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Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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Comments

  • #572
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    I also remember London in the 80's. It was a great place to be, but not so great if you were Irish. Don't forget - the Irish as well as the blacks were disproportionately searched under the 'sus' law.

    There were loads of Irish (some of whom are still my friends) who came over that I worked with when I was in the City. The hassle they got from the police was unreal. I remember being stopped by City of London police in Moorgate. Me and my Irish friend had just left the pub. My friend was wearing a 'Claddagh' ring which the Old Bill were VERY interested in. They thought it signified membership of the IRA!

    Another Irish girl friend of mine was told to remove hers when visiting customers in case they thought she was a terrorist!

    True stories, my friends...

    and I got pissed all over London and had never a problem during that time

    true story


  • #573
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    wonderfullife wrote: »

    The Belgrano wasn't in the area for a look at the seagulls or for the crew to get a bit of fresh air.


    Nor was The Conquerer.


  • #574
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    IMO - it should be classed as a war crime because the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone, not sailing towards the exclusion zone at that point in time, and thus, was not a threat to the British fleet at that time.



    War had not been declared. Nor had Argentina, at that point engaged in any act of war.

    The Captain of the Belgrano was interviewed in 2007 by James Mates of ITN:
    James Mates asks whether it is true that his ship posed 'a real threat' to the task force.

    Captain Hector Bonzo: "Yes, I agree with that statement. I think we posed a real threat... we never had any intention of going back to shore; we were only waiting for the right moment to act."

    In other interviews he states they were going to rendezvous with the aircraft carrier and other cruisers.

    If that isn't conclusive enough, documents were released under the 30-year rule last year which detailed the official inquiry into the sinking of the ship and revealed further intelligence over the orders the Belgrano had that day.

    The ship was certainly a threat to the British and was legally scuppered.

    The only reason so many died was a Titanic-like failure to stop the ship and release the life-rafts. They waited til it got dark. Otherwise the death toll would have been light.


  • #575
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    I also remember London in the 80's. It was a great place to be, but not so great if you were Irish. Don't forget - the Irish as well as the blacks were disproportionately searched under the 'sus' law.

    There were loads of Irish (some of whom are still my friends) who came over that I worked with when I was in the City. The hassle they got from the police was unreal. I remember being stopped by City of London police in Moorgate. Me and my Irish friend had just left the pub. My friend was wearing a 'Claddagh' ring which the Old Bill were VERY interested in. They thought it signified membership of the IRA!

    Another Irish girl friend of mine was told to remove hers when visiting customers in case they thought she was a terrorist!

    True stories, my friends...

    i was never stopped, but i remember being in Petticoat Lane street market just after the Maze escape, and one of the traders asked me if i (depite being a spotty teenager) was one of the escapees, to which i replied "fair cop mate" and we all laughed.
    Oh! how i miss the good times ......:rolleyes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze_Prison_escape


  • #576
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    I also remember London in the 80's. It was a great place to be, but not so great if you were Irish. Don't forget - the Irish as well as the blacks were disproportionately searched under the 'sus' law.

    There were loads of Irish (some of whom are still my friends) who came over that I worked with when I was in the City. The hassle they got from the police was unreal. I remember being stopped by City of London police in Moorgate. Me and my Irish friend had just left the pub. My friend was wearing a 'Claddagh' ring which the Old Bill were VERY interested in. They thought it signified membership of the IRA!

    Another Irish girl friend of mine was told to remove hers when visiting customers in case they thought she was a terrorist!

    True stories, my friends...

    Not very surprising seeing as we were blowing up bits of their country? But the ignorance is sad..


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  • #577
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Are people blind? It has already been disproved several times that there was nothing wrong with the sinking of the Belgrano!
    it was an evil act of terror against poor young boys, it wouldn't surprise me if she had it sunk because those on it were poor, she had a hatred of the working class and poor, don't forget how she used her little friends in the police to brutalise and beat the brave miners who were trying to keep themselves from a life of no hope and future until they blead, one of such vermin was on LBC today justifying his actions along with his love for the old boot, he probably got a pay rise, proof that even many of the guardians of law and order have their price and will turn on the working class and poor if theirs something in it for them, at least with her gone ireland and britain can move forward even more and put this poisoness chapter of history to bed hopefully once and for all.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #578
    eirekielthy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 331 ✭✭eirekielthy


    Haha finally


  • #579
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    who the fug wrote: »
    and I got pissed all over London and had never a problem during that time

    true story

    Meaning?


  • #580
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Meaning?

    I think he means not every Irish in London was bullied and treated with contempt by the police or others around that time! A lot went over, got work and had a great time....


  • #581
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man




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  • #582
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Meaning?

    as much relevance as your post

    anti irish abuse by the general population was not a big issue, and the coppers where more likely to do you over for drugs than having an Irish accent


  • #583
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Just as lots of black people (including me) usually had good relationships with the Old Bill, got jobs and generally had a laugh. Like I say the 80's were great - most of the time.

    But those problems did exist. No need to sweep over them.


  • #584
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Are people blind? It has already been disproved several times that there was nothing wrong with the sinking of the Belgrano!
    Sorry Fred,
    It is generally accepted around the world that the Belgrano was sailing away from the exclusion zone and the the sinking was not a justifiable military action, it was a political action and as such should be considered a war crime.


  • #585
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Sorry Fred,
    It is generally accepted around the world that the Belgrano was sailing away from the exclusion zone and the the sinking was not a justifiable military action, it was a political action and as such should be considered a war crime.

    General acceptance doesn't equal fact.

    The Captain of the Belgrano has himself placed on record they were indeed sailing away - to meet up with the aircraft carrier, other cruisers and to mount an attack.

    Not quite sure why an Argentine Captain of the vessel sunk would come out with that if it were untrue.

    Meh, carry on.


  • #586
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    So, who thinks Maggie did a good job?

    Tbh there's a lot of things people have forgotten over the years, it took a few years to get unemployment and inflation down, there was a few years of decent economic performance and then a property crash and a recession.

    People go on about the cut in taxes but forget VAT nearly doubled, she wasn't a fan of Government intervention but was a big supporter of mortgage tax relief as intervention in the property market.

    As she said herself, probably her biggest achievement and legacy is New Labour.

    http://www.redpepper.org.uk/dispelling-the-thatcher-myths/

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #587
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭who the fug


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Just as lots of black people (including me) usually had good relationships with the Old Bill, got jobs and generally had a laugh. Like I say the 80's were great - most of the time.

    But those problems did exist. No need to sweep over them.

    Then can I lodge a protest about sending coppers from Kerry to Cork, they caused me major problems growing up.


  • #588
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,031 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Just throwing it out there.

    But I think British people (especially English and Welsh) are some of the nicest people I have ever met.

    We could learn a few things about them for ourself.

    EVENFLOW



  • #589
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    end of the road wrote: »
    it was an evil act of terror against poor young boys, it wouldn't surprise me if she had it sunk because those on it were poor, she had a hatred of the working class and poor, ll.

    Well done, you've actually turned in to a parody of yourself.


  • #590
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    The over-riding question on whether Thatcher did a "good job" - do we ever think our leaders did a good job? We always expect more and, by and large, by the end of the reign think they did pretty poorly.

    Compile a list:

    Enda Kenny
    Brian Cowen
    Bertie Ahern
    John Bruton
    Albert Reynolds
    Charles Haughey
    Garret Fitzgerald

    David Cameron
    Gordon Brown
    Tony Blair
    John Major
    Margaret Thatcher

    How many of that 12 will a majority feel did a good job? Very few.

    Politics will always divide opinions and we're never truly happy with our leaders legacy. Look at Bertie, he presided over the best economic years in our history yet his legacy is fiddling a few quid, wearing a cream suit on a beach and fecking up our economy by squandering.

    A leader very rarely does a 'good job', nature of the beast. They are put in their positions to take hard decisions that will never please everybody. Some inherit better positions than others - some need to take less dramatic steps than others. But they very rarely do a 'good job', they just steer the ship and pass it on to the next leader.


  • #591
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Just throwing it out there.

    But I think British people (especially English and Welsh) are some of the nicest people I have ever met.

    We could learn a few things about them for ourself.

    "sweet moderation, heart of this Nation
    desert us not ......"



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  • #592
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    IMO - it should be classed as a war crime because the Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone, not sailing towards the exclusion zone at that point in time, and thus, was not a threat to the British fleet at that time.

    War had not been declared. Nor had Argentina, at that point engaged in any act of war.

    You must have missed the whole invasion of the Falkland Islands bit then, that would generally be classed as an act of war.

    The exclusion zone was irrelevant as that only applied to commercial shipping. The Belgrano was in an offensive position, it was facing away, but not actually sailing home, it was in a holding position. It's direction was changing constantly.

    Several days before the Belgrano was sunk, the British government informed the argentines they would take action against any military ships or aircraft in the area.

    It was a militarily strategic decision.


  • #593
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Sorry Fred,
    It is generally accepted around the world that the Belgrano was sailing away from the exclusion zone and the the sinking was not a justifiable military action, it was a political action and as such should be considered a war crime.

    Sorry Wiley, outside of Ireland and Argentina mo one thinks that at all.


  • #594
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Noreen1 wrote: »

    War had not been declared. Nor had Argentina, at that point engaged in any act of war.
    War was never officially declared by either party. They used the Argentine embassy in Switzerland to pass each other messages.

    On April 23rd, the British made very clear any enemy vessel inside or outside the exclusion zone could be engaged.
    Argentine Rear Admiral Allara, who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of, said "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano".

    Captain Bonzo also told that he was not angry about the attack on his ship and "The limit [exclusion zone] did not exclude danger or risks; it was all the same in or out. I would like to be quite precise that, as far as I was concerned, the 200-mile limit was valid until 1 May, that is while diplomatic negotiations were taking place and/or until a real act of war took place, and that had happened on 1 May"
    In August 1994, an official Argentine Defence Ministry report written by armed forces auditor Eugenio Miari was released which described the sinking of the Belgrano as "a legal act of war", explaining that "acts of war can be carried out in all of the enemy's territory" and "they can also take place in those areas over which no state can claim sovereignty, in international waters"

    Find it rather funny that the Captain of the Belgrano, plus the Commander of the Argentine fleet, plus the Argentine Government all found the sinking to be legal, yet the "general acceptance" worldwide from people including some of our own boardsies, seems to be "nah sure what do they know, it was a war crime!!!"

    And to be clear, the 2010 assertion by the Argentine Prime Minister saying it was a war crime was done for no other reason than to exercise pressure on the UK diplomatically and to highlight the issue.

    The Argentine Navy have consistently stated the sinking was fair game.


  • #595
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    http://www.krank.ie/category/society/the-voice-of-fianna-fail-grassroots/

    Check out these tweets from a FF member.


  • #596
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    http://www.krank.ie/category/society/the-voice-of-fianna-fail-grassroots/

    Check out these tweets from a FF member.

    He may wave goodbye to any career in politics....mind you he already did that by joining FF :pac:


  • #597
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    http://www.krank.ie/category/society/the-voice-of-fianna-fail-grassroots/

    Check out these tweets from a FF member.

    Careful how you go now.. he's a boards.ie member, so no personal abuse :pac:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=27045


  • #598
    wylam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭wylam


    He has since made an apology , too little too late. Disgusting comments from what appears to be a disgusting human being.


  • #599
    thund3rbird_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 867 ✭✭✭thund3rbird_


    P_1 wrote: »
    What in the name of blue cheese does Oliver bloody Cromwell have to do with the death of Maggie Thatcher? :confused:

    I'm only up to this page in the thread so you may have already been answered somewhere in the coming pages.

    in fact - this link was previously posted in this thread but you may not have read it from the beginning and/or missed it....

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/16/northernireland.catholicism


  • #600
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Careful how you go now.. he's a boards.ie member, so no personal abuse :pac:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=27045


    Just seen that now,I don't think I need to abuse him,he has done enough damage all by himself!


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  • #601
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Just seen that now,I don't think I need to abuse him,he has done enough damage all by himself!

    Twink of all people having a go on his twitter feed


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