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Child Item

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

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ballsymchugh

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

I'm banging my head on the desk here. Either you're on another planet or you're deliberately reading what I'm saying wrong.

If the school has no legal right to do what they're doing, someone who has a problem with it, should call them out on it.

Then why isn't the phone call being made instead of you arguing about it?!

I saw no problem, you did, now you're saying it's grand cos the problem can be solved with a phone call. What's to argue about then?! Seriously I don't get this at all!

+1000000000

fishy fishy

MadsL wrote: »

And as I keep saying the only harm caused is a bit of irritation and as it turns out a delay in getting a passport to say what name my daughter intends to use as an adult.

I wasn't aware that being almost a bit cross and mostly irritated was such a terrible thing in Ireland. Shame on me.

thats you daughters problem - not the schools/

I'm done - god help you if you come across a real problem in life.

SparkySpitfire

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That makes no difference really as to whether the school has a legal right to change pupil's names now does it?Because that'd be you using over-excitable hyperbole for a problem that will probably be solved with a 2 minute phone call?

I'm banging my head on the desk here. Either you're on another planet or you're deliberately reading what I'm saying wrong.

If the school has no legal right to do what they're doing, someone who has a problem with it, should call them out on it.

Then why isn't the phone call being made instead of you arguing about it?!

I saw no problem, you did, now you're saying it's grand cos the problem can be solved with a phone call. What's to argue about then?!

Seriously I don't get this at all!

Dan_Solo

fishy fishy wrote: »

funny in all of this

the OP won't actually say what the name is.....

What's funny about childrens' privacy online?

fishy fishy

funny in all of this

the OP won't actually say what the name is.....

the op will not confirm if the passport and birth cert names are the same

the OP starting out saying the kid didn't like the name they were being called at school

the OP starts going on about the kid wanting to change her OWN name on the passport

if the kids passport and birthcert are the same - it follows on that the kids tax numbers, medical records and any other legal form will be taken from this information. he's been told this time and time again on this form

yet the OP still wants to argue about a school calling the kid by her irish name in a gaelscoil

at typlical "lay the blame on everyone else" attitude. A minor issue turned into nonsense because the OP would rather sit and rant and only give out "selective" information. God help us all if this is the new Ireland

Dan_Solo

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying at all. If people rail, (I didn't say whine, so don't put in quotation marks) on boards and everyone is getting up in arms about it, why don't they back up their arguments with actions? Simple as.

Unless their arguments carry no weight to actually be able to follow through with action.

So now we've gone from anybody airing a problem on boards having a life or death situation on their hands to anybody asking for advice on boards being told to just do something or other?
I think the OP was kinda asking what to do, ya know?

ballsymchugh

MadsL wrote: »

And as I keep saying the only harm caused is a bit of irritation and as it turns out a delay in getting a passport to say what name my daughter intends to use as an adult.

I wasn't aware that being almost a bit cross and mostly irritated was such a terrible thing in Ireland. Shame on me.

can she not use bank statements for the 2 years of common usage?

SparkySpitfire

MadsL wrote: »

And as I keep saying the only harm caused is a bit of irritation and as it turns out a delay in getting a passport to say what name my daughter intends to use as an adult.

I wasn't aware that being almost a bit cross and mostly irritated was such a terrible thing in Ireland. Shame on me.

I'm talking to the people that are harping on about human rights, if they're so angry about rights being impinged then do something about it!!

As I said above, it's ridiculous that you're being delayed in this process. Bureaucratic problems are at the heart of it, or so it seems.

MadsL

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying at all. If people rail, (I didn't say whine, so don't put in quotation marks) on boards and everyone is getting up in arms about it, why don't they back up their arguments with actions? Simple as.

Unless their arguments carry no weight to actually be able to follow through with action.

Perhaps people enjoy and get value discussions prior to considering their actions?

Although the best way to get told to "get over it" is to post an opinion or grumble on AH and wait.

Dan_Solo

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It wouldn't be a problem for me because I never would have sent my son to a school that did that in the first place.

That makes no difference really as to whether the school has a legal right to change pupil's names now does it?

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

But as I keep saying, if this issue is so important and going against human rights, why isn't a lawyer being hired?

Because that'd be you using over-excitable hyperbole for a problem that will probably be solved with a 2 minute phone call?

MadsL

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It wouldn't be a problem for me because I never would have sent my son to a school that did that in the first place.

But as I keep saying, if this issue is so important and going against human rights, why isn't a lawyer being hired?

Money can't be the reason as why should that stand in the way of people impinging your child's human rights.

And as I keep saying the only harm caused is a bit of irritation and as it turns out a delay in getting a passport to say what name my daughter intends to use as an adult.

I wasn't aware that being almost a bit cross and mostly irritated was such a terrible thing in Ireland. Shame on me.

SparkySpitfire

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That's a pretty thin line of argument there. If people "whine" on boards then the issue is guaranteed to be of earth shattering importance?:rolleyes:

That's not what I'm saying at all. If people rail, (I didn't say whine, so don't put in quotation marks) on boards and everyone is getting up in arms about it, why don't they back up their arguments with actions? Simple as.

Unless their arguments carry no weight to actually be able to follow through with action.

Dan_Solo

fishy fishy wrote: »

maybe you should have another read - it has now followed on from there

So what if it followed on to something else? On the original issue of the school randomly assigning Irish names to pupils you really have nothing to offer other than "that's the way it's done".

MadsL

conorhal wrote: »

Have you tried stamping your foot and slamming your bedroom door to get your way yet?

Childish.

No. You got in there before me. Does it work?

If you would like a discussion please try reading my posts to see what they actually say rather than what you think they say.

SparkySpitfire

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And if it's school policy to change people's names on their official documentation, is that OK too?
What if they decided they didn't like your kid's name "Setanta" and decided to start calling him "William" instead? No problem right?

It wouldn't be a problem for me because I never would have sent my son to a school that did that in the first place.

But as I keep saying, if this issue is so important and going against human rights, why isn't a lawyer being hired?

Money can't be the reason as why should that stand in the way of people impinging your child's human rights.

conorhal

MadsL wrote: »

I'm discussing the issue in a perfectly legitimate way, whilst you are drawing absurd analogies that have nothing to do with the issue. You seem to be the one lacking in common sense.

No you are!

Have you tried stamping your foot and slamming your bedroom door to get your way yet?

Childish.

MadsL

fishy fishy wrote: »

dab - did you read the OP's first post

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name.

maybe you should have another read - it has now followed on from there about middle and last names and wanting to now change a last name on a passport that is different to a birth cert but somehow the school addressing her in irish is the culprit. :D

Where did I mention a middle name???

She has none.

We got onto official documents and she has expressed an interest in using her irish surname - do you think she should not be allowed to do that? Seriously?

Wiggles88

HondaSami wrote: »

These problems are encountered daily, it's not a new thing nor is it rocket science to clear up a very minor detail.

True, my original post was to correct the assertion that different names would not have an effect on getting visas when it clearly does.

Gambas

Might as well roll the GAA into this too. Does the OP know that if his daughter plays camogie they'll also call his daughter terrible names on official registration papers?

Dan_Solo

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

If this issue is so illegal and abhorrent to you and the OP that it causes you distress to rail about it on boards

That's a pretty thin line of argument there. If people "whine" on boards then the issue is guaranteed to be of earth shattering importance?:rolleyes:

ballsymchugh

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

The whole bureaucracy with the visa situation on this matter is entirely ridiculous.

I still stand by my last post but the OP shouldn't have to go to the expense of paying a commissioner of oaths to get his child a visa for the US because he chose to give her the best education he could and the paperwork didn't add up!

Madness!

true. i agree with the OP. the school shouldn't call her by a name which they think is an irish translation when he's stated many, many times that there is none.

however, the price of a phone call would save a lot on having to fork out for a commissioner of oaths. an email would be even better.

SparkySpitfire

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You don't actually have a universal right to wear your own clothes. In practice, you regularly commit to a contract to wear clothes decided by others, be it a work uniform, hospital clothing or formal dress at a fancy ball with a dress code.
You do, however, have a universal right to be addressed by your own name.

Then what's the stance on the right to dye your hair, put on make up etc? These are often part off school policy too.

What's stopping you from bringing this issue of national importance to the lawmakers and making sure this kind of behavior never happens again?

rubadub

HondaSami wrote: »

It's not the same thing at all, if you go to a Gaelscoil you speak Irish and only Irish, you learn everything through Irish.
Am i correct in saying they are calling her by her Irish name? they have not changed her name, it's the same name but in Irish.

Dunno how you can deny any similarity (an English school insisting on translating Aine to Anne). I always thought some of these institutions go pedantically & ridiculously OTT on the no-english rules. If you look at most Irish language TV programs these days they frequently use english sayings in them.

Is it usual to translate other names into Irish, like in History classes?

I had one of those cringeworthy teachers who insisted on translating names, but would be speaking in english most of the time. He stuck a O and a fada on my surname. I could imagine him discussing Steve Jobs.
-Ah the great Stiofán Poist, founder of úll

MadsL

fishy fishy wrote: »

it doesn't - it sounds like when you are doing your education through Irish in Ireland, and specifically pick this choice, then your can't stomp your foot when you are addressed in Irish.

Do you struggle to address me easily in Irish if I have no irish name? How odd.

conorhal wrote: »

It seems basic common sense is in short supply these days unfortunately, I suspect if the OP were to join a golf club he'd be baffled and shouthing unfair! if they objected to him using a cricket bat to knock his ball around the course. He's having ah hypersensitive baseless whinge, and you have to wonder, what does that teach his daughter other then parents can act like a whinging self entitled teenager too?

I'm discussing the issue in a perfectly legitimate way, whilst you are drawing absurd analogies that have nothing to do with the issue. You seem to be the one lacking in common sense.

fishy fishy wrote: »

coulnt' have put it better myself.

You mean a confused analogy that hasn't actually understood my posts.

fishy fishy wrote: »

yourself.

How am I causing a delay in the name change?

fishy fishy

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You are not being addressed at all as that is not your name.

dab - did you read the OP's first post

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name.

maybe you should have another read - it has now followed on from there about middle and last names and wanting to now change a last name on a passport that is different to a birth cert but somehow the school addressing her in irish is the culprit.

It BeeMee

MadsL wrote: »

She needs to show common usage for two years to change a passport name.

Her school has changed her name to a new (Irish) First Name and Surname

She wants to use her Birth First Name and (Irish) Surname.

Passport will not be changed until she leaves school + 2 years.

MadsL wrote: »

She would prefer to change it in future to her Irish surname. Not her makey up "Irish" first name. In total there would be four versions of her name that are on official documents if that happens.

Surely the irish translation of her surname is also going to be a "makey up" name? (I may be wrong but I can think of no surname where the irish and english versions are identical)

And how does it delay her changing her passport?

Gambas

true wrote: »

Let it be a warning to parents not to send their children to Gaelscoil. If the school behaves like this, how else are they trying to indoctrinate the child?

Oh, I dread to think....

Dan_Solo

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

It's school policy in places to wear a uniform. I have a right to wear my own clothes. They breaking the law here too?

And if it's school policy to change people's names on their official documentation, is that OK too?
What if they decided they didn't like your kid's name "Setanta" and decided to start calling him "William" instead? No problem right?

SparkySpitfire

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yes, it would be. it happened to a member of my family. a commissioner of oaths is what you need in that situation.

The whole bureaucracy with the visa situation on this matter is entirely ridiculous.

I still stand by my last post but the OP shouldn't have to go to the expense of paying a commissioner of oaths to get his child a visa for the US because he chose to give her the best education he could and the paperwork didn't add up!

Madness!

HondaSami

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Not for the American banks I'm afraid.

These problems are encountered daily, it's not a new thing nor is it rocket science to clear up a very minor detail.