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Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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Comments

  • #1592
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Well, according to Margaret Thatcher.

    British cabinet minister Peter Mandelson stated in an interview and a conversation he had with Thatcher.

    “It was the day I was appointed Northern Ireland secretary and our paths crossed.

    “She came up to me and she said, ’I’ve got one thing to say to you, my boy … you can’t trust the Irish, they are all liars’, she said, ’liars, and that’s what you have to remember, so just don’t forget it’.

    “With that she waltzed off and that was my only personal exposure to her.”

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...ys-591549.html

    Well now, what do the Thatcher apologists have to say about this racist, arrogant and obnoxious woman? Imagine for example, if the comment was made about jewish people, arab people or black people, we would never hear the end of it.

    The same comment was mentioned on BBC Newsline, no doubt the Thatcher fan club will try and explain this away as well instead of admitting that she despised us as a people.


  • #1593
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
    Quote:
    Let me give one anecdote to which I can personally attest. In leaving office she became a “consultant” to US tobacco giant Phillip Morris. She immediately used her influence on behalf of Phillip Morris to persuade the FCO to lobby the Polish government to reduce the size of health warnings on Polish cigarette packets. Poland was applying to join the EU, and the Polish health warnings were larger than the EU stipulated size.

    I was the official on whose desk the instruction landed to lobby for lower health warnings. I refused to do it. My then Ambassador, Michael Llewellyn Smith (for whom I had and have great respect) came up with the brilliant diplomatic solution of throwing the instruction in the bin, but telling London we had done it.

    So as you drown in a sea of praise for Thatcher, remember this. She was prepared to promote lung cancer, for cash.

    Classy woman. :rolleyes:

    This is the PERFECT example of how people misrepresent Thatcher to suit their agenda.

    So she lobbied to have the Polish reduce the size of their health warnings on cigarette packaging.

    And that apparently EQUALS "promoting lung cancer for cash"????

    How in Gods name is reducing a warning saying Smoking is Dangerous equating to promoting lung cancer? You'd swear she went around with leaflets saying "lung cancer is amazing people, you should all smoke 60 a day to get it! Up Cancer!!".

    Same with Apartheid. She proposed and supported an internal solution yet now apparently supported the whole thing!!!

    I doubt the following will be read as reality does tend to undermine people bashing Thatcher,but she gave a very strong speech in January 1989 outlining a determination to tackle cancer. And no, whether a health warning in Poland is 12mm or 10mm won't change this speech happened nor the commitment she had at Government level.

    January 25th, 1989:
    First, the critical importance of early diagnosis and treatment. Treatment is most likely to succeed if the disease is detected early. We know, too, that those who do contract cancer can still be helped to lead a full life.

    I spoke a moment ago about the fear of cancer. People do fear cancer and this can stop them from speaking about their fears to their doctor or to their family. That means they do not get the help which is on offer or they do not get it early enough. This year is about breaking the silence and overcoming that fear.

    In this country, we have a full programme of events to that end at both national and local level and to help maintain the effort throughout the year I am happy to be able to announce today that the Government is making an extra £1 million available to the Health Education Authority in 1989, to enable it to expand its cancer prevention and education activities.

    As you know, screening also plays a major part in cancer prevention and in the United Kingdom we can be really rather proud that we were the first in the Community to have launched a comprehensive cervical screening programme and the first in the world to set up a nationalwide breast-screening programme. Women aged between twenty and sixty-four—sixty in Scotland—will be invited for cervical screening at least every five years. Women aged between fifty and sixty will be invited for breast cancer screening every three years.

    Planning is now well advanced for the establishment of the breast screening programme in all parts of the United Kingdom by 1991.

    My second point is that the way we live can often determined whether we put ourselves at greater risk of cancer and amongst other activities, the Health Education Authority will be expanding its advice against smoking and expanding its advice on healthy life-styles.

    We also need to emphasise, particularly to young people, the message that smoking kills. About 95 per cent of those who die from lung cancer are smokers and for most the habit is acquired before adulthood.

    I refer you to a piece of research done earlier this decade whose conclusion was that among an average 1,000 young adults who smoked cigarettes regularly, about six will be killed on the road—that is bad enough—but about 250 will be killed before their time by tobacco.

    Lung cancer deaths among women are increasing each year and teenage smoking by girls is still increasing—and both these trends we must strive to reverse....


  • #1594
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Lol at the Irish Thatcher fanboys. She thought you were a bunch of liars.

    So even if you ever got the chance to fawn at her face-to-face she would have thought your vomit-inducing gushing over her would have been an act.

    Truly truly pathetic.


  • #1595
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Answer what? I outlined what happened, your experience doesn't alter that.
    She deregulated the city, which allowed the US to become the dominant force in the financial sector. There was no built in oversight or monitoring and that led to a free for all of what can only be seen as greed which led to pressure on banking regulations etc etc. They all 'failed miserably' to regulate because they where too busy gorging.
    What we are seeing now is attempts to put the lid back on, the 'lid' Maggie took off. (and getting the least well off to pay for the excesses)

    Lol what do mean by deregulate!? That's the question I asked... Simply saying she deregulated is meaningless. Describe how she deregulated it? It was Labour who stripped the Bank of England of its Powers not Thatcher. It was the FSA which Labour set up which failed to regulate which led to the banking crisis. Trying to blame Thatcher is ridiculous.


  • #1596
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Lol at the Irish Thatcher fanboys. She thought you were a bunch of liars.

    So even if you ever got the chance to fawn at her face-to-face she would have thought your vomit-inducing gushing over her would have been an act.

    Truly truly pathetic.

    she was a malignant creature for sure.
    the world is a better place today now that she's departed.


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  • #1597
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Latchy wrote: »
    Now that she has been laid to rest ,this OTT no expense spared funeral might just be the final straw for many because with all the cutbacks seriously affecting not just people on benefits but many working people to ,the climate is right for major social change but it might take something similar to the London riots before we see any change .

    Get back in your box would ya. Major social change.. Are we going to give communism another go and hope it works out this time? The London riots were full of scumbags whose first port of call was to steal televisions and playstations.... Viva la revolution :rolleyes:


  • #1598
    Courtesy Flush
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Courtesy Flush


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Well, according to Margaret Thatcher.

    British cabinet minister Peter Mandelson stated in an interview and a conversation he had with Thatcher.

    “It was the day I was appointed Northern Ireland secretary and our paths crossed.

    “She came up to me and she said, ’I’ve got one thing to say to you, my boy … you can’t trust the Irish, they are all liars’, she said, ’liars, and that’s what you have to remember, so just don’t forget it’.

    “With that she waltzed off and that was my only personal exposure to her.”

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...ys-591549.html

    Well now, what do the Thatcher apologists have to say about this racist, arrogant and obnoxious woman? Imagine for example, if the comment was made about jewish people, arab people or black people, we would never hear the end of it.

    I would imagine she hated everyone who wasnt English. She hated the working class too so that includes many English people


  • #1599
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Lol at the Irish Thatcher fanboys. She thought you were a bunch of liars.

    So even if you ever got the chance to fawn at her face-to-face she would have thought your vomit-inducing gushing over her would have been an act.

    Truly truly pathetic.

    1. Lol at you for believing anything that comes out of Mandelsons mouth

    2. No one here is fawning over Thatcher... Just people refusing to jump on the leftist/republican bandwagon which is using the death of an old lady to score political points by making up BS.


    What is truly truly pathetic is people like you who doesn't have the decency to have some respect and keep your gob shut when a woman who didn't do a thing to you has just died. She wasn't fckin Hitler no matter how much some people want to paint her that way. There are lots of Irish in the UK who are successful because she made it a possibility for them to work places other than a building site.


  • #1600
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    space_man wrote: »
    she was a malignant creature for sure.
    the world is a better place today now that she's departed.

    No, the world is not a better place now it is deprived of an old senile lady who has done nothing plus or minus to this world in 2 decades, mainly because for some of that period she couldn't walk or remember her own name.

    Also i find it hugely ironic that you have consistently slated Thatcher and thanked posts slating her over her policies towards the Irish, the poor and others.

    Given you posted this:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83365422&postcount=6294
    poor people are poor because they are not very clever.
    i know this to be true. you only have to talk to any poor person to realise it.

    Stay classy.


  • #1601
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    wonderfullife wrote: »

    Also i find it hugely ironic that you have consistently slated Thatcher and thanked posts slating her over her policies towards the Irish, the poor and others.

    Given you posted this:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83365422&postcount=6294



    Stay classy.

    Lol... The hypocrisy


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  • #1602
    Courtesy Flush
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Courtesy Flush


    One thing is for sure. There would NEVER have been a peace process in Northern Ireland if Thatcher was involved. She even admitted after signing the Anglo-Irish agreement that the only reason she agreed was because "The Americans made me do it"


  • #1603
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    She wasn't fckin Hitler no matter how much some people want to paint her that way. There are lots of Irish in the UK who are successful because she made it a possibility for them to work places other than a building site

    Says it all right there! The Irish were only good enough after Thatch gave them a leg up to better work eh? Nothing to do with being better educated than someone from the UK!


  • #1604
    Mr Tibbs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Mr Tibbs


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    This is the PERFECT example of how people misrepresent Thatcher to suit their agenda.

    So she lobbied to have the Polish reduce the size of their health warnings on cigarette packaging.

    And that apparently EQUALS "promoting lung cancer for cash"????

    How in Gods name is reducing a warning saying Smoking is Dangerous

    January 25th, 1989:

    I'm open to offers from any of the big Tobacco Companies for a few hundred thou to lobby the Government to reduce the size of the warnings on cigarette packaging. Now I'm not promoting lung cancer I'm just interested in profit.


  • #1605
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Madam wrote: »
    She wasn't fckin Hitler no matter how much some people want to paint her that way. There are lots of Irish in the UK who are successful because she made it a possibility for them to work places other than a building site

    Says it all right there! The Irish were only good enough after Thatch gave them a leg up to better work eh? Nothing to do with being better educated than someone from the UK!

    She opened up opportunity for everyone.. especially in the city of london where you will find a huge amount of Irish working now. Why do people always have to try and twist something.. serious ships on shoulders.


  • #1606
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    This is the PERFECT example of how people misrepresent Thatcher to suit their agenda.

    So she lobbied to have the Polish reduce the size of their health warnings on cigarette packaging.

    And that apparently EQUALS "promoting lung cancer for cash"????

    She took large sums of money from a cigarette manufacturer to ensure warnings on packets were minimised.

    What do you think the knock-on effect of what she was doing led to? :rolleyes:


  • #1607
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Playboy wrote: »
    She opened up opportunity for everyone.. especially in the city of london where you will find a huge amount of Irish working now. Why do people always have to try and twist something.. serious ships on shoulders.

    Oh How could I forget about London - the centre of all our universes:(

    Ask someone from Scotland how much she helped them!


  • #1608
    Mr Tibbs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Mr Tibbs


    Playboy wrote: »
    She opened up opportunity for everyone.. especially in the city of london where you will find a huge amount of Irish working now. Why do people always have to try and twist something.. serious ships on shoulders.

    Chips can get big but ships can be enormous. :D


  • #1609
    purplepanda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    Harold MacMillan Former UK Prime Minister MP for Stockton & One Nation Conservative praised the miners during his speech in the House of Lords in 1984,

    "It breaks my heart to see—and I cannot interfere—what is happening in our country today. This terrible strike, by the best men in the world, who beat the Kaiser's and Hitler's armies and never gave in. It is pointless and we cannot afford that kind of thing. Then there is the growing division of Conservative prosperity in the south and the ailing north and Midlands. We used to have battles and rows but they were quarrels. Now there is a new kind of wicked hatred that has been brought in by different types of people"

    Thatcher even hated by traditional decent Tories!!! :pac:


  • #1610
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    No, the world is not a better place now it is deprived of an old senile lady who has done nothing plus or minus to this world in 2 decades, mainly because for some of that period she couldn't walk or remember her own name.


    Yeah, because that's the period of her life that defined her and caused so much debate.

    :confused:


  • #1611
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    purplepanda wrote: »
    Thatcher even hated by traditional decent Tories!!! :pac:

    You can't say that - don't you know she was a saint?:):mad:


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  • #1612
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    She took large sums of money from a cigarette manufacturer to ensure warnings on packets were minimised.

    What do you think the knock-on effect of what she was doing led to? :rolleyes:

    She took money to lobby for a smaller health warning on the packages.

    Lobby.

    I'd like to see some statistics on the effectiveness of health warnings on cigarette packages before i draw any conclusions. On a lay basis, you'd probably notice 1 inch health warning easier than a 3/4 of an inch health warning.

    I'll go out on a limb here and say the overall impact of the size of a health warning on a package is negligible. Nobody i know has ever cited "the size of the warning on the front of the pack" as a reason they gave up smoking.

    So, no, it doesn't "promote" cancer. And her speech i quoted showed she did as much, if not more, than any European leader in the 1980s to try address cancer and smoking.


  • #1613
    Mr Tibbs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Mr Tibbs


    Madam wrote: »
    You can't say that - don't you know she was a saint?:):mad:


    The patron saint of hatred. :rolleyes:


  • #1614
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Yeah, because that's the period of her life that defined her and caused so much debate.

    :confused:

    How is the world a "better place" today, by any metric, because an old lady has died?

    Whether any death can improve the world is dubious to my mind but in her specific case what does her dying do for the world to make it a better place?


  • #1615
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    She took large sums of money from a cigarette manufacturer to ensure warnings on packets were minimised.

    What do you think the knock-on effect of what she was doing led to? :rolleyes:

    the more we hear about this creature, the more we realise what a stain on humanity she was.


  • #1616
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Good and bad here:

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3158/Margaret-Thatcher-19252013.aspx


  • #1617
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    space_man wrote: »
    the more we hear about this creature, the more we realise what a stain on humanity she was.

    Coming from Mr Humanist here whose unpopular opinion was "poor people are poor because they are not very clever".

    Indeed.


  • #1618
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Coming from Mr Humanist here whose unpopular opinion was "poor people are poor because they are not very clever".

    Indeed.

    the word irony is lost on you isn't it?:o


  • #1619
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Playboy wrote: »
    1. Lol at you for believing anything that comes out of Mandelsons mouth

    So you're saying Mandelson just decided today was the day to tell everyone a big dirty lie - the day of Thatcher's funeral? Cool story bro.
    2. No one here is fawning over Thatcher...

    Oh they fucking are. Also, I have seen people you've described as 'leftist' say it wasn't so much what she did but the manner in which she did it that they despise (in Britain). Her policies in Ireland were moronic by any normal person's estimation.
    What is truly truly pathetic is people like you who doesn't have the decency to have some respect

    Thatcher has done nothing to earn my respect so you fanboys just have to suck it up that some of us don't buy into the bull**** canonization of your heroine.
    and keep your gob shut when a woman who didn't do a thing to you has just died.

    The world doesn't work like that anymore. I doff my cap to no one and keep my gob shut when I choose to not when thatcher fanboys say I should.
    There are lots of Irish in the UK who are successful because she made it a possibility for them to work places other than a building site.

    Bollocks. As has been pointed out to you above Irish people have gone to England and been successful because of their education and competency.
    keep your gob shut.

    Stop tugging your forelock and put your cap back on man.


  • #1620
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    space_man wrote: »
    the more we hear about this creature, the more we realise what a stain on humanity she was.

    I'd give up if I were you, in case people think you are poor!


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  • #1621
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    She took money to lobby for a smaller health warning on the packages.

    Lobby.

    I'd like to see some statistics on the effectiveness of health warnings on cigarette packages before i draw any conclusions. On a lay basis, you'd probably notice 1 inch health warning easier than a 3/4 of an inch health warning.

    I'll go out on a limb here and say the overall impact of the size of a health warning on a package is negligible. Nobody i know has ever cited "the size of the warning on the front of the pack" as a reason they gave up smoking.

    So, no, it doesn't "promote" cancer. And her speech i quoted showed she did as much, if not more, than any European leader in the 1980s to try address cancer and smoking.

    So cigarette manufacturers paid her large sums of money because they believed what she was doing would make no difference to their sales? :rolleyes:


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