Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

Lingua Franca · 12-04-2013 04:35PM

I had an eedjit friend ask me yesterday if the owners of the song could sue the BBC for not playing it... :rolleyes:

paddy147 · 12-04-2013 04:35PM

Rascasse wrote: »

Because it is in bad taste. Some will play it, some won't, and BBC will play a clip after a news item explaining the situation. Last year radio stations decided not to play some Kesha song with a lyric about dying young after the Sandy Hook shooting. Even though it wasn't directly connected it too was considered in bad taste and insensitive, so it's not a first.

Thanks for that.:)

Its a good original song with a nice little catch to it too.:)

Grandpa Hassan · 12-04-2013 04:37PM

Madam wrote: »

Definitive No -!!!

Did she think of the lives she ruined with her meglomanical policies - I think not:rolleyes:

Well, this whole thing is going round in circles now, so not sure there is any value in debatibng the same stuff as 10 pages ago, and 10 pages before that, but there are very many, myself included, that think that her domestic economic policies upon taking office were not only right, but vital in turning around what was a bankrupt basketcase of a country

Dozen Wicked Words · 12-04-2013 04:38PM

Its a state funeral in virtually all but name, disgusting waste of money, ? 8 million. The Queen hasn't been to a former Prime Ministers funeral since Churchill.

They paid the MPs over 3 grand each to go back to work early to say how great she was, for over 7 hours. Glenda Jackson booed and jeered for having the bottle to say what all/most Labour MPs should have said if they went.
Parliament paid their last respects to Churchill in a couple of hours.

Now the Mail and Telegraph who have supposedly championed the need for free speech don't want the BBC to have it. And the BBC have capitulated to their demands not to play a song taken from a musical staring Judy Garland.

Possibly the best interview of Thatcher I've seen about the illegal sinking of the Belgrano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho4mNsZE9K4

Madam · 12-04-2013 04:40PM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this whole thing is going round in circles now, so not sure there is any value in debatibng the same stuff as 10 pages ago, and 10 pages before that, but there are very many, myself included, that think that her domestic economic policies upon taking office were not only right, but vital in turning around what was a bankrupt basketcase of a country

Doesn't make her a nice person though:p

Fratton Fred · 12-04-2013 04:51PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Possibly the best interview of Thatcher I've seen about the illegal sinking of the BelgranoE]

Yawn.

Happyman42 · 12-04-2013 05:11PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yawn.

Democracy in action boring you again Fred?

Dozen Wicked Words · 12-04-2013 05:13PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yawn.

Don't like little old Geography teachers Fred?

The interview is interesting, if you want, you can pretend the word "illegal" isn't quoted, does not detract from the interview, or the points made by journalists in the clip.

Happyman42 · 12-04-2013 05:16PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Don't like little old Geography teachers Fred?

:D

He only has eyes (and ears) for one matron. :P

bodice ripper · 12-04-2013 05:25PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Democracy in action boring you again Fred?

Could be yawning because the Belgrano sinking has been dealt with repeatedly in the thread...

Happyman42 · 12-04-2013 05:33PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

Could be yawning because the Belgrano sinking has been dealt with repeatedly in the thread...

Yes, it has been 'dealt' with everywhere except in The Hague. But just like Bloody Sunday the truth will eventually out about the Belgrano too.

bodice ripper · 12-04-2013 05:37PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes, it has been 'dealt' with everywhere except in The Hague. But just like Bloody Sunday the truth will eventually out about the Belgrano too.

I read about it in some detail. It wasn't illegal. Sorry about that.

edit: likening it to Bloody Sunday kinda shows an agenda, tbh.

Fratton Fred · 12-04-2013 05:40PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Don't like little old Geography teachers Fred?

Dont like irrational comments with absolutely no foundation in fact, especially ones that have been put to bed several times.

Rascasse · 12-04-2013 05:40PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes, it has been 'dealt' with everywhere except in The Hague. But just like Bloody Sunday the truth will eventually out about the Belgrano too.

The truth is already out. It may not be the truth you want, but it is out nonetheless.

Dozen Wicked Words · 12-04-2013 05:55PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Dont like irrational comments with absolutely no foundation in fact, especially ones that have been put to bed several times.

You are right, I had no basis of fact on which to query your liking or otherwise of Geography teachers. It was not rational. Accept my apologies.

Seachmall · 12-04-2013 06:00PM

/b/ does Margaret Thatcher.

paddy147 · 12-04-2013 06:03PM

Even RTE 6.1 News have just played the "Ding Dong" Song.

Fratton Fred · 12-04-2013 06:08PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

You are right, I had no basis of fact on which to query your liking or otherwise of Geography teachers. It was not rational. Accept my apologies.

Err, what exactly has a geography teacher got to do with a straightforward act in a conflict?

Dozen Wicked Words · 12-04-2013 06:14PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Err, what exactly has a geography teacher got to do with a straightforward act in a conflict?

It was in the video, as I said in my edited reply, even if you feel the sinking of the Belgrano was legal, it was still an excellent interview, and story. It challenged Thatcher in a way she wasn't used to, she was flustered and made for interesting television. Presumed you had seen the video and that's why you yawned.

Spook_ie · 12-04-2013 06:27PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

Could be yawning because the Belgrano sinking has been dealt with repeatedly in the thread...

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes, it has been 'dealt' with everywhere except in The Hague. But just like Bloody Sunday the truth will eventually out about the Belgrano too.

In 2012 the President of Argentina Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner referred to the sinking of the Belgrano as a "war crime". During that year, the Argentine government was also reported to be considering filing a lawsuit at the International Court of Justice against the UK regarding the event. However, the Argentine Navy has historically held the view that the sinking was a legitimate act of war.

Until such time as further evidence is produced by whatever side then it has been put to bed, reiterating the mantra " The Belgrano was a war crime" time and time again lessens any argument and disrespects the dead on both sides

BarryLyndon · 12-04-2013 06:28PM

People are fascinating.

I genuinely can't decide whether the volume of people in this forum who are working themselves into a lather over this (whether pro or con) is either pathetic or hilariously, or both.

I mean people are fuming over British tax payers paying 20p or whatever to bury someone acknowledged, rightly or wrongly, as the most important force in British politics since WW2.

It's gas.

Lingua Franca · 12-04-2013 06:31PM

Ponting had been charged with leaking an internal MoD document concerning the General Belgrano, the Argentinian cruiser which British forces sank during the 1982 Falklands War, killing 360 people.

The government line had been that the Belgrano was threatening British lives when it was sunk. But the document leaked by Ponting indicated it was sailing out of the exclusion zone. Its publication was a huge embarrassment for Lady Thatcher's government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/216868.stm

dxhound2005 · 12-04-2013 06:33PM

Policeman resigns after he was identified as the person who wrote not nice things on the internet about Thatcher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/12/police-officer-margaret-thatcher-tweets

tayto lover · 12-04-2013 06:37PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Policeman resigns after he was identified as the person who wrote not nice things on the internet about Thatcher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/12/police-officer-margaret-thatcher-tweets

Is he not entitled to his opinion?

Fratton Fred · 12-04-2013 06:38PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

It was in the video, as I said in my edited reply, even if you feel the sinking of the Belgrano was legal, it was still an excellent interview, and story. It challenged Thatcher in a way she wasn't used to, she was flustered and made for interesting television. Presumed you had seen the video and that's why you yawned.

I've watched it now, we could do with her on rte!

There are points to note here, firstly, the Belgrano was part of a pincer movement on the British fleet, so it was a clear threat to the British fleet. The Royal Navy knew this because they had intercepted argentine communications.

Secondly, it's heading is pretty irrelevant, warships can and do turn very quickly, in this case the squadron the Belgrano was in was zigzagging, but its intention was not to head home, it was to take up a position that enabled it and its two destroyer escort, along with several other destroyers and an aircraft carrier in another squadron to engage with the British fleet. If that had happened then the British would have had to turn tail and run, or engage in a very bloody battle that would have cost hundreds of deaths.

The message from the admiralty to Maggie was clear, if you want us to do our jobs, we need to engage.

delthedriver · 12-04-2013 06:38PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Even RTE 6.1 News have just played the "Ding Dong" Song.

It must be a slow News Day in Montrose.
The Dart and The Luas must be running on time so!:D

dxhound2005 · 12-04-2013 06:41PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Is he not entitled to his opinion?

He is and now he is free to express it.

Spook_ie · 12-04-2013 06:51PM

Lingua Franca wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/216868.stm

The indication of a ship sailing in ANY direction when only 36 miles outside of a zone, at cruising speed the Belgrano could have closed that distance in 1 hour. Indeed if the ship was ordered to co-ordinate with the other task groups then sailing in different directions would have been routine, you don't stop a ship in the middle of the Atlantic to wait for time to pass you manouvre!

It is widely reported that their was an order for the Belgrano as part of task group 79.3 was ordered to co-ordinate with groups 79.1 (aircraft carrier, ARA Veinticinco de Mayo plus two guided missile destroyers,) and 79.2 (which included three Exocet missile armed frigates) in a pincer movement

On 30 April the Belgrano was detected by the British nuclear-powered hunter-killer submarine Conqueror. The submarine approached over the following day. On 1 May 1982, Admiral Juan Lombardo ordered all Argentine naval units to seek out the British task force around the Falklands and launch a “massive attack” the following day. The Belgrano, which was outside the exclusion zone to the north, was ordered south.

Lombardo’s signal was intercepted by British Intelligence. As a result Mrs Thatcher and her War Cabinet, meeting at Chequers the following day, agreed to a request from Admiral Sir Terence Lewin, the Chief of the Defence Staff, to alter the rules of engagement and allow an attack on the Belgrano outside the exclusion zone.[10] Although the group was outside the British-declared Total Exclusion Zone of 370 km (200 nautical miles) radius from the islands, the British decided that it was a threat. After consultation at Cabinet level, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher agreed that Commander Chris Wreford-Brown should attack the Belgrano

Spook_ie · 12-04-2013 07:24PM

Found this in a trawl, wonder what the Americans have blanked out about Argentinian Naval movements. I especially like this bit

That Argentina will not fire the first shot is the presen official line, but there is considerable· pressure from the ArgentinelNavy to attempt a major strike before all units tif the British task f9rce have reached the scene. Furthermore, a Foreign Ministry official has stated that if British vessels come "too close"
to the islands, Argentina would open fire.

end of the road · 12-04-2013 08:09PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Is he not entitled to his opinion?

yes, but if he didn't go the daily fail vermin would make such an issue of it that the police would have no option but to sack this poor lad, sad discraseful and ridiculous really

Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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