Respecting other cultures

Da Shins Kelly · 07-04-2013 08:59PM #1

Are we always obliged to accept and respect every aspect of another culture? I ask because I've been asked a few times by a few different people if I would be interested in attending a bullfight here in Spain. When I declined, there seemed to be some surprise and one guy said, "why wouldn't you go? It's part of the culture." To me, bullfighting is not a particularly nice aspect of Spanish culture though, and it's not something I agree with at all, and yet I did find myself being somewhat guilted by other people, as if I was being disrespectful to the culture of the country I'm pretty much a guest in. But, should we always just stay quiet and get on with it? Or are cultures open to criticism and irreverence?

For me, I don't think anyone is obliged to blindly respect everything about another culture simply because it's different. Surely part of the travelling experience and learning about other cultures is also realizing that not every aspect of every culture is particularly nice, including our own?

strandroad · 07-04-2013 09:03PM

Nothing wrong with abstaining from some cultural activities if they violate human rights or animal welfare IMO.

Nodin · 07-04-2013 09:03PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Are we always obliged to accept and respect every aspect of another culture?

No.

WayneMolloy · 07-04-2013 09:04PM

I wouldnt recommend the bullfighting, its an unsettling experience - especially if the crowd are rowdy and baying for the poor beasts blood. It will leave you feeling sombre for days after the event.

mattjack · 07-04-2013 09:05PM

mhge wrote: »

Nothing wrong with abstaining from some cultural activities if they violate human rights or animal welfare IMO.

Give us a cultural activity that violates human rights ?

WayneMolloy · 07-04-2013 09:08PM

mattjack wrote: »

Give us a cultural activity that violates human rights ?

Stoning a woman for commiting adultery.

07-04-2013 09:08PM

mattjack wrote: »

Give us a cultural activity that violates human rights ?

How about the popular Kazakhstan hobby of rape?

jim_beam · 07-04-2013 09:10PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Are we always obliged to accept and respect every aspect of another culture? I ask because I've been asked a few times by a few different people if I would be interested in attending a bullfight here in Spain. When I declined, there seemed to be some surprise and one guy said, "why wouldn't you go? It's part of the culture." To me, bullfighting is not a particularly nice aspect of Spanish culture though, and it's not something I agree with at all, and yet I did find myself being somewhat guilted by other people, as if I was being disrespectful to the culture of the country I'm pretty much a guest in. But, should we always just stay quiet and get on with it? Or are cultures open to criticism and irreverence?

For me, I don't think anyone is obliged to blindly respect everything about another culture simply because it's different. Surely part of the travelling experience and learning about other cultures is also realizing that not every aspect of every culture is particularly nice, including our own?

only if its non white ( excluding travellers of course ) , non western , non christian

ivana bacik and vincent browne told me that last nite and who am i to question by enlightened betters

starlings · 07-04-2013 09:11PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

To me, bullfighting is not a particularly nice aspect of Spanish culture though, and it's not something I agree with at all, and yet I did find myself being somewhat guilted by other people, as if I was being disrespectful to the culture of the country I'm pretty much a guest in. But, should we always just stay quiet and get on with it? Or are cultures open to criticism and irreverence?

I don't think anything is beyond criticism and irreverence, but members of a particular culture might not be open to hearing it, so it sounds like you played it very well by declining politely and sidestepping an argument. Olé!

mattjack · 07-04-2013 09:11PM

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Stoning a woman for commiting adultery.

Deleted User wrote: »

How about the popular Kazakhstan hobby of rape?

Mr Bear I do believe you jest , Wayne however ... Lord knows.

Nodin · 07-04-2013 09:11PM

jim_beam wrote: »

only if its non white ( excluding travellers of course ) , non western , non christian

ivana bacik and vincent browne told me that last nite and who am i to question by enlightened betters

Do us a favour and show us where either of those two ever said anything like that.

Chuck Stone · 07-04-2013 09:12PM

mattjack wrote: »

Give us a cultural activity that violates human rights ?

Genital mutilation of baby boys and girls?

Benny_Cake · 07-04-2013 09:17PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Are we always obliged to accept and respect every aspect of another culture? I ask because I've been asked a few times by a few different people if I would be interested in attending a bullfight here in Spain. When I declined, there seemed to be some surprise and one guy said, "why wouldn't you go? It's part of the culture." To me, bullfighting is not a particularly nice aspect of Spanish culture though, and it's not something I agree with at all, and yet I did find myself being somewhat guilted by other people, as if I was being disrespectful to the culture of the country I'm pretty much a guest in. But, should we always just stay quiet and get on with it? Or are cultures open to criticism and irreverence?

For me, I don't think anyone is obliged to blindly respect everything about another culture simply because it's different. Surely part of the travelling experience and learning about other cultures is also realizing that not every aspect of every culture is particularly nice, including our own?

Sounds as if you handled that pretty well, personally, I find bullfighting abhorrent. The only issue might be if you proceeded to lecture Spanish people on the evils of bullfighting, which would probably be rude and counter-productive,not least because many of them would agree with you. You didn't, nicely done.

NuckingFacker · 07-04-2013 09:21PM

I'd go to a bullfight if they took the red-cape and sword off the little piroetting gimp, locked all the exits out of the ring and left him in there on his own with the bull. Best man/bull gets to leave. Doubt it would be quite so popular with lads who like tight trousers and funny hats, but the public/bulls would have a blast.

Ole! Jasus,:eek: did ye see where it stuck its horn? Never knew one could go up so far. That has to hurt. Ole!

Nodin · 07-04-2013 09:24PM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

I'd go to a bullfight if they took the red-cape and sword off the little piroetting gimp, locked all the exits out of the ring and left him in there on his own with the bull. Best man/bull gets to leave. Doubt it would be quite so popular with lads who like tight trousers and funny hats, but the public/bulls would have a blast.

Ole! Jasus,:eek: did ye see where it stuck its horn? Never knew one could go up so far. That has to hurt. Ole!

A fighting bull named "Mouse", which became one of the most popular and most feared beasts in Spanish town festivals after he killed three people, has died.

El País said the 12-year-old black-and-white bull, which weighed 550kg, died on Sunday on a ranch in the eastern town of Sueca.
Owner Gregorio de Jesus told the newspaper he planned to stuff the beast and put him on display at the ranch.

The bull, known as Raton (mouse in Spanish), was a leading attraction in bull-running events during summer festivals because of his lethal charges.

Town halls were reported to have paid up to $18,000 to have him in their festivals. Some 3,000 people turned out for his final run before he was retired in September 2011.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/25/mouse-popular-fighting-bull-dies

mattjack · 07-04-2013 09:25PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Genital mutilation of baby boys and girls?

Horrific behaviour , same as Waynes example .
In the context of the OPs first post can you really going see yourself ever having to experience/see this behaviour from cultural point of view.

I cant honestly ever see myself in a country that would stone another human being , likewise I doubt I'll ever be near a situation where a child is mutilated.

WayneMolloy · 07-04-2013 09:27PM

mattjack wrote: »

Mr Bear I do believe you jest , Wayne however ... Lord knows.

I was not jesting - unfortunately. It is an aspect of some cultures that I find abhorrent.

Chuck Stone · 07-04-2013 09:33PM

mattjack wrote: »

In the context of the OPs first post can you really going see yourself ever having to experience/see this behaviour from cultural point of view.

Nope. If I was asked to attend a bull-torturing spectacle I'd make it very clear that I find it barbaric and if they had a problem with that then fuck 'em.

I cant honestly ever see myself in a country that would stone another human being , likewise I doubt I'll ever be near a situation where a child is mutilated.

Me neither but it doesn't mean we can't condemn it. I also think getting babies' ears pierced is unnecessarily cruel and that's a common practice here.

Turtyturd · 07-04-2013 09:34PM

mattjack wrote: »

Give us a cultural activity that violates human rights ?

Honour Killings.

mattjack · 07-04-2013 09:37PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Nope. If I was asked to attend a bull-torturing spectacle I'd make it very clear that I find it barbaric and if they had a problem with that then fuck 'em.

Me neither but it doesn't mean we can't condemn it. I also think getting babies ears pierced is unnecessarily cruel and that's a common practice here.

Im agreeing with you , bull torturing.. very apt way to describe it .

07-04-2013 09:38PM

I don't see why you'd have to go to a bullfight. Lots of Spanish people don't. Not approving of one aspect of the culture doesn't mean you don't respect it as a whole.

Legs.Eleven · 07-04-2013 09:40PM

I think Spain is pretty divided over bull fighting though. It seems, like all things here, political and also generational. The nationalistic right-wing love it, young left-wingers hate it, it seems so it's a pretty contentious topic even within the country. If someone I know who likes it asks me my opinion on it, I tell them honestly. I believe bull-fighting is barbaric and I'm not going to hide my feelings about it (if asked) I'll be polite about it, of course. If it offends them, then so be it. Tbh, I've found more who hate it than like it but that might just be the kind of people I know or perhaps it's less popular than it once was?

But I get what you're saying. I suppose on the topic above I'd speak freely about it as many people hate it and I don't think my view is controversial or offensive because it's already been so widely debated.

I've commented on other aspects of Spanish culture to the Spanish but I've learned my lesson. I commented one day to my students that I thought Spain was quite a sexist culture still and gave examples (we were discussing quotas). It was 3 men in the class and they were highly offended. One asked me how I'd feel if they called Irish people drunks and I said I'd probably agree with them! I also explained that I've lived in their country for 3 and a half years, so perhaps I am in a position to have some insight and can see the wood for the trees having lived elsewhere and being in a position to compare (unlike the 3 of them). In the end I had to apologise and tbh, I prefer to just shut up now. People don't like foreigners criticising their culture ime, so I don't (to their faces) for a quiet life.

mattjack · 07-04-2013 09:41PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Honour Killings.

In the context of OP's first is it likely you are going to be near / or be asked to participate.

My understanding is that the OP is asking is it acceptable to refuse to attend / experience another countries cultural event.

Da Shins Kelly · 07-04-2013 09:59PM

Halle Purring Slipper wrote: »

I don't see why you'd have to go to a bullfight. Lots of Spanish people don't. Not approving of one aspect of the culture doesn't mean you don't respect it as a whole.

I'm not going to, it was just that a couple of the reactions I got when I said I wasn't going got me thinking about the attitude that some people have about criticizing other cultures, like it's somehow disrespectful to openly disagree with a cultural practice.

mayotom · 07-04-2013 10:02PM

Nodin wrote: »

Quote:

A fighting bull named "Mouse", which became one of the most popular and most feared beasts in Spanish town festivals after he killed three people, has died.

El País said the 12-year-old black-and-white bull, which weighed 550kg, died on Sunday on a ranch in the eastern town of Sueca.
Owner Gregorio de Jesus told the newspaper he planned to stuff the beast and put him on display at the ranch.

The bull, known as Raton (mouse in Spanish), was a leading attraction in bull-running events during summer festivals because of his lethal charges.

Town halls were reported to have paid up to $18,000 to have him in their festivals. Some 3,000 people turned out for his final run before he was retired in September 2011.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/25/mouse-popular-fighting-bull-dies

RIP Raton, Met him at San Fermin a few years ago

07-04-2013 10:11PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I think Spain is pretty divided over bull fighting though. It seems, like all things here, political and also generational. The nationalistic right-wing love it, young left-wingers hate it, it seems so it's a pretty contentious topic even within the country. If someone I know who likes it asks me my opinion on it, I tell them honestly. I believe bull-fighting is barbaric and I'm not going to hide my feelings about it (if asked) I'll be polite about it, of course. If it offends them, then so be it. Tbh, I've found more who hate it than like it but that might just be the kind of people I know or perhaps it's less popular than it once was?

But I get what you're saying. I suppose on the topic above I'd speak freely about it as many people hate it and I don't think my view is controversial or offensive because it's already been so widely debated.

I've commented on other aspects of Spanish culture to the Spanish but I've learned my lesson. I commented one day to my students that I thought Spain was quite a sexist culture still and gave examples (we were discussing quotas). It was 3 men in the class and they were highly offended. One asked me how I'd feel if they called Irish people drunks and I said I'd probably agree with them! I also explained that I've lived in their country for 3 and a half years, so perhaps I am in a position to have some insight and can see the wood for the trees having lived elsewhere and being in a position to compare (unlike the 3 of them). In the end I had to apologise and tbh, I prefer to just shut up now. People don't like foreigners criticising their culture ime, so I don't (to their faces) for a quiet life.

This is the thing. The Spanish (I know I'm generalising) cannot stand anyone criticising their culture. They can give it out but they can't take it. They have no problem telling me that we're all drunks or that Irish food is crap, but if I mention anything remotely negative, they go mental. That's why I avoid the whole bullfight discussion, or any other discussion about Spanish culture. They ask me what I think but they really don't want to know. They want you to say what they want to hear.

I love Spain, but this is one thing that drives me mental.

WayneMolloy · 07-04-2013 10:13PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I'm not going to, it was just that a couple of the reactions I got when I said I wasn't going got me thinking about the attitude that some people have about criticizing other cultures, like it's somehow disrespectful to openly disagree with a cultural practice.

Most bullrings have musuems and guided tours available to tourists. Might be a compromise, go to the ring for an afternoon, appreciate the cultural aspect and not have to actually attend a fight.

If you are in the south of Spain the one in Ronda is pretty cool.

WayneMolloy · 07-04-2013 10:19PM

Halle Purring Slipper wrote: »

This is the thing. The Spanish (I know I'm generalising) cannot stand anyone criticising their culture. They can give it out but they can't take it. They have no problem telling me that we're all drunks or that Irish food is crap, but if I mention anything remotely negative, they go mental. That's why I avoid the whole bullfight discussion, or any other discussion about Spanish culture. They ask me what I think but they really don't want to know. They want you to say what they want to hear.

I love Spain, but this is one thing that drives me mental.

Same in Ireland. Like one big dysfunctional family. We can criticise the place until we are blue in the face - but god help any foreigner who joins in or does the same!

Ffs - the first question put to any celebrity being interviewed by rte is what do you make of Ireland. If they answered by saying you guys have a major drink problem, the litter around the place is insane, weather sucks and you have tracksuit wearing, junked up demons roaming your city centre - they would be lynched.

07-04-2013 10:24PM

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Same in Ireland. Like one big dysfunctional family. We can criticise the place until we are blue in the face - but god help any foreigner who joins in or does the same!

Ffs - the first question put to any celebrity being interviewed by rte is what do you make of Ireland. If they answered by saying you guys have a major drink problem, the litter around the place is insane, weather sucks and you have tracksuit wearing, junked up demons roaming your city centre - they would be lynched.

I don't agree at all. Loads of foreigners moan about Ireland and the Irish usually join in or at least debate peacefully. I was out a few days ago with 4 Spanish and 5 Irish people. One of the Spaniards (first time we'd met him) had just come back from Ireland and immediately started saying how ugly and fat the women are, how crap the weather is and how rubbish the food is. Nobody was that bothered except me, and that was only because I knew he wouldn't be able to take any criticism of Spain. And I was right - I said I thought Spanish food was stodgy and boring and he went mental. Completely oblivious to the fact he'd just done the same thing.

Celebrities aren't the same as normal people. They HAVE to say nice things.

crockholm · 07-04-2013 10:32PM

Man VS Food...........Spanish style

WayneMolloy · 07-04-2013 10:32PM

Halle Purring Slipper wrote: »

I don't agree at all. Loads of foreigners moan about Ireland and the Irish usually join in or at least debate peacefully. I was out a few days ago with 4 Spanish and 5 Irish people. One of the Spaniards (first time we'd met him) had just come back from Ireland and immediately started saying how ugly and fat the women are, how crap the weather is and how rubbish the food is. Nobody was that bothered except me, and that was only because I knew he wouldn't be able to take any criticism of Spain. And I was right - I said I thought Spanish food was stodgy and boring and he went mental. Completely oblivious to the fact he'd just done the same thing.

Ive found the opposite to be true, Irish people tend to be very defensive of their country. Even more so when abroad. Your experience points to the contrary - fair enough.

Anyway, if you want to wind up a Spaniard, ask one about their moorish ancestry. Even better if you can subtly bring it up in conversation.

They tend to freak the f*ck out.

Respecting other cultures

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