Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

Deano7788 · 12-04-2013 02:16PM

.ak wrote: »

I'm in work, any chance of a gist of what he says?

He basically says 1) he didn't get enough gametime due to the reintegration of the internationals and 2) the players currently in the squad (I'm guessing the likes of TOD) were playing too well to leave out of match day squads for him.

Oh, and whoop, 1000 posts!

totallegend · 12-04-2013 02:17PM

Deano7788 wrote: »

He basically says 1) he didn't get enough gametime due to the reintegration of the internationals and 2) the players currently in the squad (I'm guessing the likes of TOD) were playing too well to leave out of match day squads for him.

i.e. Penney doesn't rate him.

Deano7788 · 12-04-2013 02:18PM

totallegend wrote: »

i.e. Penney doesn't rate him.

Yep, it did sound a bit like that to me.

.ak · 12-04-2013 02:19PM

Deano7788 wrote: »

He basically says 1) he didn't get enough gametime due to the reintegration of the internationals and 2) the players currently in the squad (I'm guessing the likes of TOD) were playing too well to leave out of match day squads for him.

Oh, and whoop, 1000 posts!

Congrats! Now you may remove the Stone of Shame....

Attach the Stone of Triumph!!

jm08 · 12-04-2013 02:20PM

.ak wrote: »

I'm in work, any chance of a gist of what he says?

Timing mostly:

Couldn't register him initially because he wasn't in the country (playing for another club). Then Coughlan got injured and they delisted him as they thought he would be out for much longer than he was. Then Coughlan had a quick recovery and they had to relist him in Dec. CJ broke his hand in his first match for Munster. Then internationals coming back and needing gametime with Munster as well as some of the local boys putting their hands up, he got left out.

Mostly down to him not being here for the start of the season and getting injured at the wrong time.

As far as I know he is on the Panel tonight on RTE Q&A in Thomond.

phog · 12-04-2013 02:54PM

totallegend wrote: »

i.e. Penney doesn't rate him.

Posters have previously explained and now Penney himself has explained why he's missed out on the H/cup squad and why he's missed out on some of the Pro12 games and I really dont see how you still maintain he's not rated.

thomond2006 · 12-04-2013 02:58PM

phog wrote: »

Posters have previously explained and now Penney himself has explained why he's missed out on the H/cup squad and why he's missed out on some of the Pro12 games and I really dont see how you still maintain he's not rated.

If Penney in fact didn't rate him, he wouldn't have said it any case (nor should he!). I'm not accusing Penney of lying or anything, but still!

jm08 · 12-04-2013 03:08PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Penney in fact didn't rate him, he wouldn't have said it any case (nor should he!). I'm not accusing Penney of lying or anything, but still!

I don't think its Penney's style to write off a young player after only 6 games (and 3 tries) for Munster.

phog · 12-04-2013 03:17PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Penney in fact didn't rate him, he wouldn't have said it any case (nor should he!). I'm not accusing Penney of lying or anything, but still!

But still!!! what exactly does that mean?

totallegend · 12-04-2013 03:19PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Penney in fact didn't rate him, he wouldn't have said it any case (nor should he!). I'm not accusing Penney of lying or anything, but still!

OK, I can see how they can explain away why he's not in the HC squad. It's a bit of a stretch given that, even with injuries and without the addition of Dineen, there'd be plenty of cover so if Penney wanted Stander in his HC squad, he'd have made it work. (Or he could just have held on to Stringer and then not needed Sheridan)

What does not stand up to any scrutiny is the fact that Stander has not featured at all in recent months, in Rabo or HC.

I'm sorry, but this guy was signed to be a starter in the first team and he's found himself not only behind Coughlan, TOD and POM (a good back-row) for the first team but also behind Niall Ronan, Sean Dougall and Paddy Butler in the supporting cast.

It's not a ringing endorsement, whatever way you look at it.

Sabre0001 · 12-04-2013 03:19PM

One of those mysteries of the universe that we may have to wait until next season to decipher.

phog · 12-04-2013 03:25PM

totallegend wrote: »

OK, I can see how they can explain away why he's not in the HC squad. It's a bit of a stretch given that, even with injuries and without the addition of Dineen, there'd be plenty of cover so if Penney wanted Stander in his HC squad, he'd have made it work. (Or he could just have held on to Stringer and then not needed Sheridan)

What does not stand up to any scrutiny is the fact that Stander has not featured at all in recent months, in Rabo or HC.

I'm sorry, but this guy was signed to be a starter in the first team and he's found himself not only behind Coughlan, TOD and POM (a good back-row) for the first team but also behind Niall Ronan, Sean Dougall and Paddy Butler in the supporting cast.

It's not a ringing endorsement, whatever way you look at it.

I cant listen to the clip but I heard one last night (not sure if they're the exact same) and he explained that he's being trying different combos that he may need for the h/cup knockout games. Which sounds reasonable to me.

The backrow that played last Sunday has had only 2 other starts together this season and that was back in our last two H/cup games. Ronan, Dougall and Butler are in the H/cup squad and have been since before Stander arrived to Munster so you'd expect them to be getting gametime at this end of the season.

molloyjh · 12-04-2013 03:26PM

Deano7788 wrote: »

He basically says 1) he didn't get enough gametime due to the reintegration of the internationals and 2) the players currently in the squad (I'm guessing the likes of TOD) were playing too well to leave out of match day squads for him.

Oh, and whoop, 1000 posts!

Silly question, but what internationals were keeping him out of the jersey? POM is the only one I can think of.

Also I'd have thought that squad management is an important part of what a coach does. While some players might be playing well you would still rotate to a degree to keep up the competition for jerseys and keep everyone fresh. Surely you could rotate the likes of POM, TOD, Coughlan, DOC2 and Stander to some degree? This will be Munster 5th league game since he last played (off the bench) and POM wasn't available for 2 of those. Paddy Butler, Sean Dougal and Niall Ronan have all featured since. It does seem strange tbf.

molloyjh · 12-04-2013 03:28PM

phog wrote: »

I cant listen to the clip but I heard one last night (not sure if they're the exact same) and he explained that he's being trying different combos that he may need for the h/cup knockout games. Which sounds reasonable to me.

The backrow that played last Sunday has had only 2 other starts together this season and that was back in our last two H/cup games. Ronan, Dougall and Butler are in the H/cup squad and have been since before Stander arrived to Munster so you'd expect them to be getting gametime at this end of the season.

Well that maybe makes some more sense I suppose. Were Munster limited to the changes they could make the the HEC squad, i.e. were they prevented from swapping out Ronan for Stander for example?

phog · 12-04-2013 04:07PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Well that maybe makes some more sense I suppose. Were Munster limited to the changes they could make the the HEC squad, i.e. were they prevented from swapping out Ronan for Stander for example?

Three players could be added, not certain but fairly sure you can't swap out a player for the knockout stages.

Deano7788 · 12-04-2013 04:09PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Silly question, but what internationals were keeping him out of the jersey? POM is the only one I can think of.

Also I'd have thought that squad management is an important part of what a coach does. While some players might be playing well you would still rotate to a degree to keep up the competition for jerseys and keep everyone fresh. Surely you could rotate the likes of POM, TOD, Coughlan, DOC2 and Stander to some degree? This will be Munster 5th league game since he last played (off the bench) and POM wasn't available for 2 of those. Paddy Butler, Sean Dougal and Niall Ronan have all featured since. It does seem strange tbf.

He's the only backrow alright (although TOD was called up to train)

I agree with you about the squad management as well. I think he should have at least come off the bench once or twice. It didn't sound very convincing imo. Something just seems off about it. Then again I could be completely wrong and maybe it's just to give all the backrows in the HC squad as much gametime as possible.

molloyjh wrote: »

Well that maybe makes some more sense I suppose. Were Munster limited to the changes they could make the the HEC squad, i.e. were they prevented from swapping out Ronan for Stander for example?

You didn't have to take anyone out. You could add 3, but 1 had to be a front row forward. Munster added James Cronin, Cathal Sheridan and Ivan Dineen.

thomond2006 · 12-04-2013 04:10PM

phog wrote: »

But still!!! what exactly does that mean?

It's obvious what it means I would have thought. As it stands I believe Penney but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be question marks. If Stander doesn't play next week then those question marks will be revisited, since a second team will be sent to Dragons. If Stander doesn't make the second team then IMO Penney believes Stander isn't worth playing.

Mes deux centimes...

jm08 · 12-04-2013 04:24PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's obvious what it means I would have thought. As it stands I believe Penney but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be question marks. If Stander doesn't play next week then those question marks will be revisited, since a second team will be sent to Dragons. If Stander doesn't make the second team then IMO Penney believes Stander isn't worth playing.

Mes deux centimes...

I think it will all depend on who he wants on the bench for Clermont - probably Ronan if he is fit as he is experienced.

Stander is in the 'A' squad, so they will probably get some time together because they have their semi on 26th April.

phog · 12-04-2013 04:37PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's obvious what it means I would have thought. As it stands I believe Penney but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be question marks. If Stander doesn't play next week then those question marks will be revisited, since a second team will be sent to Dragons. If Stander doesn't make the second team then IMO Penney believes Stander isn't worth playing.

Mes deux centimes...

If it was obvious I wouldn't have asked.

As for next week, Penney may want to try out options that may be required v Clermont. IMHO, it would be foolish to try and determine how Penney rates CJ based on who he plays in a game so close to a H/cup semifinal

thomond2006 · 12-04-2013 04:38PM

phog wrote: »

If it was obvious I wouldn't have asked.

As for next week, Penney may want to try out options that may be required v Clermont. IMHO, it would be foolish to try and determine how Penney rates CJ based on who he plays in a game so close to a H/cup semifinal

Nice holiday for CJ then.

phog · 12-04-2013 04:42PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nice holiday for CJ then.

To be honest that's a cheap shot and kind of surprising from you.

thomond2006 · 12-04-2013 04:48PM

phog wrote: »

To be honest that's a cheap shot and kind of surprising from you.

You just take my posts a bit too seriously as usual! It was a joke, not a cheap shot. I knew you'd take it the way you did, you're too easy to wind up!

I'd say CJ didn't expect a situation like this, he was in the wider Springbok training squad at one stage so he was highly rated there. He probably would have expected to at least be on the bench when the first choice team plays. Unfortunately that hand injury couldn't have come at a worse time. That, coupled with Coughlan's early return to action, put paid to his opportunity.

Let's take the positives, assuming Penney is telling the truth which as it stands I subscribe to. CJ can go through the motions until the end of this season, get a full pre-season in and then be all guns blazing for next season. However, pressure is on from there.

Mahatma Geansai · 12-04-2013 06:44PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

You just take my posts a bit too seriously as usual! It was a joke, not a cheap shot. I knew you'd take it the way you did, you're too easy to wind up!

I'd say CJ didn't expect a situation like this, he was in the wider Springbok training squad at one stage so he was highly rated there. He probably would have expected to at least be on the bench when the first choice team plays. Unfortunately that hand injury couldn't have come at a worse time. That, coupled with Coughlan's early return to action, put paid to his opportunity.

Let's take the positives, assuming Penney is telling the truth which as it stands I subscribe to. CJ can go through the motions until the end of this season, get a full pre-season in and then be all guns blazing for next season. However, pressure is on from there.

So you're saying you were trolling?

The Stander situation makes perfect sense to anyone with the capacity to consider the facts and form rational observations. Of course he will be disappointed, but I'm sure he will understand the situation and could well use it as motivation to make himself undroppable next season.

thomond2006 · 12-04-2013 07:06PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

So you're saying you were trolling?

The Stander situation makes perfect sense to anyone with the capacity to consider the facts and form rational observations. Of course he will be disappointed, but I'm sure he will understand the situation and could well use it as motivation to make himself undroppable next season.

Yes I'm an evil troll.

The Stander situation makes sense to a point for me. I expect him to be involved in the Dragons match, the whole first choice backrow will probably be rested and with Dougall injured we'll need Stander to play.

Munstermissy · 12-04-2013 07:48PM

I was on the Heathrow to Shannon flight last Sunday night after game. Was speaking with one of the fitness guys with Munster. He said CJ wasn't added to fit James Coughlan in. Munster didn't think Coughlan would have been back from injury as soon as he did and that was why CJ was omitted. Don't think he had a reason to lie.

Mahatma Geansai · 12-04-2013 07:48PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yes I'm an evil troll.

The Stander situation makes sense to a point for me. I expect him to be involved in the Dragons match, the whole first choice backrow will probably be rested and with Dougall injured we'll need Stander to play.

I think he might get a shot to keep morale up, but its more important for players in the HEC squad to play.

Deano7788 · 12-04-2013 07:56PM

Munstermissy wrote: »

I was on the Heathrow to Shannon flight last Sunday night after game. Was speaking with one of the fitness guys with Munster. He said CJ wasn't added to fit James Coughlan in. Munster didn't think Coughlan would have been back from injury as soon as he did and that was why CJ was omitted. Don't think he had a reason to lie.

Yeah but they had another opportunity to add him before the quarter final and chose not to do so. That's what people are wondering about.

athtrasna · 12-04-2013 08:20PM

Deano7788 wrote: »

Yeah but they had another opportunity to add him before the quarter final and chose not to do so. That's what people are wondering about.

But they didn't really. Earls, Zebo & Dougie were all registered but injured, hence Dineen. 1 of the additions had to be a front row. And the substitution that was essential was the addition of Cathal Sheridan (which wouldn't have been necessary except for the Stringer balls up). Sheridan is way more vital than Stander in the scheme of things.

phog · 12-04-2013 08:20PM

Deano7788 wrote: »

Yeah but they had another opportunity to add him before the quarter final and chose not to do so. That's what people are wondering about.

...and that has been explained too. There's nothing in it.

phog · 12-04-2013 09:07PM

phog wrote: »

...and that has been explained too. There's nothing in it.

To labour the point, the London branch of the supporters club tweeted a clip of Penney explaining the situation re CJ. CJ's fiancée just retweeted that link.
@Jean-Marie Neethling

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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