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Heavier Passengers 'Should Pay More' (and not michael o'leary btw!)

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    #92
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    This has always annoyed me. It's hard not to feel peed off when your size 8 self gets charged a fortune for a few extra kilos in the checked bag, then a clinically obese person who is about 3 times your size sits next to you on the flight.


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    #93
    frank reynolds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 404 ✭✭frank reynolds


    COYVB wrote: »
    Would it encourage tall people to chop half their legs off?

    yeah. those damn pesky tallies


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    #94
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,237 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    This has always annoyed me. It's hard not to feel peed off when your size 8 self gets charged a fortune for a few extra kilos in the checked bag, then a clinically obese person who is about 3 times your size sits next to you on the flight.

    But why does this annoy you? They are two completely different things. The seat doesn't have a weight restriction because no airline employee needs to lift its contents around at any time. Your bag has weight restrictions because it does need to be lifted around, it needs to be stowed overhead, etc.

    Also your small, size 8 self is hardly deserving of a life discount in general terms? Why don't we go the whole hog? We can artifically tax the less genetically beautiful; the less genetically intelligent; those of a less edifying skin colour and sexual preference...oh wait, they tried something like that once before in history.

    You're small, other people are bigger. They'll pay the same as you for an airline seat so long as the EU is around. Suck it up tiny.


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    #95
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    What I'd like to see the airlines do is offer something like a 'row buy-out': for the planes with three seats in a row, if you are traveling with a friend, you can buy all three seats (at a discount) so the middle seat stays empty.
    Believe it or not ...

    https://www.ryanair.com/ie/terms-and-conditions
    To book an extra seat for such an item the word "ITEM SEAT" must be entered as the last name and "EXTRA" entered as the first name. EXTRA ITEM SEAT will then be displayed both in the reservation and on the on-line Boarding Pass.


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    #96
    vektarman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭vektarman


    Did I hear someone say this would never happen?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22001256


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    #97
    seanmacc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭seanmacc


    vektarman wrote: »
    Did I hear someone say this would never happen?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22001256

    In fairness, have you seen the size of some of the Samoans?


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    #98
    Truncheon Rouge
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 388 ✭✭Truncheon Rouge


    There is good reason behind the proposal.

    However, it would provoke too much rabble rabble.

    And for that reason it won't happen.


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    #99
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    if you have 2 kg of coke in your stomach does that count? I mean, it's not even mine.


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    #100
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Pay per kilo actually does appear to be the fairest system overall because it does away with trying to account for BMI, fat -v- skinny -v- athletic, etc. Sure, heavier people pay more, even if they're a 120kg, 5% bodyfat MMA fighter, but tough ****.

    The only problem is incorporating this into the "low fares" model. If it's pay per kilo, how do you determine what the cost is going to be for a flight you're not taking for another six months? Maybe pay a set fare at the time and then at check-in you get weighed and you're refunded or charged extra?

    But then that removes a lot of the benefit of online checkin, etc. It might possibly only work for long-haul where people are more tolerant of longer check-ins, etc.


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    #101
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    seamus wrote: »
    Pay per kilo actually does appear to be the fairest system overall because it does away with trying to account for BMI, fat -v- skinny -v- athletic, etc. Sure, heavier people pay more, even if they're a 120kg, 5% bodyfat MMA fighter, but tough ****.

    The only problem is incorporating this into the "low fares" model. If it's pay per kilo, how do you determine what the cost is going to be for a flight you're not taking for another six months? Maybe pay a set fare at the time and then at check-in you get weighed and you're refunded or charged extra?

    But then that removes a lot of the benefit of online checkin, etc. It might possibly only work for long-haul where people are more tolerant of longer check-ins, etc.

    Could have ranges and the employees can pull people out of the queue based on their supposed weight and looking at them, much like people with bigger bags get singled out. Same deal, they get commission on every big boy found.


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    #102
    JimiTime
    Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    fortune wookiee wrote: »
    Just make sure to get to the airport at least 6 hours before your flight.

    Maybe they'd do it on Body Mass Index :)

    Ridiculous proposal, and horrible to see so many people agree with it. We shouldn't let it ever get to the stage where people are being flippin weighed boarding a plane:rolleyes:


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    #103
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Could have ranges and the employees can pull people out of the queue based on their supposed weight and looking at them, much like people with bigger bags get singled out. Same deal, they get commission on every big boy found.
    No way that's a goer. Staff would blatantly pick on the chunky people who would then proceed to initiate huge court cases for the embarrassment and shock of being singled out as a fatty in public.

    Pulling someone out of the line because their bag is too big is one thing. Pulling someone out of a line for a weight check - could you imagine the ruckus!


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    #104
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    vektarman wrote: »
    Did I hear someone say this would never happen?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22001256

    Someone at Samoan Air clearly attended the Ryanair school of free advertising!


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    #105
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Several previous threads on this
    rubadub wrote: »
    You should pay according to your weight. It should not be called a "fat tax" but a "weight fee". The 2 seats thing is one thing, but people should pay for how much weight they are moving from A to B. They already do this with your luggage, and nobody thinks that is strange. You are not being penalised you would pay for the service, just like in the postoffice, it would be stupid to charge the same price for all packages regardless of weight & size. XXL clothes can cost a lot more, there is more material in them, is that "discrimination against the disabled"?


    fuel costs increase. At ~13 stone I am the one being penalised if the guy next to me is 14stone and paid the same price as me. They have added up all the fuel costs and split it. It would be like going to a restaurant with a load of big eaters and then them wanting to split the bill evenly.


    They should work it differently. Like pizza places pull the trick "free delivery" "walk in discount". They should increase the standard ticket price and then OFFER a "low weight discount" or something. So nobody is being forced to be weighed. You can pay €150 straight off and stroll through checkin, OR you can queue to be weighed and get a ticket for €100 or whatever, depending on your weight. Many would pass on it due to delays and inconvenience, and of course because many would know they would get no saving. Dunno if babies & small kids still get discounts even though they might get a dedicated seat.


    It is nothing to do with health or BMI, a "BMI obese" dwarf could weigh very little. They should introduce premium size seats, this should be available for anybody. I expect many people would gladly pay 1.5times the price for a bigger seat. Plane fares are already very low and people are already willing to pay ridiculous premiums for business and first class. The normal seats are 3 across, if you just put 2 in that same place you could charge 1.5 times, actually it should be lower due to less admin costs being just a single customer. A big guy in my work flies business when he goes on holidays, just for the bigger seats. I think they would stand to make a fortune with reasonably priced larger seats.

    JimiTime wrote: »
    We shouldn't let it ever get to the stage where people are being flippin weighed boarding a plane:rolleyes:
    it is already happening, not for pricing, but they do weigh people.
    EileenG wrote: »
    Aer Arran already weight people on the smaller planes. Too many heavy people on one side of the plane and it won't take off.
    mikemac wrote: »
    If you fly from Conemara Airport to Aran Islands they do this.
    It to see who sits where for balance.

    Well, they did last time I was there and the plane was very small


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    #106
    D1stant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    By the same logic, should skinny pilots be paid more?

    And what if I have a humongous ****e on the plane. Do I get a refund when I land?


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    #107
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    D1stant wrote: »
    By the same logic, should skinny pilots be paid more?

    And what if I have a humongous ****e on the plane. Do I get a refund when I land?

    Why would you get a refund ? Your humungous dump travelled too.

    ......toddles off to google airport colonic irrigation :pac:


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    #108
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    seamus wrote: »
    No way that's a goer. Staff would blatantly pick on the chunky people who would then proceed to initiate huge court cases for the embarrassment and shock of being singled out as a fatty in public.

    Pulling someone out of the line because their bag is too big is one thing. Pulling someone out of a line for a weight check - could you imagine the ruckus!

    Yes, with glee! I suppose they could randomise it or just have a policy that shows they weren't being unfair. They would be checking this when looking at their ticket, as that's when you would see the weight, so I suppose "everybody" is being checked.


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    #109
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Why would you get a refund ? Your humungous dump travelled too.

    ......toddles off to google airport colonic irrigation :pac:
    Theoretically you should have to pay to go to the toilet as your colossal dump may travel a few thousand more km than you before disembarking. :D


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    #110
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    seamus wrote: »
    Theoretically you should have to pay to go to the toilet as your colossal dump may travel a few thousand more km than you before disembarking. :D

    And if you have dinner on board will you be charged for transporting the meal the rest of the journey after you eat it ??? :pac:


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    #111
    gramar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,045 ✭✭✭✭gramar


    I've said this and heard people mention this for years.
    It makes sense and charging someone who weighs 70kg the same as someone who weighs 100kg the same isn't fairwhen a large portion of the cost of the flight is the consumption of fuel which is directly related to the weight carried.
    Somehow though, I can't see weighing scales for people being brought into airports anytime soon.


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    #112
    ultrasonic
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭ultrasonic


    What about passengers who are heavier than average because they're tall?

    Having paid extra will they get a seat with an equivalent amount of extra legroom?

    Has this Bhatta nothing better to do with his time than write nonsense!


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    #113
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    gramar wrote: »
    Somehow though, I can't see weighing scales for people being brought into airports anytime soon.
    It is already happening in Irish airports, see my post just a few back.
    ultrasonic wrote: »
    What about passengers who are heavier than average because they're tall?
    they pay more, just like people who are heavier due to any other reasons, be it being overly muscular, having metal limb implants, wearing heavy clothing or jewelry.

    Nowhere in the link did it mention being fat, which I am guessing is what you are getting at.


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    #114
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    The airlines would have to have a set average weight for everyone across Europe. I think that would lead to discrimination cases as Spaniards are smaller than Irish people so you could argue that all Irish people are being discriminated against because of their genetic makeup.

    You couldn't buy tickets over the internet because you'd only lie about your weight meaning airlines would have to either slow down the boarding process to weigh everybody or hire extra staff to cover the extra work which will all ad cost.

    Ryanair are already losing customers due to their current restrictions if they have to increase the price they will loss more customers who just don't want the hassle or embarrassment of being weighed in front of other people.

    I'd wonder how much of an effect the added weight will have on the plane? I'm sure passenger weights could differ by a tone or two but these are massive planes, how much of a difference would an extra tone really make to such a large machine?


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    #115
    jackal
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jackal


    COYVB wrote: »
    but we've established it costs 2.88l per hour of flight per 70kg of person, so if some big bugger of 140kg wanted to fly, based on weight, he'd have to pay about a fiver extra per hour of flight. It's not the huge sums the airlines want you to think when it comes to cost per weight of passenger - the vast majority of weight on any passenger plane is the fuel and the plane itself, costing approximately 4.5 times the amount of fuel 150 70kg passengers do. A fatty, or a dozen fatties, costs an airline a pittance in fuel, just like a heavy bag costs them practically nil to carry. It's a money making racket

    Yes its all a money making racket. The cost of the fuel, and the plane itself are purely co-incidental and have nothing whatsoever to do with ferrying you or I from A to B. How very dare they.

    The weight of the plane, and some of the fuel are fixed. Without enough paying passengers its not worth flying. The weight of the passengers and their luggage then determine how much additional fuel is needed on top of the unavoidable aircraft + fuel to fly said aircraft.


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    #116
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The airlines would have to have a set average weight for everyone across Europe.
    :confused: why would they have to? I have never heard of postal/courier services having average package weights? The air Samoa one does it by kilo.

    ScumLord wrote: »
    I think that would lead to discrimination cases as Spaniards are smaller than Irish people so you could argue that all Irish people are being discriminated against because of their genetic makeup.
    Smaller people will have lower metabolic rates and so get by on less food. Its like saying discrimination cases should be brought out against mcdonalds as it costs more for a guy in the US to get his fill than a Japanese guy.

    Or demanding an airplane carry your pet horse for the same price as a hamster, as its species discrimination and not the horses fault.

    ScumLord wrote: »
    You couldn't buy tickets over the internet because you'd only lie about your weight
    I doubt they would ask the weight online. I don't remember ever having to declare baggage weight online. As I was saying it could be an optional discount, you pay a fixed high rate online and get a discount if you choose to, and have it refunded on your card or possible in cash or vouchers. I have heard numerous people complain about the high price they had to pay for tiny children.


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    #117
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    rubadub wrote: »
    :confused: why would they have to? I have never heard of postal/courier services having average package weights? The air Samoa one does it by kilo.
    What's an overweight person? When would the charge apply? If it's over a certain weight some countries IE: the rich countries in the north that have bigger people as standard, will end up paying more on average.

    I doubt they would ask the weight online. I don't remember ever having to declare baggage weight online. As I was saying it could be an optional discount, you pay a fixed high rate online and get a discount if you choose to, and have it refunded on your card or possible in cash or vouchers. I have heard numerous people complain about the high price they had to pay for tiny children.
    It's still a complicated way of doing things. It would cost money to implement and manage. Maybe the costs of doing something like this would be greater than allowing for the weight of the plane to vary by a tone. I'm still not convinced that a difference of a tone is going to have anything but the slightest of difference to the plane. It's designed to carry over a hundred tons of cargo, a tone here or there isn't going to make a bit of difference.


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    #118
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ScumLord wrote: »
    What's an overweight person? When would the charge apply?
    Whats an overweight parcel? I don't see why they have to categorise or label people or parcels? The Samoans appear to charge per kilo, it starts at 1kg upwards.

    People keep reading things into this, nowhere in the article did they mention fat, seems many wish they did and are just itching for an argument about a non-existent thing.

    ScumLord wrote: »
    the rich countries in the north that have bigger people as standard, will end up paying more on average.
    Yes, just like they pay more for their food, they pay their fair share. A guy with size 14 feet probably pays more for his shoes.

    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's still a complicated way of doing things. It would cost money to implement and manage. Maybe the costs of doing something like this would be greater than allowing for the weight of the plane to vary by a tone.
    It is already done by couriers & postal systems worldwide. I am sure they will calculate it to see if its worthwhile. It has been proposed by lots of airlines before so I guess could be worthwhile financially.


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    #119
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    rubadub wrote: »
    Whats an overweight parcel? I don't see why they have to categorise or label people or parcels? The Samoans appear to charge per kilo, it starts at 1kg upwards.

    People keep reading things into this, nowhere in the article did they mention fat, seems many wish they did and are just itching for an argument about a non-existent thing.
    Maybe I am reading to much into it, my thinking is they have their normal price and if you're over a certain weight you pay a penalty on top of the price.

    If it's the same as postal (although that's based on volume rather than just the weight) and you're paying for your weight class IE: 50 - 70kg low price, 70 - 100kg mid price and so on I still don't see how it can work with online transactions. Most people will lie and chance their arm which means everyone will have to be weighed and if enough people lie it will slow the boarding process down as they argue and have to find money to pay for being larger than the person in front of them.


    It's certainly one way of doing it but it could be a horrible move both practically and end up hurting the companies brand. I don't think fat people will be the ones that cause the trouble either. It will be the women that think they carry extra weight that will avoid the prospect of being publicly weighed at all costs. That could mean entire families moving to airlines that don't price tickets on weight. At the end of the day women are the biggest buying group on the planet, you always have to market everything from the mindset of a woman shopping no matter what your selling.


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    #120
    Steve O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Steve O


    In fairness, if I was a regular traveller and had a chance to reduce my fare by half by losing a stone id do it and keep it off. It would be the ultimate incentive to start healthy eating.

    I also think it shouldn't be by weight, it should be by capacity ie if you are wide, you should pay for whatever space you take up.


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    #121
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Maybe I am reading to much into it, my thinking is they have their normal price and if you're over a certain weight you pay a penalty on top of the price.
    Yes, it could be similar to luggage. You might have a 20kg limit and pay at the airport if you go over this, or else you are not allowed on with it.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    If it's the same as postal (although that's based on volume rather than just the weight)
    Post & couriers can take both into account, weight & volume. If you are over a ton per cubic meter they go by weight. I was also suggesting they offer larger seats, have 2 across instead of 3 and charge 1.5 times or less. It is weird that they seem to presume if you require more space you also want better service and seats etc, and so it ends up costing a lot more (i.e. business & first class).

    This would be a better idea IMO as people are not blatantly declaring their weight, and worry about peoples prejudice or presumptions about weight. You could have a skinny person who just likes more space.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    weight class IE: 50 - 70kg low price, 70 - 100kg mid price and so on I still don't see how it can work with online transactions.
    You could pick your weight class online, if you are over you pay more, just like if they introduced 0-20kg, 20-25kg, 25-30kg ranges for luggage. They could have an upper limit and people could pay it and not have to be weighed, just like buffets might have an option to buy food by weight if you are not that hungry, so small eaters are not put off by having to pay for big eaters.

    They could be walking over a platform, like going through a metal detector. It would have what you paid and it would appear on a screen for the staff member to see, its not like they are going to publicly declare your weight over the airport intercom "wheeww, we have a fatty here in checkout desk 6, come look at the freak"
    ScumLord wrote: »
    At the end of the day women are the biggest buying group on the planet
    I can actually imagine lots of women gloating about being lighter than men on average, just like they used to get cheaper car insurance. The same airline could still have non-weighing flights.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    and end up hurting the companies brand.
    or attracting light people to the airline where they know it is likely they will not be uncomfortable because of less likelihood of an oversized person being beside them encroaching in their space.

    Like this guy http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/f/4/f4d2c_ORIG-flight_sep06_1_1_.jpg


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