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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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Comments

  • #6302
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »
    The Heineken cup isn't the only way of judging teams, Toulouse are playing in a much tougher league then Munster and are in the top three, whereas Munster are miles off making the play-offs in the Rabo. That is pretty telling to the respective quality of the sides.

    For a team like Munster, it's all about the H cup. Our league is a bit of a joke.


  • #6303
    Glass Prison 1214
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Last season, Edinburgh were quite a good team extremely lucky

    FYP


  • #6304
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    For a team like Munster, it's all about the H cup. Our league is a bit of a joke.

    More nonsense, Munster take the raboo very seriously


  • #6305
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    awec wrote: »
    Do you think last season that Edinburgh were a better team than every single team who wasn't in the semi final?

    They were bang up there last season, now I know they concentrated on the H cup, and that made them more dangerous. They were def superior to teams like Munster/Toulouse/Cardiff who fell badly at the q-final stage


  • #6306
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    Might not be a better team, but we're having a better season. That's all that matters in the grand scheme of things.
    Really?

    So if Leinster win the Amlin, Ulster win the Rabo and Munster are beaten HEC semi finalists you are going to say that Munster will have had the best season?


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  • #6307
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    trouttrout wrote: »
    More nonsense, Munster take the raboo very seriously

    I didn't see any signs of that v Dragons the other night.


  • #6308
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Rightwing wrote: »
    They were bang up there last season, now I know they concentrated on the H cup, and that made them more dangerous. They were def superior to teams like Munster/Toulouse/Cardiff who fell badly at the q-final stage
    No they weren't ffs.

    They were a pretty poor team who had a good cup run. That's the fun of cup and knockout rugby, the best teams are not the ones who always go through.

    Unlike leagues where the cream will eventually rise to the top.


  • #6309
    durkadurka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Did you see the game?


  • #6310
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I didn't see any signs of that v Dragons the other night.

    You were in Wales to see that I presume?

    Well considering Munster have been in the playoffs for the last five or six years maybe you should look to that as an indication of whether they are interested in the competition rather than a one off game against the Dragons that meant nothing because they were already unable to get into the playoffs


  • #6311
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    awec wrote: »
    No they weren't ffs.

    They were a pretty poor team who had a good cup run. That's the fun of cup and knockout rugby, the best teams are not the ones who always go through.

    Unlike leagues where the cream will eventually rise to the top.

    That's the classic mistake.

    The H cup is both, league and knockout. 6 league matches, then knockout rugby. That's what makes it a great competiton.


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  • #6312
    schools rugby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭schools rugby


    Very hard to say what teams are better than who but this would be my top 8 in Europe at the moment :

    1 Clermont
    2 Leinster
    3 Saracens
    4 Toulon
    5 Ulster
    6 Munster
    7 Leicester
    8 Montpellier


  • #6313
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    That's the classic mistake.

    The H cup is both, league and knockout. 6 league matches, then knockout rugby. That's what makes it a great competiton.

    Getting back to the earlier nonsense, where exactly do you think Munster are superior to Toulouse? What areas/positions


  • #6314
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Getting back to the earlier nonsense, where exactly do you think Munster are superior to Toulouse? What areas/positions

    Virtually everywhere. Look at the previous poster's top 8.

    Not a sign of Toulouse in it, and rightly so.


  • #6315
    Glass Prison 1214
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Getting back to the earlier nonsense, where exactly do you think Munster are superior to Toulouse? What areas/positions

    I'd say your stronger in the second row and scrumhalf, no where else, although Zebo would get in their team easily.


  • #6316
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Rightwing wrote: »
    That's the classic mistake.

    The H cup is both, league and knockout. 6 league matches, then knockout rugby. That's what makes it a great competiton.

    Sigh.

    It's a group. Of 4 teams. Six games, where having a slow start will effectively end your chances of progression.

    A group where the teams in the group are determined by a draw. You can have a tough group or you can have an easy group.

    The Rabo is a 22 fixture season where a slow start is easily recovered from. An off day is not the end of the world. The league format is the best format for determining the most worthy team, that's why it's used.

    The cup format, such as the format taken by the HEC, is used because it provides entertainment and gives every team a chance. It allows for upsets, and it is very unforgiving. It forces teams to try and win every game. It allows for teams like Leinster, who are without a doubt in the top 2 or 3 sides in Europe to be knocked out in the group stages.


  • #6317
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Virtually everywhere. Look at the previous poster's top 8.

    Not a sign of Toulouse in it, and rightly so.

    No, exactly where, what areas, back up what you're trying to say and stop avoiding the question


  • #6318
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    I mean how anyone can imply that we're stronger than Toulouse "virtually everywhere" is baffling to me. Their backrow for example is so much better than ours it's not even funny


  • #6319
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    awec wrote: »
    Sigh.

    It's a group. Of 4 teams. Six games, where having a slow start will effectively end your chances of progression.

    A group where the teams in the group are determined by a draw. You can have a tough group or you can have an easy group.

    The Rabo is a 22 fixture season where a slow start is easily recovered from. An off day is not the end of the world. The league format is the best format for determining the most worthy team, that's why it's used.

    The cup format, such as the format taken by the HEC, is used because it provides entertainment and gives every team a chance. It allows for upsets, and it is very unforgiving. It forces teams to try and win every game.

    There's a lot of sense in this post mixed with utter nonsense.
    Munster had a poor start to this campaign, yet were good enough to overcome it.
    Groups are seeded, there isn't much difference between them.
    Leagues have a top 4, then you are back to a knockout situation, this makes it a bit of a farce, if you top the league you should be the winner.


  • #6320
    Glass Prison 1214
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's a lot of sense in this post mixed with utter nonsense.
    Munster had a poor start to this campaign, yet were good enough to overcome it.
    Groups are seeded, there isn't much difference between them.
    Leagues have a top 4, then you are back to a knockout situation, this makes it a bit of a farce, if you top the league you should be the winner.

    Ok lets just take two sides as an example, do you think Leinster felt they got a draw as kind as Harlequins did? If there isn't much between the groups as you say.


  • #6321
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Virtually everywhere. Look at the previous poster's top 8.

    Complete and utter delusion. Their backrow combination is one of the best in the world, they were awesome against the mighty Clermont at the weekend. Example: Comparing Picamoles to Coughlan is laughable and I'm a fan of Coughlan!

    Backs like McAlister, Vincent Clerc, Gael Fickou and Yoann Huget would walk into the current Munster side, at the very least all of them would feature in the 23.

    "Virtually everywhere" is just nonsense rightwing. C'mon now...


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  • #6322
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's a lot of sense in this post mixed with utter nonsense.
    Munster had a poor start to this campaign, yet were good enough to overcome it.
    Groups are seeded, there isn't much difference between them.
    Leagues have a top 4, then you are back to a knockout situation, this makes it a bit of a farce, if you top the league you should be the winner.

    Group 1: Quins, Zebre, Biarritz, Connacht

    Group 2: Leinster, Clermont, Exeter, Scarlets

    Ya, no difference in the quality in those two groups :rolleyes:


  • #6323
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »
    Ok lets just take two sides as an example, do you think Leinster felt they got a draw as kind as Harlequins did? If there isn't much between the groups as you say.

    I think Leinster fans completely panicked and overreacted with their group. Yes it had Clermont in it, big deal, teams like ulster, ospreys, tigers, munster have always beaten them at home. Away was certainly a tougher fixture than away to Biarritz, but that's not too easy either.


  • #6324
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's a lot of sense in this post mixed with utter nonsense.
    Munster had a poor start to this campaign, yet were good enough to overcome it.
    Groups are seeded, there isn't much difference between them.
    Leagues have a top 4, then you are back to a knockout situation, this makes it a bit of a farce, if you top the league you should be the winner.

    I suggest you go and have a look at the groups for this years HEC.

    While the seeding system is good in theory in practice it is flawed. It doesn't take into account a teams current ability, but rather works based on past performance. This results in teams frequently being seeded too high or seeded too low. Clermont were a second seed this year which is ridiculous.

    And there is a massive difference between a 6 game pool and a 22 game league. That's why the HEC isn't just one big league to start off with instead of individual groups.


  • #6325
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    awec wrote: »
    I suggest you go and have a look at the groups for this years HEC.

    While the seeding system is good in theory in practice it is flawed. It doesn't take into account a teams current ability, but rather works based on past performance. This results in teams frequently being seeded too high or seeded too low. Clermont were a second seed this year which is ridiculous.

    And there is a massive difference between a 6 game pool and a 22 game league. That's why the HEC isn't just one big league to start off with instead of individual groups.

    Racing Métro will be a fourth seed next season...

    IMO domestic performance should be factored in somehow in the European rankings. While the rankings reflect the relative teams strength well in general, it only takes a few outliers to make a mess of it.


  • #6326
    Bridge93
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Virtually everywhere. Look at the previous poster's top 8.

    Not a sign of Toulouse in it, and rightly so.

    You are a f**king moron and the perfect example of the type of person that gives this thread a bad name. Go look at the Leinster thread and read what they're saying about people like you.
    You have given no reason to back up your claim either way and your points contradict themselves.
    Bradford made the league cup final. Are they the second best team in England?

    MOD: Banned


  • #6327
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    awec wrote: »
    I suggest you go and have a look at the groups for this years HEC.

    While the seeding system is good in theory in practice it is flawed. It doesn't take into account a teams current ability, but rather works based on past performance. This results in teams frequently being seeded too high or seeded too low. Clermont were a second seed this year which is ridiculous.

    And there is a massive difference between a 6 game pool and a 22 game league. That's why the HEC isn't just one big league to start off with instead of individual groups.

    But look at GAA, does the best team win the league ? They all go for the championship. H Cup is the same as the championship.

    If we had a proper league, with no playoffs, then yes, the best team wins it. Problem is, we don't have 1.


  • #6328
    opinionatedfan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭opinionatedfan


    Rightwing wrote: »
    But look at GAA, does the best team win the league ? They all go for the championship. H Cup is the same as the championship.

    If we had a proper league, with no playoffs, then yes, the best team wins it. Problem is, we don't have 1.

    you are talking absolute bollix


  • #6329
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,034 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Racing Métro will be a fourth seed next season...
    My point exactly!

    Seeding is a great theory, but until they can figure out how to account for how good a team is now it will be fundamentally flawed and result in difficult groups and easy groups.

    I'm sure we're all familiar with the old "group of death" cliché.


  • #6330
    Glass Prison 1214
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I think Leinster fans completely panicked and overreacted with their group. Yes it had Clermont in it, big deal, teams like ulster, ospreys, tigers, munster have always beaten them at home. Away was certainly a tougher fixture than away to Biarritz, but that's not too easy either.

    Clermont are a lot better now then they have been in past seasons, but since you seem to think they are beatable lets just see how you do against them because if they destroy you like I think they will and you start justifying it by saying they are unbeatable or whatever, I'll be quoting you on this post and how Leinster 'overreacted'.


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  • #6331
    Tox56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Rightwing wrote: »
    But look at GAA, does the best team win the league ? They all go for the championship. H Cup is the same as the championship.

    If we had a proper league, with no playoffs, then yes, the best team wins it. Problem is, we don't have 1.

    So none of the main European leagues are 'proper' leagues?


This discussion has been closed.
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