Water fluoridation should be scrapped!

jh79 wrote: »

Ziphius already addressed water fluoridation in Europe, but you already knew that.

Do you mean this

In Europe Spain and the UK fluoridate drinking water. Many other European countries such as Germany and Switzerland provide fluoride in the form of table salt as an alternative.

If so then you are really clutching at straws. To Ziphius I replied

In the Uk and Spain only 10% of the water is fluoridated

In other European countries manufactures can decide to put fluoride into salt and milk and then the consumer can chose to purchase the brands which contain the fluroide. The addition of Fluoride has nothing to do with the government.

and

Yes
we are the only nation in Europe where it's people have no say in the matter and are forced to drink medicated water. The 10% of Spain and the Uk use Fluorideated water because the people in those areas voted to have it included.

But you already knew that.

jh79 wrote: »

If wasn't safe they wouldn't allow the 10% to be fluoridated would they! Are you saying they deemed it a health risk but allowed it to continue in some areas. Seems a strange policy.

You know well there are no proven health risks re water fluoridation at 1ppm as you would provide the papers. Whether Europe add fluoride or not proves nothing re the health issues.

No one has never said there is proof of health risks, not one single person. if there was proof then adding Fluoride to water would never even be considered. You seem to be inventing statements so that you can argue against them.

It was allowed in the 10% because The people in these areas wanted it and they voted for it to be added

jh79 wrote: »

So why do you want to stop it considering the majority of dentist approve?

Can I please have proof that the majority of dentists approve of it.

jh79 wrote: »

So why do you want to stop it

Because there is no evidence that it is beneficial. The Republic of Ireland is the only country in Europe whose entire water supply is fluoridated.

The people should have a choice to medicate, putting it in the water means people have no other option.

It costs 4 million every single year.

I would have no problem if we went the European route and left it up to manufacturers to put Fluoride in salt and milk. This way people would have a choice.

jh79 wrote: »

Medicate is such a strong word, more of a health supplement in my eyes.

To use the term medicate it would have to produce a medically define response. If there are presently no know health risks and as you believe no beneficial response then really it just wasting fluoride.

Would you avoid fluoride containing milk and salt?

IMO medicate is the correct term.

Well if you wanted to go down that line you could say that yes it is wasting 4 million every year, and pumping huge amounts of fluoride into our waterways.


Yes I would avoid fluoridated milk and butter if I had the choice. If I want Fluoride for my teeth then I will use a toothpaste containing it. Once you swallow a mouth full of water the fluoride's "usefulness" to your teeth has gone. I have no problem in using Fluoridated toothpaste i would just not want to ingest it all day every day for the rest of my life.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

When I tried looking them up the only hits I got were from a whole rash of anti-fluoride sites that quoted them like scripture

Your inability is not my concern, and remember these quotes are translations from the original languages so unless you are searching using the correct language you will get nothing. as for the rest of your post I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

If this survey can be repeated and the levels of harm outweigh the benefit then it's a slam dunk

What are the actual benefits of ingesting Fluoride? not the use of Fluoride for your actual teeth as it's use in toothpaste but what is the benefit of ingesting it into the blood stream?

jh79 wrote: »

What significance does this have to a debate on whether water fluoridation should be stopped?

Well I would have thought that was fairly simple. If there were benefits in adding Fluoride to drinking water, then surely the most advanced/developed countries in Europe would also do it.

It would also help to indicate that Ireland as the country that adds Fluoride should in theory lead the European table in Dental health, but this is not true. All European countries have demonstrated a consistent improvement in DMFT over the last 30 years. The biggest factor in DMFT score comes down to socio-economic reasons.

In fact the % improvement in DMFT in Irish 12 year olds from the 1980's - 2000 is actually one of the poorest in Europe.

http://www.oralhealthplatform.eu/sites/default/files/field/document/Report%20-%20the%20State%20of%20Oral%20Health%20in%20Europe.pdf

Page 20, won't allow me to copy and paste.

jh79 wrote: »

Valium is available over the counter in some European countries, it doesn't change the chemical properties of the drug does it? It just different countries having different policies.

Are you sure you're posting in the correct thread? Why are you talking about Valium? Did you read the link I posted that shows the addition of Fluoride has not pushed Irish teeth to the top of the European league?

Fluoride is fine in my toothpaste, it's fine on my actual teeth but ingesting it with every mouthful of water has no benefit to our teeth, it doesn't magically protect out teeth once in the blood stream.

"Data on the current dental health of 5- and 12-year-old children from eight European countries has been collected by calibrated examiners. In each country a random sample of 200 children in each age group was drawn from urban primary and secondary state schools, a total of 3200 subjects. The children were examined under standardized conditions by one or two examiners in each country, all of whom had been trained and calibrated to the Swedish reference examiner and had achieved good inter- and intra-examiner consistency. Mean dmft DMFT were 1.38/1.93 in Gent (Belgium), 2.99/2.58 in Berlin (Germany), 1.62/2.35 in Athens (Greece), 2.09/1.85 in Cork (Ireland), 2.81/2.24 in Sassari (Italy), 3.06/1-82 in Dundee (Scotland), 0.85/1.75 in Valencia (Spain), and 0.80/1.94 in Stockholm (Sweden). The major components in the dmft/DMFT indices varied. Among the 5-year-old children the m component predominated in the Scottish sample, the d and f components in Berlin and the d component in Sassari. Among the 12-year-olds, a high F component influenced the index in Berlin and Stockholm, whereas in Athens and Sassari the D component was relatively high. The frequency of fissure sealants was most frequent in the Scottish. Irish and Belgian samples of 12-year-olds." Bolin AK, Bolin A, Koch G, 1996

Belgium 1.38/1.93
Germany 2.99/2.58
Greece 1.65/2.35
Ireland 2.09/1.85
Italy 2.81/2.24
Scotland 3.06/1.82
Spain 0.80/1.75
Sweden 0.80/1.94

I'm sure you won't bother reading this but it shows that Ireland is not at the top of the table in Dental health and in fact the top positions are held by countries that don't add Fluoride to their water.....but how can that be...