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mandatory ID cards:

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Comments

  • #32
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    No Way Man, I dont want big brother knowing too much about me. I'm not pushed on my sister knowing too much either.


  • #33
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    Chemical Burn wrote: »
    I believe in the (I know it's clichéed), expression, "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear".
    So how about if everyone needs to have state monitored CCTV in every room in their house? There's an awful lot of illegal activity that happens behind closed doors. If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear.
    The expression has a nice ring to it, but how far do you want to stretch the truth in it? At what point does it no longer apply?
    Chemical Burn wrote: »
    I lived in Holland and I had to carry an ID card at all times, or face a fine if caught without it
    Mmm, nothing to fear except naughty-boy fines if you forget to bring it.


  • #34
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    I'd support it. Don't see how it would impose upon my civil liberties or privacy.


  • #35
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    What's in it for me? Maybe if they gave me money to have one.


  • #36
    Fr_Fitzexactly
    Site Banned Posts: 85 ✭✭Fr_Fitzexactly


    The yes crowd don't have to justify their answer at all according to OP. Not fair.

    Nothing to hide is the greatest amount of bool shiit argument ever made


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  • #37
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    The nothing to hide argument wrt your privacy is fallacious but wrt your identity I think it holds up better.

    Really, why would you have need to conceal your identity from an official who is entitled to ask for it?

    (By that I mean an official in a situation where he/she is entitled to ask for it, not that they are always entitled to do so).


  • #38
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    humbert wrote: »
    Really, why would you have need to conceal your identity from an official who is entitled to ask for it?

    If I want to walk down the street with my face covered I don't see why someone should be allowed to violently remove it.

    That's police state **** that is.


  • #39
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If I want to walk down the street with my face covered I don't see why someone should be allowed to violently remove it.

    That's police state **** that is.
    I don't think the OP's suggesting that the gardai should be given increased powers to stop you, or that this ID is tattooed on your forehead.


  • #40
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    They are slowly bringing it in, having to have your drivers license when driving and all newly issued PPS/social welfare/dole card will have photos and biometrics on them.


  • #41
    Palytoxin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭Palytoxin


    I just want people to feck off and leave me and all my privacy alone in peace tbh.


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  • #42
    lanyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭lanyard


    humbert wrote: »
    I'd support it. Don't see how it would impose upon my civil liberties or privacy.

    Papers Please.


  • #43
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    humbert wrote: »
    I don't think the OP's suggesting that the gardai should be given increased powers to stop you, or that this ID is tattooed on your forehead.

    Mandatory ID cards. :confused:

    The only way to make it mandatory would be to make it an offence to not have it. I'm presuming that not having it would lead to arrest and good luck with trying to resist arrest without having a couple of gaurds getting rough with you.

    So essentially it's giving the police the power to throw you in a cell if you don't carry an ID.

    That's ****ing insane and anyone who supports it needs their head examined imho.

    They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.


  • #44
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Mandatory ID cards. :confused:

    The only way to make it mandatory would be to make it an offence to not have it. I'm presuming that not having it would lead to arrest and good luck with trying to resist arrest without having a couple of gaurds getting rough with you.

    So essentially it's giving the police the power to throw you in a cell if you don't carry an ID.

    That's ****ing insane and anyone who supports it needs their head examined imho.
    You seem to be inferring that the gardai would be stopping people simply to check whether they are carrying ID. Something that doesn't happen in any of the other first world countries which have this system.

    In reality the reason they would be mandatory is to stop people who would prefer to conceal their identity from saying they forgot it and undermining the entire purpose of the system.


  • #45
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Mandatory ID cards. :confused:

    The only way to make it mandatory would be to make it an offence to not have it. I'm presuming that not having it would lead to arrest and good luck with trying to resist arrest without having a couple of gaurds getting rough with you.

    So essentially it's giving the police the power to throw you in a cell if you don't carry an ID.

    That's ****ing insane and anyone who supports it needs their head examined imho.


    It would be mandatory to carry it, but that doesn't imply any additional rights for the Gardai to demand to see it.

    We could have a system where they were mandatory to carry, but the Gardai had to show just cause to demand to see it.


  • #46
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    humbert wrote: »
    You seem to be inferring that the gardai would be stopping people simply to check whether they are carrying ID. Something that doesn't happen in any of the other first world countries which have this system.

    It could certainly be used as an excuse to stop someone and I don't believe for one second that it has never been used as an excuse by the police to hassle someone.
    In reality the reason they would be mandatory is to stop people who would prefer to conceal their identity from saying they forgot it and undermining the entire purpose of the system.

    What's wrong with concealing your identity? Do you think women who wear those face covering things should be criminalised for it?


  • #47
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    It could certainly be used as an excuse to stop someone and I don't believe for one second that it has never been used as an excuse by the police to hassle someone.



    What's wrong with concealing your identity? Do you think women who wear those face covering things should be criminalised for it?
    I guess I should have been more explicit. Conceal their identity from an official who has the right to request it.

    The first part of your post is just speculation.


  • #48
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Hey CB, since you've "nothing to hide", how about you post up your name, address, phone numbers, PPS number, bank account details, etc..

    Unless... you actually do have something to hide, of course.


  • #49
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    twinQuins wrote: »
    Hey CB, since you've "nothing to hide", how about you post up your name, address, phone numbers, PPS number, bank account details, etc..

    Unless... you actually do have something to hide, of course.
    So you're equating allowing the entire internet to know your bank detail to allowing the gardai to know your name?


  • #50
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    humbert wrote: »
    I guess I should have been more explicit. Conceal their identity from an official who has the right to request it.

    Like a police officer?


  • #51
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Like a police officer?
    Precisely.


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  • #52
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 9,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    No - in a res publica the state should carry identification themselves to make them know to the citizens.


  • #53
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    No. I never carry a wallet unless I need my bank card or a lot of money on me. I don't even have it when I'm driving most of the time.
    Totally unnecessary, especially since if the gardai stop you, you can say you're from the North and there's nothing they can do about it.


  • #54
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    humbert wrote: »
    So you're equating allowing the entire internet to know your bank detail to allowing the gardai to know your name?

    What's your name then?


  • #55
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,533 ✭✭✭SV


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    What's your name then?

    Are you a Garda?


  • #56
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    What's your name then?
    Entire internet not the same as the gardai. Even then only with good reason.

    Very feeble counterarguments.


  • #57
    artanevilla
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Do you trust all Gardai? A uniform and a pledge to uphold law and order does not hold much salt with me. Words are wind.

    I won't carry a mandatory ID card. I'm not a dog, I won't wear a collar.


  • #58
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    No. If no, justify your answer.
    artanevilla wrote: »
    Do you trust all Gardai? A uniform and a pledge to uphold law and order does not hold much salt with me. Words are wind.

    I won't carry a mandatory ID card. I'm not a dog, I won't wear a collar.
    Good luck travelling abroad.


  • #59
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    I like things the way they are but surely identity cards are very 1940's technology.

    If you support the whole mandatory I'd carrying idea then chipping must be the way forward. Even my dog has a chip in case she gets lost or stolen and it has had no health implications so what's the harm.

    We could chip all baby's when they get their heal prick test and enter their details on the system. The same goes for anyone who achieves citisinship or gets residence.

    It would then be up to the polticians to decide what information should be on the chip and by who and when it can be scanned.

    Name, address, occupation, tax status, driving privileges, blood type,religion, sexual preference, political affiliation, etc,etc.

    Sure nothing to hide, nothing to fear...


  • #60
    artanevilla
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    humbert wrote: »
    Good luck travelling abroad.

    I'll carry my passport if I need to travel abroad, its the sovereign right of a state to control its borders and the right of someone to travel those borders, with that right comes the responsibility of carrying a passport.

    However, in my own country, as a free society, I have the right to privacy and that should extend to me being able to walk down the street without having to identify myself. This is obviously coupled with the responsibility that I obey the law.


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  • #61
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    humbert wrote: »
    So you're equating allowing the entire internet to know your bank detail to allowing the gardai to know your name?

    Did I mention the Gardaí anywhere in my post?
    Chemical Burn wrote: »
    [...] I believe in the (I know it's clichéed), expression, "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear". [...]

    Did you miss this part of CB's OP, perhaps?


This discussion has been closed.
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