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Does anyone feel insulted by the abortion proposals?

24567…47

Comments

  • #32
    lilmissprincess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭lilmissprincess


    Christ. Youth Defence actually make me feel sick to the core of my being - even if its just down to the way they market their beliefs. Grand, they're against abortion - they have a right to have their own beliefs as long as they aren't pushed on me.

    Except they are.

    With their marketing of images of "aborted foetuses" - which are available to view by all ages of the population, including very young children, as they pass out their leaflets, its unnecessary and it disgusts me.

    An Ireland where the health, mental and physical, of our women is recognised as something that shouldn't be controlled by a state body impacted by religious teachings - thats all we're asking for. Not much.


  • #33
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    fits wrote: »
    Keep emailing your tds and remind them that their electorate want workable laws. Personally, I want to see Ireland in line with the rest of Europe on abortion laws. Current situation is ludicrous.

    http://www.whoismytd.com/

    Will list who your TDs are if you are unsure.


  • #34
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    lilmissprincess wrote: »
    Christ. Youth Defence actually make me feel sick to the core of my being - even if its just down to the way they market their beliefs. Grand, they're against abortion - they have a right to have their own beliefs as long as they aren't pushed on me.

    Except they are.

    With their marketing of images of "aborted foetuses" - which are available to view by all ages of the population, including very young children, as they pass out their leaflets, its unnecessary and it disgusts me.

    An Ireland where the health, mental and physical, of our women is recognised as something that shouldn't be controlled by a state body impacted by religious teachings - thats all we're asking for. Not much.

    One of the shadiest organisations in the country too, massive funding from the US, pushing right wing Christian agenda over here. I missed them campaigning around the estate recently, pity, slamming the door in their face would have made my day.


  • #35
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    fine gael do not want to upset the oul catholics...this suicide thing it purely a delay tactic...suicide isn't even relevant, it's safe to say as far as fine gael and ff are concerned it's votes first women 2nd.


  • #36
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,622 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    fine gael do not want to upset the oul catholics...this suicide thing it purely a delay tactic...suicide isn't even relevant, it's safe to say as far as fine gael and ff are concerned it's votes first women 2nd.

    The Meath debacle didn't help either. Labour fought election on social issues and got whole 3%. Parties know very well who actually shows up to vote, that is why nobody is cutting pensions or why opposition is very quiet on abortion.


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  • #37
    Morgase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Morgase


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I agree. Whatever about whether you believe or not that suicide should be a ground, I think its ridic that anyone thinks we should try to quantify or qualify a suicidal claim.

    How many people die by suicide every year and what do their relatives usually say? We didn't see it coming. That's whats so tragic about suicide, its preventable if someone seeks help, but the nature of it means that people might not seek that help! They are asking someone to be objective and level-headed (and, from the looks of things, perform) for a panel, when they are in a state where such capabilities are diminished anyway.

    I agree that this business of attempting to qualify a suicide claim is bonkers, but I was speaking more generally when I was saying that trying to put a dividing line between health risk and life risk is unworkable. Bodies are just too complex to be able to do that.


  • #38
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    meeeeh wrote: »
    There is an easy solution to this, just allow abortion to everyone who claims they are suicidal. No need to change constitution then either.

    Which is what the pro life side fear and have labeled the 'flood gates'.


  • #39
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Tigger99 wrote: »
    I'm not going to click on that youth defence link, but I dont think its helpful to give them free advertising by providing that link.

    You're better off, I don't think I will ever recover from what I just saw. It didn't even look human :eek: (none of them)


  • #40
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Morag wrote: »
    Which is what the pro life side fear and have labeled the 'flood gates'.

    The flood gates are already open and operated by Ryanair and a more humane approach in the UK. I don't even want to think what women in Ireland would be suffering if those gates were closed.


  • #41
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    lazygal wrote: »
    The flood gates are already open and operated by Ryanair and a more humane approach in the UK. I don't even want to think what women in Ireland would be suffering if those gates were closed.

    Or they suffering when they can't travel due to lack of money or childcare?


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  • #42
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    lazygal wrote: »
    The flood gates are already open and operated by Ryanair and a more humane approach in the UK. I don't even want to think what women in Ireland would be suffering if those gates were closed.

    Ages ago on the youth defence facebook page a guy trolled them by suggesting all women travelling to the uk should be screened for being pregnant to reduce the numbers doing it, completely in jest, but the amount of people who agreed with it was scary.


  • #43
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Morag wrote: »
    Which is what the pro life side fear and have labeled the 'flood gates'.
    Which, we all know, is a Slippery Slope to killing everything around us.


  • #44
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    i tell ya one thing! Enda looked well rattled after Claire Daly had a go yesterday....even i shuddered when she hypothetically referred to "imagine it was your daughter" ....


  • #45
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Morag wrote: »
    Or they suffering when they can't travel due to lack of money or childcare?

    Of course. My point is the floodgates are there - there's other barriers besides the law in Ireland. Women with resources can access abortion, women without can't. Which is why I've donated to charities in the UK who help women in Ireland who need to access abortion but can't because of financial issues.


  • #46
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    kylith wrote: »
    Which, we all know, is a Slippery Slope to killing everything around us.

    Haven't you heard? no human has been born in any country with legal abortion, they're populated entirely of OAP's.


  • #47
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,622 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Morag wrote: »
    Which is what the pro life side fear and have labeled the 'flood gates'.

    I know but it would solve this mess where everybody is pretending things don't happen. They happen, just not in the country. Abortions would be common then but every could still pretend that they happen only for medical reasons. The only difference is less children would be born to junkies or other risky groups who don't have money to travel.


  • #48
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    krudler wrote: »
    Haven't you heard? no human has been born in any country with legal abortion, they're populated entirely of OAP's.

    Sure all us women are mad for abortions. It's not that we understand that it's an unfortunate circumstance for a woman to find herself in, sympathise with a very difficult decision, and want to offer her support whichever course she chooses, it's that we can't wait to line up to kill some babbies.

    When it comes in I'm not going to bother with contraception any more, I'll just have an abortion.


  • #49
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Which is why we need the 8th amendment repealed and the abortion pill made legal imho
    but given that they have waited for so long to legislate for the risk to a woman's life never mind our health,
    who knows how long it will before we have that sort of choice.


  • #50
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Morag wrote: »
    Which is why we need the 8th amendment repealed and the abortion pill made legal imho
    but given that they have waited for so long to legislate for the risk to a woman's life never mind our health,
    who knows how long it will before we have that sort of choice.

    A long time. But we need to fight for it.


  • #51
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    What annoys me is that even if this legislation passes, doctors have to wait for a woman to get that sick to receive treatment. Why wait? Why can't we be adults about it and say "I'm sorry, this pregnancy has no chance of being viable. We'll terminate now rather than risk the woman's health. It will hopefully lessen the amount of emotional and physical trauma she goes through".

    The "floodgates" thing is great too. Good and condescending.


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  • #52
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    What annoys me is that even if this legislation passes, doctors have to wait for a woman to get that sick to receive treatment. Why wait? Why can't we be adults about it and say "I'm sorry, this pregnancy has no chance of being viable. We'll terminate now rather than risk the woman's health. It will hopefully lessen the amount of emotional and physical trauma she goes through".

    The "floodgates" thing is great too. Good and condescending.

    I can only imagine it's some hope of a miraculous recovery so that both mother and child are saved. Some people seem to believe that either both live or both die, and that no mother should want to save her life over that of the unborn.


  • #53
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Can someone link to latest post on broadsheet. (talk anti Choice like a boss). Its unbelievable!


  • #54
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    fits wrote: »
    Can someone link to latest post on broadsheet. (talk anti Choice like a boss). Its unbelievable!

    Talk Anti-Choice Like A Boss


  • #55
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/04/24/talk-anti-choice-like-a-boss/


  • #56
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    What annoys me is that even if this legislation passes, doctors have to wait for a woman to get that sick to receive treatment. Why wait? Why can't we be adults about it and say "I'm sorry, this pregnancy has no chance of being viable. We'll terminate now rather than risk the woman's health. It will hopefully lessen the amount of emotional and physical trauma she goes through".

    Because of the wording of the 8th amendment, there has to be a greater risk to a woman's life for them to do the procedure as the amendment to the Constitution put the life of the 'unborn' (no matter what stage of the pregnancy, even when miscarrying or in the case of fatal fetal abnormality) on equal footing with the life of the woman.

    A woman's health doesn't get a look in.

    I can't see it changing until tds and politcal parties see that there are more votes in being pro choice and pro women's health and lives, which means we have to let them know and we have to make it an election issue and press for the 8th amendment to be repealed.


  • #57
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    It's stuff like this that makes me feel helpless and completely impotent regarding change in society. I've emailed my local TDs numerous times. I participate in marches and protests. But I know that any mention of repealing the 8th Amendment will unleash a hellstorm of vitriol.

    I worry about how unbalanced the funding is in the pro-life and pro-choice groups. American pro-life groups are so powerful in relation to Ireland's size that they can drown out the pro-choice side with money and co-ordinated campaigns as easily as swatting a fly. But I don't feel I should be able to dictate where organisations like Youth Defence get their money either just because I disagree with them.

    It's exhausting before you even begin, you know?


  • #58
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Morag wrote: »
    I can't see it changing until tds and politcal parties see that there are more votes in being pro choice and pro women's health and lives

    This is the bit that worries me. Id like to think its true but then I see the awful vicious hate spewing comments on any kind of forum debate about abortion, or in the comments section of news sites where it really seems that a LOT of people are not pro-choice. Not by a long shot.

    This site is quite different, and at a guess Id imagine that its due to the age profile of the users and the fact that we are posting about this in The Ladies Lounge. If you look at some other websites its kind of scary.


  • #59
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    username123 wrote: »
    This is the bit that worries me. Id like to think its true but then I see the awful vicious hate spewing comments on any kind of forum debate about abortion, or in the comments section of news sites where it really seems that a LOT of people are not pro-choice. Not by a long shot.

    This site is quite different, and at a guess Id imagine that its due to the age profile of the users and the fact that we are posting about this in The Ladies Lounge. If you look at some other websites its kind of scary.

    I think the pro-life side feel that they are on the correct moral ground, and feel more comfortable being VERY vocal. Many, many people who are pro-choice keep quiet for fear of negative reactions.


  • #60
    Tigger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭Tigger99


    Or that they are then seen as pro-abortion and anti-babies instead of pro-choice


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  • #61
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Faith wrote: »
    I think the pro-life side feel that they are on the correct moral ground, and feel more comfortable being VERY vocal. Many, many people who are pro-choice keep quiet for fear of negative reactions.

    Women who spoke to deputies and senators about termination for fatal abnormalities in Leinster House were accused of having a wider agenda by Ronan Mullen. That's what you're up against.


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