Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:56AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

ill make it simple

does her passport match her birth cert - if so, all her legal documents i.e. medical, tax, etc will be fine

Yes. But she would like to use her Irish Surname in future. That OK by Mr Fishy?

if so, don't worry that the school is calling her by her irish name.

Which delays her changing her passport. Annoyingly for her.

but from your last post I now think she's not happy with any of her names - first, last or middle.

She's happy with all of them. The ones she was given - not the silly first name they keep calling her that neither I nor her mother gave her or use.

suck it up and stop blaming the school.

Who should I blame for this delay?

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 11:57AM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Your don't have a choice in how the school carries out its business.

On most things the school doesn't either. They have to adhere to the law and Department of Education guidelines.
It would have to be tested as to whether making up names for new entrants conforms to these. If it does, I hope all Jamels, Mohammeds and Madongos have their names changed to Tom, Dick and Harry when then enroll in non-Gaelscoils.
Or even better, then Sean and Catriona could be called John and Kate on all of the official paperwork?

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:57AM

conorhal wrote: »

It seems basic common sense is in short supply these days unfortunately, I suspect if the OP were to join a golf club he'd be baffled and shouthing unfair! if they objected to him using a cricket bat to knock his ball around the course. He's having ah hypersensitive baseless whinge, and you have to wonder, what does that teach his daughter other then parents can act like a whinging self entitled teenager too?

coulnt' have put it better myself.

Cavehill Red · 10-04-2013 11:58AM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It's school policy in places to wear a uniform. I have a right to wear my own clothes. They breaking the law here too?

You don't actually have a universal right to wear your own clothes. In practice, you regularly commit to a contract to wear clothes decided by others, be it a work uniform, hospital clothing or formal dress at a fancy ball with a dress code.
You do, however, have a universal right to be addressed by your own name.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:58AM

MadsL wrote: »

Yes. But she would like to use her Irish Surname in future. That OK by Mr Fishy?

Which delays her changing her passport. Annoyingly for her.

She's happy with all of them. The ones she was given - not the silly first name they keep calling her that neither I nor her mother gave her or use.

Who should I blame for this delay?

yourself.

ballsymchugh · 10-04-2013 11:58AM

MadsL wrote: »

Who should I blame for this delay?

yourself or her mother, neither of you have contacted the school about the issue.

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 11:59AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

it doesn't - it sounds like when you are doing your education through Irish in Ireland, and specifically pick this choice, then your can't stomp your foot when you are addressed in Irish.

You are not being addressed at all as that is not your name.

HondaSami · 10-04-2013 12:00PM

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Not for the American banks I'm afraid.

These problems are encountered daily, it's not a new thing nor is it rocket science to clear up a very minor detail.

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 12:01PM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yes, it would be. it happened to a member of my family. a commissioner of oaths is what you need in that situation.

The whole bureaucracy with the visa situation on this matter is entirely ridiculous.

I still stand by my last post but the OP shouldn't have to go to the expense of paying a commissioner of oaths to get his child a visa for the US because he chose to give her the best education he could and the paperwork didn't add up!

Madness!

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 12:01PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It's school policy in places to wear a uniform. I have a right to wear my own clothes. They breaking the law here too?

And if it's school policy to change people's names on their official documentation, is that OK too?
What if they decided they didn't like your kid's name "Setanta" and decided to start calling him "William" instead? No problem right?

Gambas · 10-04-2013 12:02PM

true wrote: »

Let it be a warning to parents not to send their children to Gaelscoil. If the school behaves like this, how else are they trying to indoctrinate the child?

Oh, I dread to think....

It BeeMee · 10-04-2013 12:02PM

MadsL wrote: »

She needs to show common usage for two years to change a passport name.

Her school has changed her name to a new (Irish) First Name and Surname

She wants to use her Birth First Name and (Irish) Surname.

Passport will not be changed until she leaves school + 2 years.

MadsL wrote: »

She would prefer to change it in future to her Irish surname. Not her makey up "Irish" first name. In total there would be four versions of her name that are on official documents if that happens.

Surely the irish translation of her surname is also going to be a "makey up" name? (I may be wrong but I can think of no surname where the irish and english versions are identical)

And how does it delay her changing her passport?

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 12:02PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You are not being addressed at all as that is not your name.

dab - did you read the OP's first post

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name.

maybe you should have another read - it has now followed on from there about middle and last names and wanting to now change a last name on a passport that is different to a birth cert but somehow the school addressing her in irish is the culprit.

:D

MadsL · 10-04-2013 12:03PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

it doesn't - it sounds like when you are doing your education through Irish in Ireland, and specifically pick this choice, then your can't stomp your foot when you are addressed in Irish.

Do you struggle to address me easily in Irish if I have no irish name? How odd.

conorhal wrote: »

It seems basic common sense is in short supply these days unfortunately, I suspect if the OP were to join a golf club he'd be baffled and shouthing unfair! if they objected to him using a cricket bat to knock his ball around the course. He's having ah hypersensitive baseless whinge, and you have to wonder, what does that teach his daughter other then parents can act like a whinging self entitled teenager too?

I'm discussing the issue in a perfectly legitimate way, whilst you are drawing absurd analogies that have nothing to do with the issue. You seem to be the one lacking in common sense.

fishy fishy wrote: »

coulnt' have put it better myself.

You mean a confused analogy that hasn't actually understood my posts.

fishy fishy wrote: »

yourself.

How am I causing a delay in the name change?

rubadub · 10-04-2013 12:04PM

HondaSami wrote: »

It's not the same thing at all, if you go to a Gaelscoil you speak Irish and only Irish, you learn everything through Irish.
Am i correct in saying they are calling her by her Irish name? they have not changed her name, it's the same name but in Irish.

Dunno how you can deny any similarity (an English school insisting on translating Aine to Anne). I always thought some of these institutions go pedantically & ridiculously OTT on the no-english rules. If you look at most Irish language TV programs these days they frequently use english sayings in them.

Is it usual to translate other names into Irish, like in History classes?

I had one of those cringeworthy teachers who insisted on translating names, but would be speaking in english most of the time. He stuck a O and a fada on my surname. I could imagine him discussing Steve Jobs.
-Ah the great Stiofán Poist, founder of úll

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 12:04PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You don't actually have a universal right to wear your own clothes. In practice, you regularly commit to a contract to wear clothes decided by others, be it a work uniform, hospital clothing or formal dress at a fancy ball with a dress code.
You do, however, have a universal right to be addressed by your own name.

Then what's the stance on the right to dye your hair, put on make up etc? These are often part off school policy too.

What's stopping you from bringing this issue of national importance to the lawmakers and making sure this kind of behavior never happens again?

ballsymchugh · 10-04-2013 12:04PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

The whole bureaucracy with the visa situation on this matter is entirely ridiculous.

I still stand by my last post but the OP shouldn't have to go to the expense of paying a commissioner of oaths to get his child a visa for the US because he chose to give her the best education he could and the paperwork didn't add up!

Madness!

true. i agree with the OP. the school shouldn't call her by a name which they think is an irish translation when he's stated many, many times that there is none.

however, the price of a phone call would save a lot on having to fork out for a commissioner of oaths. an email would be even better.

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 12:05PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

If this issue is so illegal and abhorrent to you and the OP that it causes you distress to rail about it on boards

That's a pretty thin line of argument there. If people "whine" on boards then the issue is guaranteed to be of earth shattering importance?:rolleyes:

Gambas · 10-04-2013 12:05PM

Might as well roll the GAA into this too. Does the OP know that if his daughter plays camogie they'll also call his daughter terrible names on official registration papers?

Wiggles88 · 10-04-2013 12:05PM

HondaSami wrote: »

These problems are encountered daily, it's not a new thing nor is it rocket science to clear up a very minor detail.

True, my original post was to correct the assertion that different names would not have an effect on getting visas when it clearly does.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 12:06PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

dab - did you read the OP's first post

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name.

maybe you should have another read - it has now followed on from there about middle and last names and wanting to now change a last name on a passport that is different to a birth cert but somehow the school addressing her in irish is the culprit. :D

Where did I mention a middle name???

She has none.

We got onto official documents and she has expressed an interest in using her irish surname - do you think she should not be allowed to do that? Seriously?

conorhal · 10-04-2013 12:06PM

MadsL wrote: »

I'm discussing the issue in a perfectly legitimate way, whilst you are drawing absurd analogies that have nothing to do with the issue. You seem to be the one lacking in common sense.

No you are!

Have you tried stamping your foot and slamming your bedroom door to get your way yet?

Childish.

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 12:07PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And if it's school policy to change people's names on their official documentation, is that OK too?
What if they decided they didn't like your kid's name "Setanta" and decided to start calling him "William" instead? No problem right?

It wouldn't be a problem for me because I never would have sent my son to a school that did that in the first place.

But as I keep saying, if this issue is so important and going against human rights, why isn't a lawyer being hired?

Money can't be the reason as why should that stand in the way of people impinging your child's human rights.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 12:08PM

conorhal wrote: »

Have you tried stamping your foot and slamming your bedroom door to get your way yet?

Childish.

No. You got in there before me. Does it work?

If you would like a discussion please try reading my posts to see what they actually say rather than what you think they say.

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 12:08PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

maybe you should have another read - it has now followed on from there

So what if it followed on to something else? On the original issue of the school randomly assigning Irish names to pupils you really have nothing to offer other than "that's the way it's done".

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 12:09PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That's a pretty thin line of argument there. If people "whine" on boards then the issue is guaranteed to be of earth shattering importance?:rolleyes:

That's not what I'm saying at all. If people rail, (I didn't say whine, so don't put in quotation marks) on boards and everyone is getting up in arms about it, why don't they back up their arguments with actions? Simple as.

Unless their arguments carry no weight to actually be able to follow through with action.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 12:11PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It wouldn't be a problem for me because I never would have sent my son to a school that did that in the first place.

But as I keep saying, if this issue is so important and going against human rights, why isn't a lawyer being hired?

Money can't be the reason as why should that stand in the way of people impinging your child's human rights.

And as I keep saying the only harm caused is a bit of irritation and as it turns out a delay in getting a passport to say what name my daughter intends to use as an adult.

I wasn't aware that being almost a bit cross and mostly irritated was such a terrible thing in Ireland. Shame on me.

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 12:12PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It wouldn't be a problem for me because I never would have sent my son to a school that did that in the first place.

That makes no difference really as to whether the school has a legal right to change pupil's names now does it?

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

But as I keep saying, if this issue is so important and going against human rights, why isn't a lawyer being hired?

Because that'd be you using over-excitable hyperbole for a problem that will probably be solved with a 2 minute phone call?

MadsL · 10-04-2013 12:13PM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying at all. If people rail, (I didn't say whine, so don't put in quotation marks) on boards and everyone is getting up in arms about it, why don't they back up their arguments with actions? Simple as.

Unless their arguments carry no weight to actually be able to follow through with action.

Perhaps people enjoy and get value discussions prior to considering their actions?

Although the best way to get told to "get over it" is to post an opinion or grumble on AH and wait.

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 12:13PM

MadsL wrote: »

And as I keep saying the only harm caused is a bit of irritation and as it turns out a delay in getting a passport to say what name my daughter intends to use as an adult.

I wasn't aware that being almost a bit cross and mostly irritated was such a terrible thing in Ireland. Shame on me.

I'm talking to the people that are harping on about human rights, if they're so angry about rights being impinged then do something about it!!

As I said above, it's ridiculous that you're being delayed in this process. Bureaucratic problems are at the heart of it, or so it seems.

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

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