Keep Calm And Discuss Retro Generally!

06-04-2013 05:15PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Anyone playing Luigi's Mansion 2 yet? It's absolutely brilliant. I can't get over how nice the environments and animation looks.

Finished it a couple of days ago, was really impressed. Multiplayer aint bad at all either, there was a frustrating bit near the end that almost made me fling my 3ds at the wall but other than that it was great, funny that they never added cpp support for the torch though although its playable without it can be a little annoying strafing with the torch.

o1s1n · 06-04-2013 05:33PM

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd say you'd very nearly replace the consoles for the same money as this thing will cost though. And where would the fun be in playing these games on big tv's over HDMI...they'd look absolutely awful, particularly the low res GB/GBA stuff. When I do the Famicom AV mods I get to see first hand what they look like on a big tv, & the difference when I switch to the smaller crt is vast. I'll never buy into the notion of using retro consoles on modern tv's, because the experience is ruined by how bad they look.

Plus no matter what they say, this is still just emulation. Its not using original hardware, so why bother buying this as opposed to just using your pc to emulate?

My thinking was more along the lines of a hypothetical situation where say, a proprietary chip on a console reached some kind of global expiration and none of them worked anymore. Then there will need to be a market for consoles which support old software.

Of course, that's a hypothetical situation which we haven't experienced on a mass level yet - therefore these kinds of products shouldn't exist.

Deleted User wrote: »

Finished it a couple of days ago, was really impressed. Multiplayer aint bad at all either, there was a frustrating bit near the end that almost made me fling my 3ds at the wall but other than that it was great, funny that they never added cpp support for the torch though although its playable without it can be a little annoying strafing with the torch.

Didn't even realize there was a multiplayer mode! Too caught up in the single player.

Los Lobos · 06-04-2013 07:39PM

I honestly never understand these debates over picture quality, I mean, since we all played these games in the 80's or 90's nobody cared, so why the big deal now?

Once you're using a crt tv and got some sort of hook up, who cares?

CiDeRmAn · 06-04-2013 07:58PM

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgwVBlOEHuZB0H7wkJYtNxmggeneiDyeN78-kABaqj5gBZdl-6xA

CiDeRmAn · 06-04-2013 07:58PM

Oh, and Teefury have a most awesome N64 Tee for sale today!
Their new picture format precludes me from posting an image but it's nice.

Myrddin · 06-04-2013 08:06PM

Los Lobos wrote: »

I honestly never understand these debates over picture quality, I mean, since we all played these games in the 80's or 90's nobody cared, so why the big deal now?

Why would you not want to use the best quality hookup, if all it takes is the selection of the proper cable? As an enthusiast, I'll happily pay more for an RGB scart lead than I would for an RF cable. Why? Because it has such a glaringly obvious improvement in quality, & as enthusiasts, thats what we strive for. The fact RGB wasn't as prevalent in the 80's/90's has nothing got to do with it.

Once you're using a crt tv and got some sort of hook up, who cares?

Sure why bother even using a crt in that case? Just emulate everything...who cares?

Los Lobos · 06-04-2013 08:12PM

Fair enough Enternow, if that's what you're in to. I guess what I mean is I rather just play games, I'm really not that anal about picture quality that it bothers me that much.

To each their own I guess.

Myrddin · 06-04-2013 08:15PM

Los Lobos wrote: »

Fair enough Enternow, if that's what you're in to. I guess what I mean is I rather just play games, I'm really not that anal about picture quality that it bothers me that much.

To each their own I guess.

Well for me, I'll enjoy the game better is the visuals arn't riddled in dot crawl, washed out colours & pixel bleed. I find the weakness of RF & AV a distraction, & likewise I find the sharpness & crispness of an RGB picture far more satisfying to look at. I spend a few quid ages ago buying RGB scarts for as many of my consoles as I could, & its money well spent as far as I'm concerned.

o1s1n · 06-04-2013 08:28PM

I don't see how it's anal wanting the best picture quality? Especially when there's a huge leap in clarity when you get an RGB cable? We used composite and RF back then as we didn't know any better. (well some of us, others realized how great RGB is and upgraded back then too) Looking back now though, the picture quality of those pack in cables is crap. As Enternow said, you get things like dot crawl (which now makes my eyes bleed) or else just horrible RF interference.

Would you play a 360 or ps3 with the crappy bundled in composite AV cable? Or would you buy a HDMI cable to get the correct desired picture quality?

Do you watch classic films on old worn out VHS tapes, or do you buy them on DVD/Blueray?

Why wouldn't you want the best picture quality your consoles can output?

Those crazy Americans are extremely jealous of us having RGB scart as a standard here. With good reason!

CiDeRmAn · 06-04-2013 08:28PM

I do not use rgb for any of my consoles, but I know I should.
My reasons for not upgrading my av cables is simply that my retro collection doesn't get the sort of regular play that would make such improvement cost effective.
Also, I have a feeling my tv doesn't like rgb as any attempts to use rgb hitherto has resulted in a monochrome picture and empty pockets!

o1s1n · 06-04-2013 08:35PM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I do not use rgb for any of my consoles, but I know I should.
My reasons for not upgrading my av cables is simply that my retro collection doesn't get the sort of regular play that would make such improvement cost effective.
Also, I have a feeling my tv doesn't like rgb as any attempts to use rgb hitherto has resulted in a monochrome picture and empty pockets!

Yeah the dot crawl on Luigi's Mansion the other night wanted to make me gouge my eyes out

Do you not see it on the screen, moving around like loads of little insects? The picture is meant to be completely solid without any movement.

Your TV should like RGB fine, it's the same TV as mine isn't it?

Andrew76 · 06-04-2013 09:59PM

Los Lobos wrote: »

Fair enough Enternow, if that's what you're in to. I guess what I mean is I rather just play games, I'm really not that anal about picture quality that it bothers me that much.

To each their own I guess.

That's the important part. Who gives a sh1t what your setup is like once you're getting enjoyment from it.

Myrddin · 06-04-2013 10:05PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

That's the important part. Who gives a sh1t what your setup is like once you're getting enjoyment from it.

Absolutely, but he did ask

Los Lobos wrote: »

I mean, since we all played these games in the 80's or 90's nobody cared, so why the big deal now?

Once you're using a crt tv and got some sort of hook up, who cares?

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2013 10:06PM

Los Lobos wrote: »

I honestly never understand these debates over picture quality, I mean, since we all played these games in the 80's or 90's nobody cared, so why the big deal now?

Once you're using a crt tv and got some sort of hook up, who cares?

For me I have to wonder why would not play these games with RGB cables.

They are the most cost effective things you can pick up for your games collection.

For the price of the 10-15 euro cable you get a massive jump in visual quality compared to RF or AV composite.

It doesn't sound like much but when you see it you will never go back, the jump in visual quality really is that big. The fact of the matter is that you can't appreciate the artwork that went into these games without RGB. RF and composite are so blurry and washed out that it obscures the colours and detail in the games. With RGB you can see all the detail and colour in the art work, it looks absolutely phenomenal.

The one thing that puts people off buying RGB is they just don't believe how big the jump in visual quality is. I was one of them as well but when I got my Gamecube RGB cable on a whim to try out it was seriously like my Gamecube had jumped up an generation of console. I'm not audio-visual nut at all but even I could see the huge jump in visual quality.

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2013 10:21PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd4Y1A-hCbc

Sera sent me this. The bit about Roland Emmerich being Kojima's favourite director explains an awful lot and most of MGS4.

Andrew76 · 06-04-2013 10:37PM

EnterNow wrote: »

Absolutely, but he did ask

Aye, I wasn't having a dig at you or anyone else.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

For me I have to wonder why would not play these games with RGB cables.

They are the most cost effective things you can pick up for your games collection.

For the price of the 10-15 euro cable you get a massive jump in visual quality compared to RF or AV composite.

It doesn't sound like much but when you see it you will never go back, the jump in visual quality really is that big. The fact of the matter is that you can't appreciate the artwork that went into these games without RGB. RF and composite are so blurry and washed out that it obscures the colours and detail in the games. With RGB you can see all the detail and colour in the art work, it looks absolutely phenomenal.

The one thing that puts people off buying RGB is they just don't believe how big the jump in visual quality is. I was one of them as well but when I got my Gamecube RGB cable on a whim to try out it was seriously like my Gamecube had jumped up an generation of console. I'm not audio-visual nut at all but even I could see the huge jump in visual quality.

RGB definitely gives a better picture, no question. But maybe some folks aren't bothered about having the best visuals available or just don't want to spend an extra few quid playing their retro games.

I get very anal when it comes to shmups and having a decent setup, but with other stuff like the NES or SNES - I'm not bothered at all about RGB or NTSC etc.

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2013 10:51PM

I think it's a no brainer. With RGB for very little money you end up with a huge visual quality jump with every single game you will play on that system and with NTSC you no only get a jump in quality from the correct aspect ratio but you also get a massive increase in the quality of how the game plays and controls. That tiny extra investment of money is worth a hell of a lot.

For the people that think it's fine it's ignorance is bliss but once you see the massive differences in quality there's no going back.

Myrddin · 06-04-2013 10:55PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

RGB definitely gives a better picture, no question. But maybe some folks aren't bothered about having the best visuals available or just don't want to spend an extra few quid playing their retro games.

Nothing at all wrong with that, whatever gets the job done for the person. This isn't about knocking anyone elses setup. or having a go at someone because they don't use RGB etc. But when it comes up in a discussion, I always liken it to other hobbies/pastimes. Why spend €3000 on a Gibson Les Paul guitar when you can get a perfectly functional guitar from Argos for €150? Why do people spend €10k+ on flight sim setups, when you can use a sidewinder joypad & a keyboard? Why use audiophile grade hi-fi equipment when you can use an ipod & a speaker dock?

Its about wanting to get whatever you feel is the best experience possible from your hobby. When I play a Snes for example, I want that Snes experience to be the best possible for what the console can do. I use it with a CRT tv, I use it with RGB scart & I want it at 60Hz too. I'd never dictate to others that 'thats the way it has to be or else its inferior' or any such nonsense. Thats just what it takes for me to enjoy the experience, because anything less just takes away from the looks & feel of using it. If someone else gets that same enjoyment out of a 50Hz Snes wired to a 16:9 lcd tv via RF...then more power to them, happy days

As you both said above, each to their own & its so true.

I get very anal when it comes to shmups and having a decent setup, but with other stuff like the NES or SNES - I'm not bothered at all about RGB or NTSC etc.

Exactly this. Would you prefer your shmups on your E3, with trisync & sanwa buttons? Or would you prefer to play them emulated on a pc screen with a usb pad? Its obviously the former, but why is that? Because for you, anything less than that would detract from the experience, & its the same for me with consoles

Nerdkiller1991 · 06-04-2013 10:58PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd4Y1A-hCbc

Sera sent me this. The bit about Roland Emmerich being Kojima's favourite director explains an awful lot and most of MGS4.

Well then, where's Snake and Otacon saving the world from aliens with an Apple computer?

o1s1n · 06-04-2013 10:59PM

I shed a tear every time I hear someone doesn't use RGB.

True story

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2013 11:12PM

God kills a puppy every time you play a console without RGB in 50Hz.

Andrew76 · 06-04-2013 11:16PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think it's a no brainer. With RGB for very little money you end up with a huge visual quality jump with every single game you will play on that system and with NTSC you no only get a jump in quality from the correct aspect ratio but you also get a massive increase in the quality of how the game plays and controls. That tiny extra investment of money is worth a hell of a lot.

For the people that think it's fine it's ignorance is bliss but once you see the massive differences in quality there's no going back.

It's only a no brainer if you care enough about those things.

EnterNow wrote: »

Exactly this. Would you prefer your shmups on your E3, with trisync & sanwa buttons? Or would you prefer to play them emulated on a pc screen with a usb pad? Its obviously the former, but why is that? Because for you, anything less than that would detract from the experience, & its the same for me with consoles

This is how anal I am - 15kHz (feck tri-sync) and Seimitsu buttons all the way for shmups (or any old school arcade games in fact). P.S. It's an AWSD.

o1s1n wrote: »

I shed a tear every time I hear someone doesn't use RGB.

True story

Lol your pantry must be flooded after Ciderman's comments so. :pac:

Jellybeanie · 06-04-2013 11:21PM

So sorry for bothering you people but im new here and was wondering how to start a new thread. There is now 'new thread' button on my screen. Im on an ipad by the way.

Retr0gamer · 06-04-2013 11:53PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

It's only a no brainer if you care enough about those things.

I think the people that don't care about just don't realise the massive improvement it makes for just a tenner.

Andrew76 · 07-04-2013 01:45AM

Jellybeanie wrote: »

So sorry for bothering you people but im new here and was wondering how to start a new thread. There is now 'new thread' button on my screen. Im on an ipad by the way.

The 'New Thread' option is DLC, extra fiver.

Seriously though, no idea why you don't see it unless it's related to your post count.

krudler · 07-04-2013 12:47PM

I'll never forget picking up an RGB cable for the ps1 wayyy back in the day from Game, they were selling them off for a couple of quid if you bought something, it was like that bit in the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy goes from black and white to colour :pac: I can read dialogue! there's no wavy lines! no colour bleed! what have I been doing with my life! etc.

Nerdkiller1991 · 08-04-2013 01:55AM

http://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/how-millennial-are-you/

Sweet, I got a 52. Gen X territory.

o1s1n · 08-04-2013 02:07AM

I always thought the 1991 was your date of Birth?

I got 80. Born in 84 so not too far off.

Steve X2 · 08-04-2013 02:41AM

I got 68!!
Not sure what it means though, I was born in 1979.

the groutch · 08-04-2013 03:29AM

I got a 6, according to them they think I'm older than Ciderman.

Keep Calm And Discuss Retro Generally!

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