Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

Nodin · 14-04-2013 11:07AM

true wrote: »

Nobody said ............ be justified in having tea with him? Yes, I think.

You said all that guff before. Nobody is buying it.

true · 14-04-2013 11:22AM

deep down everyone knows its true, and you are not able to contradict one fact. You do not even read it, only the fist and last bit, as was shown before when you were ignorant of some facts.:)

n.b re my new point about Gerry Adams, who many believe to have been the leader of PIRA in Belfast, and one of those who abducted Jean McColville. Would a British p.m. be justified in having tea with him? I think yes.

Nodin · 14-04-2013 11:32AM

true wrote: »

deep down everyone knows its true, and you are not able to contradict one fact........

It's the same oul crap that you've said multiple times and its been refuted at length by a number of people. You just ignore them and yammer it out again though. You employ the same tactic on most threads you arrive on.

TwoShedsJackson · 14-04-2013 11:38AM

true wrote: »

Maggie sat down and had tea with Gorbachev during the cold war, invited him to London....and the next year the Berlin wall came down. Enough said about one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century.

Two events with absolutely no connection whatsoever.

NTMK · 14-04-2013 11:46AM

true wrote: »

deep down everyone knows its true, and you are not able to contradict one fact. You do not even read it, only the fist and last bit, as was shown before when you were ignorant of some facts.:)

n.b re my new point about Gerry Adams, who many believe to have been the leader of PIRA in Belfast, and one of those who abducted Jean McColville. Would a British p.m. be justified in having tea with him? I think yes.

where was the uk polictical interest when she called for pinochet's release in 1998?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/304516.stm

Her disgusting display of support for the piece of **** insults every single Chilean that had to endure his dictatorship

and then to say he brought democracy to Chile. :rolleyes:

its disturbing that there are people that are so willingly able to sweep her support of this war criminal underneath the carpet to hide the fact she wasn't anything more than a morally bankrupt pathetic excuse for a human being

true · 14-04-2013 11:54AM

You know as much about politics in Souh America as someone in Chile knows about Gerry Adams.
You still have not answered the point about Gerry Adams, who many believe to have been the leader of PIRA in Belfast, and one of those who abducted Jean McColville. Would a British p.m. not be justified in having tea with him?

Nodin · 14-04-2013 11:55AM

true wrote: »

You know as much about politics in Souh America as someone in Chile knows about Gerry Adams.
You still have not answered the point about Gerry Adams, who many believe to have been the leader of PIRA in Belfast, and one of those who abducted Jean McColville. Would a British p.m. not be justified in having tea with him?

Same oul guff - Now with added red herring

true · 14-04-2013 11:59AM

Nodin wrote: »

Same oul guff - Now with added red herring

same auld guff, same auld personal attack, same auld evasion of the question.

NTMK · 14-04-2013 12:09PM

true wrote: »

You know as much about politics in Souh America as someone in Chile knows about Gerry Adams.
You still have not answered the point about Gerry Adams, who many believe to have been the leader of PIRA in Belfast, and one of those who abducted Jean McColville. Would a British p.m. not be justified in having tea with him?

yes the british pm would be justified having tea with gerry adams as like it or lump it he is relevant to UK politics

how was Pinochet relevant post Falklands and esp post 1990 relevant to uk politics

and as for the accusation of me not knowing about south american politics :rolleyes:
you dont know jack **** about me

Rascasse · 14-04-2013 12:11PM

Thatcher had tea with him as a private individual, therefore had no relevance to UK politics (esp. as Labour were in power by then).

true · 14-04-2013 12:19PM

NTMK wrote: »

yes the british pm would be justified having tea with gerry adams as like it or lump it he is relevant to UK politics

Yes the British pm would be justified in having tea with our TD for Louth, who is widely believed to have been the leader of the PIRA in Belfast and the abduction of Jean McColville , and ironically her disappearance in Co. Louth.

If the British p.m. - or retired British p.m. - wants to have tea with someone from South America who has saved thousands of British lives, I would not think it would be the worst crime ever to have that cup of tea. Do not forget
"Chile was officially neutral during the Falklands War, but Chile's Westinghouse long range radar that was deployed in the south of the country gave the British task force early warning of Argentinian air attacks. This allowed British ships and troops in the war zone to take defensive ation. Margaret Thatcher, the British prime minister at the time of the war, has said that the day the radar was taken out of service for overdue maintenance was the day Argentinian fighter-bombers bombed the troopships Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram, leaving 53 dead and many injured. According to Chilean Junta and former Air Force commander Fernando Matthei, Chilean support included military intelligence gathering, radar surveillance, allowing British aircraft to operate with Chilean colours, and facilitating the safe return of British special forces, among other forms of assistance.[49] In April and May 1982, a squadron of mothballed British Hawker Hunter fighter-bombers departed for Chile, arriving on 22 May and allowing the Chilean Air Force to reform the No. 9 "Las Panteras Negras" Squadron. A further consignment of three frontier surveillance and shipping reconnaissance Canberras left for Chile in October. Some authors have speculated that Argentina might have won the war had the military felt able to employ the elite VIth and VIIIth Mountain Brigades, which remained sitting in the Andes guarding against possible Chilean incursions."

Its not as if she went to the Chilean embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Pinochet, like DeValera did when he went to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, is it?

john.han · 14-04-2013 12:28PM

true wrote: »

Maggie sat down and had tea with Gorbachev during the cold war, invited him to London....and the next year the Berlin wall came down. Enough said about one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century.

That happened in spite of Maggie's opposition to German re-unification!

Happyman42 · 14-04-2013 12:28PM

Duck Soup wrote: »

I'm genuinely astonished that anyone should try to represent Pinochet and his regime as a democrat and force for good. America was quite happy to see the democratically elected Allende forced out in a coup, as it allowed them to use Chile as a petri dish for the newly popular monetarist theories. Milton Friedman even went down there to chinwag and give him a few pointers. That was Pinochet's use to western powers - a right-winger friendly to America and a sap willing to try neoliberal economic policies in the raw.

It is the same American self interest that will see The Falklands ceasing to be a colony of the British. The Americans are playing a very cagey diplomatic game at the minute. What should scare the bejaysus out of Falklanders is the recent trend in American foreign relations to refer to the islands as the Malvinas. If I was them, I wouldn't be investing in any long term projects, hoping to be there for the payoff!

Re the Gerry Adams thing, of course she should have been inviting Gerry to tea and negotiating with him, what she shouldn't have been doing is speaking out of both sides of her mouth and being a self interested hypocrite, that hypocrisy in all their dealings at hme and abroad is the greatest treachery ever perpretrated by British establishment on it's on people and has sent and continues to send many good and brave British men and women to their graves.

true · 14-04-2013 12:36PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

It is the same American self interest that will see The Falklands ceasing to be a colony of the British.

Its nothing to do with the Americans. The Falkland islanders had a referendum there and all but three people voted to stay with the UK. The UK and US have a special bond and special relationshiip in worldwide affairs going back generations so do not let the cuurent administration in the White house fool you - they have other, bigger problems to worry about, as has the average American.

NTMK · 14-04-2013 12:38PM

true wrote: »

Yes the British pm would be justified in having tea with our TD for Louth, who is widely believed to have been the leader of the PIRA in Belfast and the abduction of Jean McColville , and ironically her disappearance in Co. Louth.

nope its not the fact that he is a louth T.D more to do with the fact he is the president of sinn fein one of the largest polical partys in northern ireland

If the British p.m. - or retired British p.m. - wants to have tea with someone from South America who has saved thousands of British lives, I would not think it would be the worst crime ever to have that cup of tea.

she called for his release when he was charged with various crime including torture and murder at a time when the pair were politically irrelevant. bit more than just having a cup of tea

Its not as if she went to the Chilean embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Pinochet, like DeValera did when he went to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, is it?

I consider Dev to be a piece of **** also

true · 14-04-2013 01:04PM

so being loyal and having a cup of tea when retired with the man who saved thoudands of British (inc some Irish ) lives and who brought democracy to Chile is the worst crime you think the leader of a G7 nation was ever involved in, and a worse crime than

(a) abducting Jean McColville / being involved in the terrorist organisation involved in the bloody Friday, La Mon restaurant bombings etc

(b) the then serving Taoiseach going to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, as the world was witnessing the horror of the concentration camps not long liberated?

Nodin · 14-04-2013 01:06PM

true wrote: »

so being loyal and having a cup of tea when retired with the man who saved thoudands of British (inc some Irish ) lives and who brought democracy to Chile

Ignoring posts made yet again. He left power because his generals refused to back him against the result of the referendum.

karma_ · 14-04-2013 01:16PM

true wrote: »

so being loyal and having a cup of tea when retired with the man who saved thoudands of British (inc some Irish ) lives and who brought democracy to Chile is the worst crime you think the leader of a G7 nation was ever involved in, and a worse crime than

(a) abducting Jean McColville / being involved in the terrorist organisation involved in the bloody Friday, La Mon restaurant bombings etc

(b) the then serving Taoiseach going to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, as the world was witnessing the horror of the concentration camps not long liberated?

The contradictory nature of your arguments is directly proportional to the length of your posts.

I for one can't wait to see what you bring up next!

NTMK · 14-04-2013 01:17PM

true wrote: »

so being loyal and having a cup of tea when retired with the man who saved thoudands of British (inc some Irish ) lives and who brought democracy to Chile

he was responsible for the deaths and torture of thousands of civilians and chile was a ****ing democracy before his junta outed the elected government

what ****ing part of that do you not understand?

I can understand dealing with pinochet during the falklands was a necessary evil during the falklands as he had assets the British needed (radar, etc).

continuing to be loyal and attempting to use your political influence to try and help the bastard avoid being punished for his crimes against humanity is disgusting

I cant stand adams but dealing with him is a necessary evil of keeping the peace in the north

true · 14-04-2013 01:22PM

NTMK wrote: »

continuing to be loyal and attempting to use your political influence

retired elderly politicians do not have much real influence.

Most of the young posters posing about Chile know as much about South American politics as the South Americans know about Adams.

true · 14-04-2013 01:23PM

NTMK wrote: »

I cant stand adams but dealing with him is a necessary evil of keeping the peace in the north

I agree, that was my point.

NTMK · 14-04-2013 01:25PM

true wrote: »

I agree, that was my point.

what was the benefit of supporting Pinochet in 1998?

Nodin · 14-04-2013 01:28PM

true wrote: »

retired elderly politicians do not have much real influence.

Most of the young posters posing about Chile know as much about South American politics as the South Americans know about Adams.

Given the crap you've been spouting about him and democracy, thats a bit rich

The formerly top-secret documents posted by the independent U.S. National
Security Archive on Friday also show U.S. officials warning Chilean leaders
against violence if Pinochet tried to use force to stay in power.

But Pinochet, "planned to do whatever was necessary to stay in
power," just a day before the Oct. 5, 1988, referendum, according to a
Defense Intelligence Agency document based on information from a Chilean Air
Force officer.

"Pinochet reportedly told advisors: 'I'm not leaving, no matter what,'" the
document said.

The documents also show that U.S. officials and agencies backed the
anti-Pinochet campaign, even though the U.S. government had worked to undermine
the socialist administration of Salvador Allende that Pinochet overthrew in a
1973 coup and initially supported his government.

They portray Pinochet as furious after the vote results

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/02/23/report-chiles-pinochet-wanted-anti-vote-violence/1941493/

true · 14-04-2013 01:32PM

NTMK wrote: »

what was the benefit of supporting Pinochet in 1998?

she was an elderly wonan then, about 8 years out of power. I know she has had dementia / alzimers for years...not sure when it started. I never said she was perfect or that every decision she ever made was 100% correct. However I suspect there was a lot more to it than meets the eye. And if you ever read noraid propoganda about N. Ireland you would wonder about some of the info some republicans here believe about places in South America they could not even find on a map.

Zebra3 · 14-04-2013 01:34PM

true wrote: »

so being loyal and having a cup of tea when retired with the man who saved thoudands of British (inc some Irish ) lives and who brought democracy to Chile

Clueless.

Utterly clueless.

true · 14-04-2013 01:36PM

NTMK wrote: »

what was the benefit of supporting Pinochet in 1998?

The elderly woman was 8 years out of power then.:rolleyes:

At least in 2006 when Pinochet died, she was not like our serving Taoiseach in 1945 going to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, as the world was witnessing the horror of the concentration camps not long liberated!

My name is URL · 14-04-2013 01:38PM

true wrote: »

The elderly woman was 8 years out of power then.:rolleyes:

At least in 2006 when Pinochet died, she was not like our serving Taoiseach in 1945 going to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, as the world was witnessing the horror of the concentration camps not long liberated!

Weren't you the one decrying whataboutery a few pages back? How many more times are you going to mention de Valera's actions in a vein attempt to change the subject?

karma_ · 14-04-2013 01:39PM

true wrote: »

The elderly woman was 8 years out of power then.:rolleyes:

At least in 2006 when Pinochet died, she was not like our serving Taoiseach in 1945 going to the German embassy and expressed condolences on the death of Hitler, as the world was witnessing the horror of the concentration camps not long liberated!

So when Gerry Adams gets old your opinion of him will automatically switch?

Do you realise how utterly ridiculous you sound?

karma_ · 14-04-2013 01:41PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Weren't you the one decrying whataboutery a few pages back? How many more times are you going to mention de Valera's actions in a vein attempt to change the subject?

Which isn't even the biggest contradiction of his posts. He berates those who were not alive who criticise Thatcher, but does exactly that himself and criticises de Valera. Comical.

true · 14-04-2013 01:43PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Weren't you the one decrying whataboutery a few pages back?

Its putting things in context. Having a cup of tea with someone 8 years after you leave power is different to ....

Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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