    I was well prepared to uproot and move down, providing there was some kind of subsidy or if there was a "campus"-style training college where you had a room and there was a canteen or something.

    I do have a good bit of money saved up, but not near enough to support myself for 2 years where I cannot work part-time or where there is no subsidy. I would have to rent a room/apartment/bedsit or something. I can't imagine that will be all that cheap to do. There's also the small issue of the basic necessities of food. Then the other "necessities" (phone credit, diesel/petrol, laundry detergent, soap, etc.)

    I'd even be prepared to quit smoking (I don't drink or do drugs at all). But even that won't be enough.

    This is incredibly upsetting and is just driving it into the arms of the wealthy and/or people from near the area. Anyone from the Greater Dublin Area, Wicklow, Meath, Louth, Kildare and even Northern counties is totally precluded from this unless they're super-wealthy and have the guts of €25,000 lying around to fund themselves.

    I don't fancy the idea of giving up my life here, living in enforced poverty for 2 years, not being guaranteed a job (maybe) and being totally unfunded.

    I wouldn't have minded doing everything possible, but nobody in my family could/would sponsor me at all and I simply don't have enough money for it myself. So I'm screwed.

    I'm still going to go up to the test in Dublin, but I'll be asking a lot of questions and trying to get a definitive answer.

    I'm really gutted having just read through this thread and other sources on the subject. This is a job I would have loved to have had a crack at getting, but the way things are looking, it will be just impossible and unworkable. Unless I can get a big, unsecured bank loan. Though I do have a car and some other stuff to put as collateral, though I don't know if I want to risk everything and possibly give up 2 years of my life and not have anything to show for it at the end.

    Gutted... :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭GalwayGirl00


    Is there anywhere we could get practice tests for this? hubby was called for the
    16th, but English isn't his first language so not getting our hopes up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭paulmcgrath


    Is there anywhere we could get practice tests for this? hubby was called for the
    16th, but English isn't his first language so not getting our hopes up!

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Numerical%2C+Abstract+and+Mechanical+Reasoning+Practice+Aptitude+Tests


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ADirtySock


    Just got my email too. Wanted to be an ATC since I was a little kid but these rumors about no student pay are appalling. If I do get into the final training (which I doubt) I will have to make the decision if I want to leave my college degree for this. They aren't doing a good job on the PR front here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭paulmcgrath


    FWIW,

    Chances are about 3 in 200.

    And everyone who applied has been invited to this stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭thegift06


    FWIW,

    Chances are about 3 in 200.

    And everyone who applied has been invited to this stage.

    Ok so that means around 1666 people applied this time around.

    Was reading an article from 2010, where 4000+ applied. But the terms seemed much different back then.

    Here is a breakdown. They were given a yearly allowance for the two years of €18,506, whereas we are given nothing.

    There start salary was €50,508, whereas ours is about 30,000.

    So say you finish the course and are one year in the job, they would have earned (18,506+18,506+50,508) 87,520, whereas we will have earned just 30,000.

    Surely these terms need to be changed, if nobody agrees to the terms then they will be ****ed not us. People need to show that were not here to be walked all over. Ill go to the first round and see what is said about some sort of support for the 2 years of training, otherwise im gone


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭phonypony


    thegift06 wrote: »

    People need to show that were not here to be walked all over.

    I admire anyone who does, but unfortunately it's something we Irish don't do very well.

    Its a shame the way they've gone about this recruitment, they are depriving themselves some very intelligent individuals who are passionate about the job.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭irishbloke77


    thegift06 wrote: »
    Ok so that means around 1666 people applied this time around.

    Was reading an article from 2010, where 4000+ applied. But the terms seemed much different back then.

    Here is a breakdown. They were given a yearly allowance for the two years of €18,506, whereas we are given nothing.

    There start salary was €50,508, whereas ours is about 30,000.

    So say you finish the course and are one year in the job, they would have earned (18,506+18,506+50,508) 87,520, whereas we will have earned just 30,000.

    Surely these terms need to be changed, if nobody agrees to the terms then they will be ****ed not us. People need to show that were not here to be walked all over. Ill go to the first round and see what is said about some sort of support for the 2 years of training, otherwise im gone

    So don't apply then. Don't forget, on the previous 1 or 2 contracts, you were having to pay back 500euros per fortnightly cheque to cover the costs of training for the first 4/5 years. This time round, you pay nothing out of your wages, but don't get paid whilst training and start at a lower opening amount.
    Finally, you still end up on the same top level of pay when you get to the top of the scale.

    There are a lot of people out there who would think an opening salary of 30,000 is very good. Now, you can compare it to years gone by, or to other countries, but this is here and now. Times have changed, just look at the airlines. In years gone by, they would have paid 100% of your training costs to become a pilot, now you pay your own, then go looking for a job.

    There is no support for the first 2 years, so going in to ask what they can offer you means you are wasting theirs and your time. As for the qualifications/ less people applying/better chance of getting the job etc..., the interview/selection process only gets you into the building to start training. If less suitably qualified people apply, it may mean that even though the need for 12/18/24 new cadets is fulfilled, they may have less chance of getting through training. The selection process is there to find the best candidates that have the best chance of succeeding in getting passed training.

    HOWEVER, I do agree that the terms of this offering will probably exclude many people, some of whom would have been of great benefit to the IAA.


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