Season 3 Episode 16 - Welcome to the Tombs (SPOILERS)

allprops · 07-04-2013 10:28PM

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

As someone said to me when I said something similar on another thread.
Its a show about zombies, the only unrealistic thing should be zombies, everything else should abide by the usual standard of the world.

Though I'm not sure I get what point you're trying to make? Who is complaining about someone using a crossbow? Crossbows make sense, unlimited ammo.

People were giving out about crossbows a couple of pages back.

Nervous Wreck · 07-04-2013 10:35PM

allprops wrote: »

Am I being wholly naive here, but how can people complain about people using crossbows instead of guns and this being unrealistic when this is a show about zombies? I thoroughly enjoyed the series and while I accept Barthes' paradigm of each theoretical world existing within its own realistic world, it's a show about zombies!
Enjoy it. George Bernard Shaw described a critic as someone who leaves no turn unstoned.
Lower your expectations, it's a show about zombies! And enjoy.

... You obviously don't accept it.

allprops · 07-04-2013 10:46PM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

... You obviously don't accept it.

You're probably right. I don't like Barthes. Deconstructionism does that. It deconstructs too much. Then again, my standards are probably too low. "I think I'll have to think it out again."
That quote comes from a show where a kid is refound in a city of 8 million people by his own grandfather who didn't know he existed after escaping from from an orphanage to be taken in by a gang of thieves only to be freed from them when he breaks into the home of said grandfather and is saved by a gangster's moll. How implausible is that?

krudler · 08-04-2013 02:13PM

allprops wrote: »

Am I being wholly naive here, but how can people complain about people using crossbows instead of guns and this being unrealistic when this is a show about zombies? I thoroughly enjoyed the series and while I accept Barthes' paradigm of each theoretical world existing within its own realistic world, it's a show about zombies!
Enjoy it. George Bernard Shaw described a critic as someone who leaves no turn unstoned.
Lower your expectations, it's a show about zombies! And enjoy.

why does a show about something that doesnt exist in real life get a pass on stupid writing and plot holes?

storker · 09-04-2013 08:30PM

John_D80 wrote: »

I was delighted when he dropped that kid in the woods.

I think they filmed this badly, and it doesn't quite match how they appear to have written it. When watching that kid with the shotgun I thought he was taking much too long over dropping it and I was sure he was going to try something, so I thought Carl was justified in shooting him. But then Hershel reported it to Rick as if it was an execution. I would have shot him too, but only because he was hanging on to the gun instead of doing what he was told.

storker · 09-04-2013 08:40PM

sparkthatbled wrote: »

The Woodbury assault team coming in looking hardcore with grenade launchers etc, then a couple of grenades, a couple of walkers and a smattering of gunfire and they're off running for their lives. I get that most of them weren't battle hardened

It's the lack of battle hardening that's the critical bit. Just because someone knows how to work an automatic weapon doesn't mean they'll be any use in combat. Also, they didn't fight the battle they were expecting to fight; they got right inside the prison without having a shot fired at them, and then were hit when their heavy support weapons were outside, and their situational awareness was seriously degraded in a cramped, dark, unfamiliar space. Excellent tactics by Rick & co, but badly explained/presented to the viewer, resulting in a sense of anticlimax rather than one of victory.

MagicMarker · 09-04-2013 08:42PM

storker wrote: »

I think they filmed this badly, and it doesn't quite match how they appear to have written it. When watching that kid with the shotgun I thought he was taking much too long over dropping it and I was sure he was going to try something, so I thought Carl was justified in shooting him. But then Hershel reported it to Rick as if it was an execution. I would have shot him too, but only because he was hanging on to the gun instead of doing what he was told.

I think the scene was purposely made ambiguous. Carl and Hershel are right, it all depends on your point of view.

Grimebox · 09-04-2013 09:31PM

storker wrote: »

I think they filmed this badly, and it doesn't quite match how they appear to have written it. When watching that kid with the shotgun I thought he was taking much too long over dropping it and I was sure he was going to try something, so I thought Carl was justified in shooting him. But then Hershel reported it to Rick as if it was an execution. I would have shot him too, but only because he was hanging on to the gun instead of doing what he was told.

This was the one time I disagreed with Hershel

Slattsy · 11-04-2013 09:16AM

Only watched the final 2 episodes last night.

What a fucking let down :mad:

Where was this big battle royale we were expecting. They ran off after 2 smoke grenades were thrown ffs. So we lost Andrea, Milton. WOW!

Absolutely brutal. Just like whole 3rd series so it ran to form i guess.
I really wish there wasnt a 4th series.

Liamalone · 11-04-2013 01:22PM

I agree, should just stop it now, made a mess of diverging from the comics.

Grimebox · 11-04-2013 01:24PM

Meh its still mildly entertaining. Something to look forward to on a Monday

GodlessM · 11-04-2013 09:29PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I have no problem with Daryl using the crossbow but I hate this attitude. We accept the premise of zombies being real for the sake of the show, it doesn't mean all realism should go out the window. Would you be happy if Daryl traded in his bike for a magical unicorn that shít rainbows because the show is about zombies and therefore not realistic anyway?

I'm sorry what? How is someone having some attitude unrealistic? Just because the world ended doesn't mean everybody changes 100%. Maybe you should explain your point a bit more, because as is you are making no sense to me; why is it realistic because Daryl likes riding a motorcycle?

Liamalone wrote: »

I agree, should just stop it now, made a mess of diverging from the comics.

Wrong, it's not a diversion from the comics, it's a completely different story that is irreleveant to the comics. Robert Kirkman has made this clear; he is using base events and characters from his own comics as a base, but for all intents and purposes the show and the comic are not to be compared because he is intentionally trying to make them different so he as a writer can explore other possibilities that came up in writing the comic.

The two shouldn't be compared.

martomcg · 12-04-2013 03:51PM

I think regardless what direction they take the storyline in Season 4 (which we can assume from the ending is gonna be based in the poxy prison), they need to work on the pacing and character development big time.

Peoples opinons are literally changing weekly from "that was amazing" to "i'm finished watching this show". I'm somewhere in the middle but have found the show very frustrating and never quite meeting expectation.

The mid season split was a complete disaster, the difference in quality of the two halves is incredible. Is also it filmed in two halves? If so that needs to stop.

Taking the writers that were responsible for the good episodes of season 3 ("Clear" being a prime example) and letting them write the entire season would definitely increase the quality. It could also solve the pacing and character development issues that are all over the show.

In some episodes it seems like theres 20 people in a room shouting out ideas, with one plank at the top of the table picking what goes into the episode!! Too many cooks and all that........

FlyingIrishMan · 12-04-2013 03:55PM

martomcg wrote: »

Taking the writers that were responsible for the good episodes of season 3 ("Clear" being a prime example) and letting them write the entire season would definitely increase the quality. It could also solve the pacing and character development issues that are all over the show.

Thats pretty much what they're doing for season 4. The guy who wrote the good episodes is the new show runner. Glen Mazzara really made a balls of it.

Liamalone · 12-04-2013 06:38PM

Liamalone wrote: »

I agree, should just stop it now, made a mess of diverging from the comics.

GodlessM wrote: »

Wrong, it's not a diversion from the comics, it's a completely different story that is irreleveant to the comics. Robert Kirkman has made this clear; he is using base events and characters from his own comics as a base, but for all intents and purposes the show and the comic are not to be compared because he is intentionally trying to make them different so he as a writer can explore other possibilities that came up in writing the comic.

The two shouldn't be compared.

I wasn't comparing the two, I read what he said, I think they have made a balls of it in the second half of series 3.

FYI:
Diverging: To go or extend in different directions from a common point; branch out.

PhiloCypher · 12-04-2013 07:00PM

martomcg wrote: »

I think regardless what direction they take the storyline in Season 4 (which we can assume from the ending is gonna be based in the poxy prison), they need to work on the pacing and character development big time.

Peoples opinons are literally changing weekly from "that was amazing" to "i'm finished watching this show". I'm somewhere in the middle but have found the show very frustrating and never quite meeting expectation.

The mid season split was a complete disaster, the difference in quality of the two halves is incredible. Is also it filmed in two halves? If so that needs to stop.

Taking the writers that were responsible for the good episodes of season 3 ("Clear" being a prime example) and letting them write the entire season would definitely increase the quality. It could also solve the pacing and character development issues that are all over the show.

In some episodes it seems like theres 20 people in a room shouting out ideas, with one plank at the top of the table picking what goes into the episode!! Too many cooks and all that........

It felt to me like they painted the broad strokes together then parceled out episode assignments and wrote them in seclusion with no more then a basic idea of what events would transpire in the the episodes before or after theirs. How else can one explain how in season 2 within the space of a few episodes they have lori incite Shane to violence by telling him they would probably be together if Rick wasn't around , tells Rick Shane is dangerous and something needs to be done, before finally losing her head with Rick when he kills him. The writers on this show just don't seem to compare notes enough imo , whether the reason is the production of the show catches up with the writers and gives them no time to compare notes and make adjustments I don't know, but they need to get it sorted.

Nervous Wreck · 13-04-2013 06:25PM

GodlessM wrote: »

Wrong, it's not a diversion from the comics, it's a completely different story that is irreleveant to the comics. Robert Kirkman has made this clear; he is using base events and characters from his own comics as a base, but for all intents and purposes the show and the comic are not to be compared because he is intentionally trying to make them different so he as a writer can explore other possibilities that came up in writing the comic.

The two shouldn't be compared.

Well no, it is a diversion. They both started at the same point (Rick vs. the zombie apocalypse) and went their separate ways from there. The show has stuck to general plot ideas. They should definitely be compared. If Kirkman does have as much input as has been suggested, then he's the first person who should be comparing the two, if only so he can look at how much he's ****ed things up in his second attempt. If the show had followed the prison arc from the comics, we'd all feel a lot more respect, admiration, sympathy and empathy for all of the characters. But we don't. Most people just feel let down.

krudler · 15-04-2013 06:30PM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Well no, it is a diversion. They both started at the same point (Rick vs. the zombie apocalypse) and went their separate ways from there. The show has stuck to general plot ideas. They should definitely be compared. If Kirkman does have as much input as has been suggested, then he's the first person who should be comparing the two, if only so he can look at how much he's ****ed things up in his second attempt. If the show had followed the prison arc from the comics, we'd all feel a lot more respect, admiration, sympathy and empathy for all of the characters. But we don't. Most people just feel let down.

It feels like they're doing a George Lucas on it, rewriting stuff for the sake of it and changing things that worked in the comic to stuff that doesn't. Messing up Andrea being the biggest crime.

flutterflye · 17-04-2013 10:57AM

Been meaning to watch The Walking Dead for ages now - Watched it start to finish, and saw this ep last night.
Meh - That's all I can say!

The whole first season I was thinking this really isn't as great as everyone makes out - It's grand like, but no Breaking Bad.
2nd Season, I was beginning to rapidly lose interest.
3rd Season, I only started watching because I have issues with starting things - I have to finish them!

But I finally got it - Got what everyone saw in the show like. Really liked the 3rd Season for the most part.

And then THIS?!?! Seriously - What WAS that?!
Fully agree with everything everyone else has said - So disappointing. My main problem is with The Governor - He needed to be killed off (preferably in some sort of epic showdown) - It just drags the whole thing out too much to carry him over into the next Season.

Meh.

Grimebox · 17-04-2013 11:13AM

flutterflye wrote: »

Been meaning to watch The Walking Dead for ages now - Watched it start to finish, and saw this ep last night.
Meh - That's all I can say!

The whole first season I was thinking this really isn't as great as everyone makes out - It's grand like, but no Breaking Bad.
2nd Season, I was beginning to rapidly lose interest.
3rd Season, I only started watching because I have issues with starting things - I have to finish them!

But I finally got it - Got what everyone saw in the show like. Really liked the 3rd Season for the most part.

And then THIS?!?! Seriously - What WAS that?!
Fully agree with everything everyone else has said - So disappointing. My main problem is with The Governor - He needed to be killed off (preferably in some sort of epic showdown) - It just drags the whole thing out too much to carry him over into the next Season.

Meh.

I would go as far to say that episode 1 of season 1 is the only episode that can stand up to the likes of Breaking Bad

Season 3 Episode 16 - Welcome to the Tombs (SPOILERS)

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