Progessive Ireland

Legs.Eleven · 22-04-2013 07:09PM

I'm all for progress and would like to see the legalisation of all drugs but you can't put that in the same priority status as gay marriage and abortion.

Steve O · 22-04-2013 07:13PM

Encroaching on other people's way of life is one of the loveable traits of people in this country.

I'd love the conservative minded religious nutjobs to **** the hell off but I'm not going to force it by law. Allow others the same freedoms as long as it doesn't affect you.

Iwasfrozen · 22-04-2013 07:17PM

Steve O wrote: »

Encroaching on other people's way of life is one of the loveable traits of people in this country.

I'd love the conservative minded religious nutjobs to **** the hell off but I'm not going to force it by law. Allow others the same freedoms as long as it doesn't affect you.

The unborn babies I'm sure would agree.

Steve O · 22-04-2013 07:21PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The unborn babies I'm sure would agree.

Hmmm, you haven't thought that through have you?

SeanW · 22-04-2013 07:22PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

We're inexorably moving toward adopting similar legislation to the Swedes, which seeks to criminalise men for the purchase of sex, even where that transaction is entered into freely by both parties.

That's not progressive to my mind, it's John-Charles McQuaid revisited. It's also odd to find Trade Unions and others on the left pushing such an agenda - especially so, as it was they who traditionally decried the pernicious influence of the Church in the formulation of repressive social policy.

There's nothing odd about it. The "Swedish model" of vilifying only the "johns" as - in all cases - rapists and exploiters and very nasty people - is a central demand of the Feminist-Left. So the Leftists in the trade unions are happy to get into bed with the nuns that ran the Magdelane launderies because their ideology (on this matter) is identical.

BTW now that they've got Feminist textbook laws on prostitution in Sweden and such laws on the way likely elsewhere, the feminist left is moving on to porn.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/04/20134274739879996.html

Surprise surprise, the Catholic News Agency agrees that pornography is a serious problem, and agrees with the Feminist-Left ...

Radical feminism is as much of a threat to human freedom (especially for men) as radical religion.

af_thefragile · 22-04-2013 07:24PM

tdv123 wrote: »

I'm not much for the legalized marijuana bill. I'm more for the legalized opiates bill.

MMMMMMMMM Opium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpHDdCFF1Gw

Fighting Irish · 22-04-2013 07:25PM

smash wrote: »

Because legalised marijuana is as important as same-sex marriage or abortion issues?

yup

tdv123 · 22-04-2013 07:30PM

Irish_wolf wrote: »

Medical marijuana should be legal in my view. Especially for people with cancer, as they can get serious stomach problems during chemo. Weed helps with this as well as being a general relaxant.

.

I don't like recreational use of the drug but I think it's crazy that it's not used for medical purposes if can really help someone & is the best option for their illness.

It's even more crazy when extremely addictive drugs like Xanax & Zopiclone are handed out like smarties in this country. And you can walk into any chemist in the country & buy products containing Codeine with little or no questions asked.

tdv123 · 22-04-2013 07:32PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpHDdCFF1Gw

My hero.

Steve O · 22-04-2013 07:33PM

SeanW wrote: »

There's nothing odd about it. The "Swedish model" of vilifying only the "johns" as - in all cases - rapists and exploiters and very nasty people - is a central demand of the Feminist-Left. So the Leftists in the trade unions are happy to get into bed with the nuns that ran the Magdelane launderies because their ideology (on this matter) is identical.

BTW now that they've got Feminist textbook laws on prostitution in Sweden and such laws on the way likely elsewhere, the feminist left is moving on to porn.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/04/20134274739879996.html

Surprise surprise, the Catholic News Agency agrees that pornography is a serious problem, and agrees with the Feminist-Left ...

Radical feminism is as much of a threat to human freedom (especially for men) as radical religion.

Radical feminism is a very much minority movement. The likes of Ivanna Bacik spouting incoherent laws is about as far as radical Feminism will go and it's a pity these minority fruitcakes are given a microphone to spout their man-hating bile, normal genuine feminists do not believe this crap.

Feminism is still needed in the likes of Saudi Arabia and other extremist Societies, however so-called radical feminists are too busy being offended at advertising campaigns and men's rights movements.

GTDolanator · 22-04-2013 07:39PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpHDdCFF1Gw

That video is neither entertaining or relevent to the subject in anyway

Real Life · 22-04-2013 07:43PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Some issues transcend time. The value placed on human life is one of them.

If human life was really valued abortion would be legalised. think about it

Odysseus · 22-04-2013 07:53PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Of course marijuana should be legalised for medical reasons. We already have diamorphine *ahem heroine ahem* in hospitals.

Diamorphine cannot be prescribed here, sadly. A GP in the uk can prescribe it but it has no license here.

Unless there has been some change that I am totally unaware of?

Gott · 22-04-2013 08:11PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Diamorphine cannot be prescribed here, sadly. A GP in the uk can prescribe it but it has no license here.

Unless there has been some change that I am totally unaware of?

I'm not sure about diamorphine but the hospital where I work has cocaine for dental procedures.

Duggys Housemate · 22-04-2013 08:16PM

Steve O wrote: »

Radical feminism is a very much minority movement. The likes of Ivanna Bacik spouting incoherent laws is about as far as radical Feminism will go and it's a pity these minority fruitcakes are given a microphone to spout their man-hating bile, normal genuine feminists do not believe this crap.

Feminism is still needed in the likes of Saudi Arabia and other extremist Societies, however so-called radical feminists are too busy being offended at advertising campaigns and men's rights movements.

Banning porn and making prostitution illegal for clients is fairly mainstream in European feminism.

And in Ireland :

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/council-to-vote-on-banning-buying-sex-208619.html

Odysseus · 22-04-2013 08:22PM

Gott wrote: »

I'm not sure about diamorphine but the hospital where I work has cocaine for dental procedures.

Is it used? I think it can still be justified for certain eye ops, but I imagine it is used very very occasionally.

Have you any idea how often it is dispensed a year in that hospital?

I remember there wasmurber years ago when the red tops found out a client was travelling from the States to the UK once a month for amonths supply of amps of diamorphine and cocaine.

Gott · 22-04-2013 08:24PM

Steve O wrote: »

Radical feminism is a very much minority movement. The likes of Ivanna Bacik spouting incoherent laws is about as far as radical Feminism will go and it's a pity these minority fruitcakes are given a microphone to spout their man-hating bile, normal genuine feminists do not believe this crap.

Feminism is still needed in the likes of Saudi Arabia and other extremist Societies, however so-called radical feminists are too busy being offended at advertising campaigns and men's rights movements.

Don't forget those gosh darn video games - always oppressing women.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games

Gott · 22-04-2013 08:25PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Is it used? I think it can still be justified for certain eye ops, but I imagine it is used very very occasionally.

Have you any idea how often it is dispensed a year in that hospital?

I remember there wasmurber years ago when the red tops found out a client was travelling from the States to the UK once a month for amonths supply of amps of diamorphine and cocaine.

Ah very infrequently, I've only ever heard of it ordered twice in five years of working in the place.

Legs.Eleven · 22-04-2013 08:26PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Banning porn and making prostitution illegal for clients is fairly mainstream in European feminism.

And in Ireland :

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/council-to-vote-on-banning-buying-sex-208619.html

How does that prove it's mainstream? I don't know any women who call themselves Feminists who'd support either of these measures. Catherine Clancy is one of thousands. This article proves nothing. And where's the mention of banning of porn??

Galwayguy35 · 22-04-2013 08:32PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I'm all for progress and would like to see the legalisation of all drugs but you can't put that in the same priority status as gay marriage and abortion.

All drugs?

Surely you don't include heroin and cocaine in that?

Odysseus · 22-04-2013 08:36PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

All drugs?

Surely you don't include heroin and cocaine in that?

I know this is going OT but why not? Now clearly there needs to be a system but diamorphine is prescribed to opiate addicts in a few counties. Cocaine is available too but I acknowledge I am not that familiar with the various precedures involved with cocaine.

SeanW · 22-04-2013 08:39PM

Steve O wrote: »

Radical feminism is a very much minority movement. The likes of Ivanna Bacik spouting incoherent laws is about as far as radical Feminism will go and it's a pity these minority fruitcakes are given a microphone to spout their man-hating bile, normal genuine feminists do not believe this crap.

I wish I shared your confidence.

Feminism is still needed in the likes of Saudi Arabia and other extremist Societies, however so-called radical feminists are too busy being offended at advertising campaigns and men's rights movements.

True for the first part, I'm not so sure about the second.

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

How does that prove it's mainstream? I don't know any women who call themselves Feminists who'd support either of these measures. Catherine Clancy is one of thousands. This article proves nothing. And where's the mention of banning of porn??

The Feminist-Left is already making law in Sweden and Iceland. Ireland may be on the verge of copying the "Swedish model" (i.e. men are bastards) with the help of the Religious-Right. Harsh laws against pornography are already on the books in Iceland and may be extended to include online censorship (perhaps they could borrow a book on it from the Chinese and the Saudis?)

There are also plans for gender-quotas to be imposed Europe wide on company boards and whatnot. Again, this "positive discrimination" crap is front and centre in the demands of Feminist-Leftists.

It's very much mainstream and I fear this insanity will march on until the Feminist-Left is stopped and told to go to hell. Which, although essential for a just society, may never happen.

Galwayguy35 · 22-04-2013 08:40PM

Odysseus wrote: »

I know this is going OT but why not? Now clearly there needs to be a system but diamorphine is prescribed to opiate addicts in a few counties. Cocaine is available too but I acknowledge I am not that familiar with the various precedures involved with cocaine.

Remember what heroin did back in the 1980s?

Can't see any grounds for making it legal.

Yamanoto · 22-04-2013 08:42PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

And in Ireland :

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/council-to-vote-on-banning-buying-sex-208619.html

Bizarre stuff from article above, even by the standards of misinformation that commonly frame the debate.

Ms Clancy said local authorities have a duty to highlight the “hidden” sex trade industry.

“Every hour, over 200 men are buying sex in Ireland. Every day, internet escort sites advertise over 1,000 women and children — girls and boys.

mikom · 22-04-2013 08:43PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Remember what heroin did back in the 1980s?

Can't see any grounds for making it legal.

Heroin was legalised back in the 80's?

Duggys Housemate · 22-04-2013 08:43PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

How does that prove it's mainstream? I don't know any women who call themselves Feminists who'd support either of these measures. Catherine Clancy is one of thousands. This article proves nothing. And where's the mention of banning of porn??

The vote was unanimous. All parties in Ireland's second city. Pretty mainstream. Countries which ban prostitution on feminist grounds tend to also ban strip clubs and attempt a ban on porn - which is prostitution with a camera.

Real Life · 22-04-2013 09:05PM

The problem with the drug legalisation is, people hear legalise it and think its going to be a free for all. Obviously if its legalised it has to be regulated in the same way alcohol or nicotine is or even more so. It doesnt mean lets legalise it and then forget about it.

Herb Powell · 22-04-2013 09:08PM

May I ask what is inherintly bad, wrong, or immoral about simply getting high? Because everyone on the fence seems to be saying "YEah I'd support legalisation, but only for medical use. Otherwise people will just be using it to get high". -Yeah, so what?

Galwayguy35 · 22-04-2013 09:09PM

mikom wrote: »

Heroin was legalised back in the 80's?

No

Odysseus · 22-04-2013 09:15PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Remember what heroin did back in the 1980s?

Can't see any grounds for making it legal.

Ireland has had significant issues with opiates before the 80s, however, yes, I remember the 80s a good few lads I grew up with died, some self-harm some AIDS related.

However, which problem or problems from that time-frame are you referring to? If we had quality diamorphine treatment available would those issues be relevant today?

I had worked in addicts for over a decade now; whilst I have seen addicts die, I have seen plenty recover, lead a drug free life, leave behind the the criminality associated with their previous life. Enter the education system, and move on to jobs that pay significantly more thasn me.

I also seen some who do very well on methadone and leave the criminality behind, they can also enter the education system and work force to various levels. They can sometimes be held back by our treatment services but they can do well. They just are not [and in some cases may never be ready to abstaint totally], but they only use what they are prescribed.

Then there are the ones who just can't stablise on methadone for different reasons,they try to address they other aspects of their life but their heroin use draws them back in every time. These guys would be suitable for such treatment.

Then of course there are those who are just not ready to egage with treatment services all they do is collect a daily dose of methadone and go off and do their own thing. Some of these will over time engage with treatment some will not.

Now to be fair the above are gross generalisations but it does cover the various groups of addicts attending for treatment.

I don't like a system that punishs a person for having an addiction, making them criminals just for being in possession of the drug they need to avoid withdrawal.

Through have a treatment service which gives people the drugs they are using in this case diamorphine, we can treat those who want to give up, those who are ready to stabilse their drug use we can stabilse them. Those who are not ready to stabilse we can practice safer use and harm reduction issues with.

We take the criminality out of addiction, we help to manage the health problems caused by the use of impure street drugs, we have contact with addicts that when a window of opportunity to address their addiction presents we are in a position to do something about it. The list just goes on.

What negatives would you see?

Progessive Ireland

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