Season 3 Episode 16 - Welcome to the Tombs (SPOILERS)

Liam McPoyle · 05-04-2013 10:27PM

I really enjoyed that I must say and I think it bodes well for Season 4.

I do find it pretty funny the amount of people bitching about it though.It reminds me of when I saw No Country For Old Men in the cinema.

Leaving the cinema pretty much everyone was complaining that there was no big pay off at the end of the movie.

This show is going to keep running for the foreseeable and the Governor is one of the, if not the most interesting and complex characters in the show to date so leaving it completely open ended makes a huge amount of sense imo.

Cant wait for the next season and in the interim I have compendium volume 1 and 2 coming to me shortly to tide me over.

jimmy180sx · 05-04-2013 10:32PM

Just watched it on fox, and have been avoiding this thread like the plague..is it me or did andreas death/biting need more blood & guts?? I wanted to see milton chew her shoulder..

PhiloCypher · 05-04-2013 10:36PM

Necronos wrote: »

I really enjoyed that I must say and I think it bodes well for Season 4.

I do find it pretty funny the amount of people bitching about it though.It reminds me of when I saw No Country For Old Men in the cinema.

Leaving the cinema pretty much everyone was complaining that there was no big pay off at the end of the movie.

This show is going to keep running for the foreseeable and the Governor is one of the, if not the most interesting and complex characters in the show to date so leaving it completely open ended makes a huge amount of sense imo.

Cant wait for the next season and in the interim I have compendium volume 1 and 2 coming to me shortly to tide me over.

You may just revise your opinion of the conclusion and the prison arc in general when you read the comics .

Nervous Wreck · 05-04-2013 10:44PM

Necronos wrote: »

I really enjoyed that I must say and I think it bodes well for Season 4.

I do find it pretty funny the amount of people bitching about it though.It reminds me of when I saw No Country For Old Men in the cinema.

Leaving the cinema pretty much everyone was complaining that there was no big pay off at the end of the movie.

This show is going to keep running for the foreseeable and the Governor is one of the, if not the most interesting and complex characters in the show to date so leaving it completely open ended makes a huge amount of sense imo.

Cant wait for the next season and in the interim I have compendium volume 1 and 2 coming to me shortly to tide me over.

I don't get where people are getting this idea from. The Governor is not shown to be a complex character at all; he's shown to be devious. He's a sociopath. He has no regard for anyone else, though he's good at pretending he does. He manipulates people and he's good at it. But there's no inner turmoil at all. The only reason he's ever been nice to the people of Woodbury is so he can be the leader and lord over them. People also go on about the actor like he's the second coming when, in reality, he's not all that great. He's good defo, but he's easily overshadowed by Lincoln, who is surprisingly underrated, probably because of how natural he is in the role.

Keeping the Governor alive is moronic and, funnily enough, brought Heroes to mind. The whole first season of Heroes, they were running towards defeating the bad guy and saving the world. They even showed (through pre-cognitive comic-books, ha) how the villain would be killed. But then, woops, they realise that Zachary Quinto is easily the best actor on the show and decide to keep him around. Now I like Quinto and loved him on the show. But he should have died in the season finale. The actor should never trump the narrative. It effectively killed the show and that same stupid mistake might well spell the end of The Walking Dead.

jimmy180sx wrote: »

Just watched it on fox, and have been avoiding this thread like the plague..is it me or did andreas death/biting need more blood & guts?? I wanted to see milton chew her shoulder..

I'd have preferred to have seen even less tbh. Like.... three seasons worth of Andrea less.

Cienciano · 05-04-2013 11:30PM

NufcNavan wrote: »

- Annoyed that the Governor/Woodbury thing is going to drag into another series.

For me, that's the worst thing about the episode! I think TWD turned into a realistic enough zombie apocalypse show, to a bit of a joke since woodbury/governor came into it. Maybe a 2 episode story midway into season 3 and that's the end of it. The Govenor is ridiculous in it now. Might work well in a comic, but with the eye patch and long coat he looks way to over the top.

As an episode, it was good for action, but if you think about any part of the story for 3 seconds you'll see a plot hole or ask yourself "why the hell did they do that??" FlyingIrishMans meme really summed it up.

And we all like Daryl, but someone tell him that a crossbow with it's slow loading is probably the worst weapon you can have in a zombie apocalypse.

AlmightyCushion · 05-04-2013 11:34PM

Cienciano wrote: »

For me, that's the worst thing about the episode! I think TWD turned into a realistic enough zombie apocalypse show, to a bit of a joke since woodbury/governor came into it. Maybe a 2 episode story midway into season 3 and that's the end of it. The Govenor is ridiculous in it now. Might work well in a comic, but with the eye patch and long coat he looks way to over the top.

As an episode, it was good for action, but if you think about any part of the story for 3 seconds you'll see a plot hole or ask yourself "why the hell did they do that??" FlyingIrishMans meme really summed it up.

And we all like Daryl, but someone tell him that a crossbow with it's slow loading is probably the worst weapon you can have in a zombie apocalypse.

Yeah, it's slow loading but zombies are slow moving so it isn't that big a deal. It is silent though which has some serious advantages. Although, I think the main reason he still has it is because it is pretty bad ass.

Grimebox · 05-04-2013 11:49PM

You guys keep referencing some of my most hated successful TV shows... Lost, Prison Break, Heroes... I'm in the wrong crowd :pac:

Dandelion6 · 06-04-2013 12:18AM

I actually really liked Andrea up until this season... and even until this episode I still thought she could overcome her schoolgirl crush on the Gov and redeem herself... but even I was shouting "stupid bitch" at the television tonight.

Very sad waste of what was a strong female character last season. Hope the writers don't do the same to Maggie next year.

PhiloCypher · 06-04-2013 01:07AM

Dandelion6 wrote: »

I actually really liked Andrea up until this season... and even until this episode I still thought she could overcome her schoolgirl crush on the Gov and redeem herself... but even I was shouting "stupid bitch" at the television tonight.

Very sad waste of what was a strong female character last season. Hope the writers don't do the same to Maggie next year.

This meme sums up how badly she was written

walking-dead-mistakes-fails-25.jpg?w=500&h=676

uncleoswald · 06-04-2013 02:10AM

PhiloCypher wrote: »

This meme sums up how badly she was written

But that decision was all wrapped up in her conflict with Dale and it was pretty clear that Dale's death, under those circumstances, would have a lasting effect on her. I have to say this show, for all it's obvious faults, attracts the strangest level of criticism.

I only just watched the show and was expecting to come here and see a shower of praise. I thoroughly enjoyed it, was gripped from beginning to almost-end when it petered out. The resolution with the remaining Woodbury residence was all just too neat and tidy and I don't want another half season or more at the prison but happy enough that Woodbury is mostly behind us.

And I am every bit as disturbed by the people saying Carl did the right thing as I was by those who thought Shane was a reasonable, misunderstood fellow. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I can't help but think they are somewhat missing the point. ...And might just be psychopaths....

krudler · 06-04-2013 12:54PM

Cienciano wrote: »

And we all like Daryl, but someone tell him that a crossbow with it's slow loading is probably the worst weapon you can have in a zombie apocalypse.

It was ridiculous that he brought it to the Rick/Governor sitdown a few episodes ago, we're going to a tense situation with other living people with machine guns, better bring my slow loading cumbersome crossbow then..

krudler · 06-04-2013 12:57PM

Dandelion6 wrote: »

I actually really liked Andrea up until this season... and even until this episode I still thought she could overcome her schoolgirl crush on the Gov and redeem herself... but even I was shouting "stupid bitch" at the television tonight.

Very sad waste of what was a strong female character last season. Hope the writers don't do the same to Maggie next year.

The fact that she's one of the better characters in the comic makes it even worse, she's a natural sharpshooter who goes from lamenting the loss of her sister to zombie murdering marksman badass. She showed she could handle walkers not a bother in the show and then Milton takes her down even though she had a weapon? pffff, less talky more stabby sweetheart.

Grimebox · 06-04-2013 01:06PM

I wouldn't consider a pair of pliers to be a weapon

Gorilla Rising · 06-04-2013 01:12PM

Grimebox wrote: »

I wouldn't consider a pair of pliers to be a weapon

In that situation with nothing else around to use, I definitely would.

Always thought it would be cooler if Daryl used a bow and arrow!

A Neurotic · 06-04-2013 01:22PM

krudler wrote: »

The fact that she's one of the better characters in the comic makes it even worse, she's a natural sharpshooter who goes from lamenting the loss of her sister to zombie murdering marksman badass. She showed she could handle walkers not a bother in the show and then Milton takes her down even though she had a weapon? pffff, less talky more stabby sweetheart.

In fairness, she only had a pair of pliers and she was facing a brand-new fresh-from-the-oven zombie Milton, not a walker who'd been decomposing for a year with a lovely soft skull and wasted muscles.

Turtyturd · 06-04-2013 01:33PM

krudler wrote: »

She showed she could handle walkers not a bother in the show and then Milton takes her down even though she had a weapon? pffff, less talky more stabby sweetheart.

I don't get why she couldn't just kick him away, she had no problem doing it an episode or two earlier when the walkers had her trapped against the tree.

Dandelion6 · 06-04-2013 04:06PM

Grimebox wrote: »

I wouldn't consider a pair of pliers to be a weapon

Walkers have been killed with less. Actually, that is one thing I really liked about this season, some really creative zombie kills.

krudler · 06-04-2013 04:59PM

Grimebox wrote: »

I wouldn't consider a pair of pliers to be a weapon

in the eyeball they'd be pretty effective.

krudler · 06-04-2013 05:00PM

the Governor's men legging it once Glen and Maggie started firing was beyond ridiculous, really hope they end the prison storyline early next season and move them on, will do the show no favours to have them sitting around there again. the fences are knackered, there's walkers everywhere, its not worth holding onto.

T-K-O · 06-04-2013 05:03PM

krudler wrote: »

the Governor's men legging it once Glen and Maggie started firing was beyond ridiculous, really hope they end the prison storyline early next season and move them on, will do the show no favours to have them sitting around there again. the fences are knackered, there's walkers everywhere, its not worth holding onto.

Agreed, I was hoping to get a glimpse of the new home ala season 2. The prison story line is stale

silverharp · 06-04-2013 07:05PM

watched it yesterday, it seemed odd that the group from the town didnt load up with supplies. It looks like they will have a food problem soon so might be the excuse to move on with the Governor looking for revenge.

ron jambo · 06-04-2013 11:57PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yeah, it's slow loading but zombies are slow moving so it isn't that big a deal. It is silent though which has some serious advantages. Although, I think the main reason he still has it is because it is pretty bad ass.

Love the stealth of the crossbow.
Not so sure about the loud ass motorbike.

Junco Partner · 07-04-2013 07:56AM

krudler wrote: »

the Governor's men legging it once Glen and Maggie started firing was beyond ridiculous,

Was it though?
Besides martinez the governor and shupert the woodbury civilians are just that, civilians. They've been in woodbury most of the time since the outbreak sheltered behind walls. they haven't spent ten months on the road fighting for survival against zeds and other survivors like ricks group and they aren't anywhere near as experienced as the woodbury guards. They haven't been hardened to the world they now live in.
They get handed a weapon, get shipped off to the prison, down a maze of nearly pitch black tunnels and are suddenly met with flashbangs,zeds and gunfire. I think a bunch of people who have been involved in no combat(human or zed) panicking and fleeing when met with what they were met with is a fairly reasonable and likely response
most of the governors battle hardened men met their end at merles hand and
martinez and shupert and the guy from tyreeses group stood their ground but with the mg jamming and the bulk of the group fleeing they were hardly going to stay behind outnumbered , so they fled too, with the probable intention of regrouping before the governor went bannanas.

Lone Stone · 07-04-2013 11:58AM

Junco Partner wrote: »

Was it though?

yea mostly because it was played out really badly, that whole scene should have taken up most of the episode and shown some panic setting in for it to be believed, instead we got them rolling in on gun mounted jeeps firing grenade launchers then a few minuets later flee'ing from two people firing riffle's who couldnt hit anyone. It was like some thing from the A team.

krudler · 07-04-2013 01:12PM

Lone Stone wrote: »

yea mostly because it was played out really badly, that whole scene should have taken up most of the episode and shown some panic setting in for it to be believed, instead we got them rolling in on gun mounted jeeps firing grenade launchers then a few minuets later flee'ing from two people firing riffle's who couldnt hit anyone. It was like some thing from the A team.

exactly, they had a mounted gun ffs, did it jam or something I can't remember

Hande hoche! · 07-04-2013 05:22PM

As far as I remember the mounted browning .50 jammed. In one of the behind the scenes episodes they had a member of the Woodbury army with a single shot rocket launcher. Think they should have used that in that in the final edit rather than having them retreat despite having Martinez with a grenade launcher.

Obvious spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThT4qiTpp9E

allprops · 07-04-2013 10:01PM

Am I being wholly naive here, but how can people complain about people using crossbows instead of guns and this being unrealistic when this is a show about zombies? I thoroughly enjoyed the series and while I accept Barthes' paradigm of each theoretical world existing within its own realistic world, it's a show about zombies!
Enjoy it. George Bernard Shaw described a critic as someone who leaves no turn unstoned.
Lower your expectations, it's a show about zombies! And enjoy.

FlyingIrishMan · 07-04-2013 10:12PM

allprops wrote: »

Am I being wholly naive here, but how can people complain about people using crossbows instead of guns and this being unrealistic when this is a show about zombies? I thoroughly enjoyed the series and while I accept Barthes' paradigm of each theoretical world existing within its own realistic world, it's a show about zombies!
Enjoy it. George Bernard Shaw described a critic as someone who leaves no turn unstoned.
Lower your expectations, it's a show about zombies! And enjoy.

As someone said to me when I said something similar on another thread.
Its a show about zombies, the only unrealistic thing should be zombies, everything else should abide by the usual standard of the world.

Though I'm not sure I get what point you're trying to make? Who is complaining about someone using a crossbow? Crossbows make sense, unlimited ammo.

AlmightyCushion · 07-04-2013 10:14PM

allprops wrote: »

Am I being wholly naive here, but how can people complain about people using crossbows instead of guns and this being unrealistic when this is a show about zombies?

I have no problem with Daryl using the crossbow but I hate this attitude. We accept the premise of zombies being real for the sake of the show, it doesn't mean all realism should go out the window. Would you be happy if Daryl traded in his bike for a magical unicorn that shít rainbows because the show is about zombies and therefore not realistic anyway?

allprops · 07-04-2013 10:26PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I have no problem with Daryl using the crossbow but I hate this attitude. We accept the premise of zombies being real for the sake of the show, it doesn't mean all realism should go out the window. Would you be happy if Daryl traded in his bike for a magical unicorn that shít rainbows because the show is about zombies and therefore not realistic anyway?

Yes! Flesh eating unicorns!
My point was that we can pick holes in all fiction. Sometimes we obsess so much over the details that we forget about enjoying the show or why we liked the show in the first place. There are so many holes in Hamlet or Macbeth or Lear or Star Wars that we forget the character development or the plot tension or the emotion of the moment.
Anyway I also appreciate the passion of the true obsessive, I am happy to be wrong.

Season 3 Episode 16 - Welcome to the Tombs (SPOILERS)

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