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Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

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    #692
    Push Pop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Push Pop


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    If a lad fresh off the boat applied for welfare, he would be refused. He can appeal the decision, but it would be refused again. Then he can pay his community welfare officer a visit and prove to him that he is seeking work, that he wants to settle here, putting the kids in the local school and what not.

    There is a 50/50 chance of him getting his dole application accepted.

    And no I cant back this up with governmental sources - its purely anecdotal.

    I'm afraid I only have anecdotal evidence but I've experienced that happening above too. But that was back during the boom and I'd say its very difficult to happen now.
    So what is the argument for having so many immigrants on a welfare path that doesn't expire?
    I'd say there are immigrants having a right good laugh at Ireland and how easy it is to leech off the taxpayer.


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    #693
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Scroll down to "Exemptions from the habitual residency conditions for eea citizens".


    .....the bit where it talks about having to have been in employment since arriving in Ireland? that bit?


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    #694
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Scroll down to "Exemptions from the habitual residency conditions for eea citizens".

    Done that. It confirms that you can't just arrive in the country and claim SWA.

    This means that they are payable to a person who qualifies for EU migrant
    worker status for dependants who are resident in Ireland or in another
    EEA state. However, EEA citizens or Swiss nationals who move to Ireland to look for employment are subject to the habitual residence condition in the normal way while looking for work.


    If you are an EEA national and can be considered an EU migrant worker, you
    may be entitled to Supplementary Welfare Allowance (SWA). To be considered an EU migrant worker you must have been in genuine employment (not casual work) since coming to Ireland. This means that people who have been employed since arriving in Ireland may be entitled to SWA even if they do not satisfy the habitual
    residence condition for Jobseeker's Allowance.


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    #695
    Push Pop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Push Pop


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yes, I know the sun rises 7 days a week. What half arsed jibe are you going to make off this, I wonder......

    Now, answer the questions put to you, or are you capable?

    Back up your position that its possible to arrive and claim.

    Will you answer the question put to you here?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...&postcount=620

    How about you give an opinion regarding the OP's question instead of just badgering people?


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    #696
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Push Pop wrote: »
    I'm afraid I only have anecdotal evidence but I've experienced that happening above too. But that was back during the boom and I'd say its very difficult to happen now.
    So what is the argument for having so many immigrants on a welfare path that doesn't expire?
    I'd say there are immigrants having a right good laugh at Ireland and how easy it is to leech off the taxpayer.

    Ireland - the country that educates its youth at great expense to send them off to canada and australia all the while importing in unskilled workers and hooking them up to the welfare loot for life.

    Real joined up thinking!


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    #697
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Push Pop wrote: »
    How about you give an opinion regarding the OP's question instead of just badgering people?


    I can't see how curbing entitlements would work, or the point, given that you can't arrive and claim. As I've said before.


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    #698
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Nodin wrote: »
    I can't see how curbing entitlements would work, or the point, given that you can't arrive and claim. As I've said before.

    We have 30, 000 non irish families, spanning from 70 different countries, on the housing list.

    Is this rational and sane? Other than the UK, what other nation would provide social housing to irish citizens?


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    #699
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    ..........Other than the UK, what other nation would provide social housing to irish citizens?

    I answered that before. It's irrelevant.


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    #700
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Nodin wrote: »
    I answered that before. It's irrelevant.

    You didnt say why it is irrelevant. Why are we housing citizens from countries that would not do the same for Irish citizens. Sweet jaysus. 70 different nationalities on the fingal housing list and this diversity diva reckons it irrelevant.

    This is how it works in the real world - you look after me and il reciprocate.


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    #701
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    ........

    This is how it works in the real world - you look after me and il reciprocate.


    emmm...no. And I'd imagine the only reason you spout this notion is as some justification for your stance, rather than as part of any political phillosophy.


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    #702
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    I note you haven't acknowledged you were wrong vis a vis the SWA payments....any reason?


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    #703
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Nodin wrote: »
    emmm...no. And I'd imagine the only reason you spout this notion is as some justification for your stance, rather than as part of any political phillosophy.

    And the only reason why you reckon that having 70 different nationalities on the fingal housing list is irrelevant - is purely down to your political philosophy.


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    #704
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Not true, buddy. Family benefits and supplementary welfare allowance are exempt from the habitual residency conditions.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html
    -10000
    Like just about everything else you posted thats wrong too, all SWA claimants must satisfy the Habitual Residency Condition.


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    #705
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Well if she says it, it must be true...

    Tell you what, I'll ask her to get it verified and stamped by the department of housing. Or as most people do accept what you are told from someone you know to be trustworthy.


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    #706
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭tigger123


    I've been kind of in and out of this thread ... but has anyone mentioned that this is pure populist politicing on David Cameron's part? He and the Tory party are started to feel a wee bit rattled by the BNPs recent election victory in Eastleigh, that's all this about. They're worried they're loosing the traditional conservative vote, hence all this bolloxoligy.

    The OP would have you believe that some sort of straw has broken the camels back in England, which is total nonsense. Maybe he should go live in a country outside of the European Economic Area to help redress the balance somewhat.


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    #707
    greendom
    Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    tigger123 wrote: »
    I've been kind of in and out of this thread ... but has anyone mentioned that this is pure populist politicing on David Cameron's part? He and the Tory party are started to feel a wee bit rattled by the BNPs recent election victory in Eastleigh, that's all this about. They're worried they're loosing the traditional conservative vote, hence all this bolloxoligy.

    The OP would have you believe that some sort of straw has broken the camels back in England, which is total nonsense. Maybe he should go live in a country outside of the European Economic Area to help redress the balance somewhat.


    I think I may have mentioned that - that it was not driven out of economic reality but political expediency. It's lowest common denominator politics, picking on the easy target. It will make no material difference to the UK economy but will make certain people feel better and will probably give the Tories a lift in any up-coming elections.


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    #708
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    -10000
    Like just about everything else you posted thats wrong too.

    You are the lad that thinks it a good thing that 70 different nationalities are on the housing list in fingal. Thats insane, buddy. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

    Tell me, other than the U.K., name a country that would provide social housing for Irish citizens?


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    #709
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    greendom wrote: »
    I think I may have mentioned that - that it was not driven out of economic reality but political expediency. It's lowest common denominator politics, picking on the easy target. It will make no material difference to the UK economy but will make certain people feel better and will probably give the Tories a lift in any up-coming elections.

    Ive already told you this - each and every opinion poll conducted on the issue, both here and in the UK, has shown that the public want a clampdown on immigration.

    Its what the people want.


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    #710
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    You are the lad that thinks it a good thing that 70 different nationalities are on the housing list in fingal. Thats insane, buddy. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

    Tell me, other than the U.K., name a country that would provide social housing for Irish citizens?

    Same shite, different day, I see.


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    #711
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    You are the lad that thinks it a good thing that 70 different nationalities are on the housing list in fingal. Thats insane, buddy. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

    Tell me, other than the U.K., name a country that would provide social housing for Irish citizens?

    I welcome diversity. I am not all that interested in what other countries do, just what mine does.


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    #712
    greendom
    Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Ive already told you this - each and every opinion poll conducted on the issue, both here and in the UK, has shown that the public want a clampdown on immigration.

    Its what the people want.

    And is that the job of the politicians ? To give people what they want ? The country would be in an even worse state if that was their primary function.


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    #713
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Ive already told you this - each and every opinion poll conducted on the issue, both here and in the UK, has shown that the public want a clampdown on immigration.

    Its NOT what the people want.
    Fixed your post

    Which is why the likes of the Immigration Control Platform have no councillors, Td's, or Seanad members, because despite your spewings people dont vote for those expousing your veiwpoint, they do however vote for non Irish candidates!:P


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    #714
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Fixed your post

    Which is why the likes of the Immigration Control Platform have no councillors, Td's, or Seanad members, because despite your spewings people dont vote for those expousing your veiwpoint, they do however vote for non Irish candidates!:P

    How do you explain this, so?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/seven-out-of-10-favour-immigration-restrictions-26546841.html


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    #715
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    greendom wrote: »
    And is that the job of the politicians ? To give people what they want ?.

    Pretty much, yeah. If we had a proper immigration policy, like well run countries such as Australia and Canada - very few would complain.

    They issue visas, you work, pay your way, dont receive zip from the state and after a while you get the honour of becoming a citizen. You lose your job and dont find another - you go home. The way it should be.

    Here, you work for a year or two, lose your job and get hooked up to the welfare gravy train indefintely. Its not sound policy.


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    #716
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    How do you explain this, so?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/seven-out-of-10-favour-immigration-restrictions-26546841.html

    I refer you to my earlier post, those who like you expouse extreme right wing policies have consistantly failed to get elected even to a local council on that platform.
    Meanwhile we have had people vote for non Irish candidates, indeed we have even had a Nigerian Mayor in Portlaooise, so how do you explain that!


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    #717
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    How do you explain this, so?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/seven-out-of-10-favour-immigration-restrictions-26546841.html

    Plenty of people have unimportant concerns that as a result never translate into political pressure. It's hardly a new thing.


    Despite your insistence to the contrary vague unsettling feelings about foreigners doesn't seem to be very high on anyone's list of things they give a shit about, if the lack of representation immigration reform parties have to show for themselves is anything to go by.

    Doubly so seeing that "blame the others" parties tend to do better in times of less than they do in times of plenty. By rights the Immigration Control Platform should have at least managed to get someone elected somewhere.
    And yet, here we are.....


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    #718
    not yet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Wayne,

    I think you are p1ssing againt the wind with some of the folk on here.

    They have their wholly jumper Agenda and really believe that Ireland will benefit from 100,000s more non nationals arriving in the country. All they have is the usual ''prove it'' ''back that up'' Show me the report on that '' and my personal favourite The multi quote going back 15 pages.

    I have lived and worked in Dublin for 48 years, have many friends and family who I trust, and the general feeling I'm getting from all of these is something needs to be done about the numbers coming into the country. As I said in an earlier post almost 18% of our population is now non national, most of this in the past 15 years, If you equate this as a % to USA or England the figures would be 60million non nationals in the USA and 7 million in England. I do not believe that these countries could cope or allow a situation to develope where this happened in such a short period of time.


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    #719
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    I refer you to my earlier post, those who like you expouse extreme right wing policies have consistantly failed to get elected even to a local council on that platform.
    Meanwhile we have had people vote for non Irish candidates, indeed we have even had a Nigerian Mayor in Portlaooise, so how do you explain that!

    He was elected by fellow councillors. Isnt that the lad who claimed he fled Nigeria in fear for his life, yet when he became mayor, he went back home to a heroes welcome!


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    #720
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    not yet wrote: »
    Wayne,

    I think you are p1ssing againt the wind with some of the folk on here.

    They have their wholly jumper Agenda and really believe that Ireland will benefit from 100,000s more non nationals arriving in the country. All they have is the usual ''prove it'' ''back that up'' Show me the report on that '' and my personal favourite The multi quote going back 15 pages.

    I have lived and worked in Dublin for 48 years, have many friends and family who I trust, and the general feeling I'm getting from all of these is something needs to be done about the numbers coming into the country. As I said in an earlier post almost 18% of our population is now non national, most of this in the past 15 years, If you equate this as a % to USA or England the figures would be 60million non nationals in the USA and 7 million in England. I do not believe that these countries could cope or allow a situation to develope where this happened in such a short period of time.

    Yes, it's everyone else's fault you can't articulate yourself sufficiently.


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    #721
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Plenty of people have unimportant concerns that as a result never translate into political pressure. It's hardly a new thing.


    Despite your insistence to the contrary vague unsettling feelings about foreigners doesn't seem to be very high on anyone's list of things they give a shit about, if the lack of representation immigration reform parties have to show for themselves is anything to go by.

    Doubly so seeing that "blame the others" parties tend to do better in times of less than they do in times of plenty. By rights the Immigration Control Platform should have at least managed to get someone elected somewhere.
    And yet, here we are.....

    A Greek lad I used to work with bragged about the fact that Greece only had a tiny far right party, considering the number of illegals in Greece. Showed how tolerant they were, apparently.

    That was nine years ago. Now that tiny fringe party are polling as the third largest party in the state.

    Be careful what you wish for.


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