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Ireland described as Member of the Home Nations

24

Comments

  • #32
    robinph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The "home nations" is used in Rubgy to mean England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They have just used it in that report as a handy way of describing the group of teams that their viewers are interested in and for the round ball game Ireland happens to have two teams. Bit more of a mouthful for them to have to report something along the lines of "The British teams all played rubbish last night, so did Northern Ireland and so did that other team from Ireland". Their audience is made up of people who are interested in the results of all of the 5 teams.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El Spearo wrote: »
    Given the regular use of the term and indeed the fact it is capitalised, suggests that they are referring to the Home Nations -England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This occurred to me when I first though maybe it was all the nations playing at home, but the capitalisation rules this thought out.

    Meh, I have more to be worried about. I'm surprised anyone (Irish or English) wanted to be reminded of the score anyway :pac:


  • #34
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    robinph wrote: »
    The "home nations" is used in Rubgy to mean England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They have just used it in that report as a handy way of describing the group of teams that their viewers are interested in and for the round ball game Ireland happens to have two teams. Bit more of a mouthful for them to have to report something along the lines of "The British teams all played rubbish last night, so did Northern Ireland and so did that other team from Ireland". Their audience is made up of people who are interested in the results of all of the 5 teams.

    Yep. Totally agree, it was simply an inclusion of convenience. And I'm pretty sure SKY aren't heading up a secret invasion of ROI anytime soon. Still, it's interesting that they said it, and it's sparked some sort of a conversation on the topic.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El Spearo wrote: »
    Hold your horses there now.

    Can't afford SKY have Freeview. And yes I support Liverpool for my sins.
    What happened between Ireland and England is well in the past, and is something which I have studied in uni, but not something I take to heart. I have no personal vendetta against 'the brits' as you say.

    The fact of the matter is, when writing one must ensure that all the work contained is accurate. Today, a large quantity of people in the UK have read a story which classifies Ireland as a member of the Home Nations, which we simply are not. I've stated that this bugs me. I don't know many Irish people who upon being classes as British, English, Scottish, American or Japanese wouldn't correct someone; as would anybody incorrectly defined. Articles like that don't help the matter of definition.

    I accept that the inclusion of Ireland was simply a short cut of convenience for the author, but I'm stating that imo such a shortcut should be frowned upon. The same as calling a German - Dutch would cause a similar reaction.

    EDIT:

    The highlighted part: I wasn't going to mention my educational background for fear of sounding arrogant, but I am a MA History student currently working on a dissertation, come PhD topic surrounding the building of a national Irish identity following the founding of the Irish Free State.

    I don't see where you are coming from, at all. What would be the German equivalent to "home nations" be in a Dutch context? And would a Dutch person be as annoyed as you are at such a reference? Perhaps, seeing as the whole Hitler thing was only 70 years ago. But I've generally found Dutch people to be pretty forward looking and thinking. They don't still live in 1946.


  • #36
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I don't see where you are coming from, at all. What would be the German equivalent to "home nations" be in a Dutch context? And would a Dutch person be as annoyed as you are at such a reference? .

    Being obtuse now, are we?
    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Perhaps, seeing as the whole Hitler thing was only 70 years ago. But I've generally found Dutch people to be pretty forward looking and thinking. They don't still live in 1946.

    Are they back in the 1800's with the "home nations" folk?


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  • #37
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Have we got such a national inferiority complex that we're outraged over every little instance of someone, somewhere making even the most tenuous connection between us and the British?


  • #38
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I'm not a soccer fan but it's a pretty common phrase in rugby and I don't know any rugby fans who would think twice about it rather than have it immediately identify the Home Nations.

    To be honest I'm surprised that while Sky had the English rugby Premiership they didn't refer to the four teams as the "GLORIOUS ENGLISH KINGDOM and those peasant Celtic Nations."


  • #39
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I don't see where you are coming from, at all. What would be the German equivalent to "home nations" be in a Dutch context? And would a Dutch person be as annoyed as you are at such a reference? Perhaps, seeing as the whole Hitler thing was only 70 years ago. But I've generally found Dutch people to be pretty forward looking and thinking. They don't still live in 1946.

    It's a cultural comparison. Calling a citizen from the Republic of Ireland - English - will not go down very well. Similar with the Germans and the Dutch. Call a Scot English and you'll get a very similar reaction.

    It's common courtesy to address someone properly. Just as in college I do not address a Professor as Doctor. Of course if someone who didn't know me called me British or English I'd just say no I'm Irish, followed by a joke along the lines of 'jaysus never make that mistake again people have been slapped for less'. Of course this is a joke so don't go bringing this up in a rebuttal.

    In the example I have started this thread with, SKY should know better, and with regards to the shear quantity of business they carry out in Ireland, a little respect towards our identity would go a long way. It is hardly the first time SKY have broadcast about ROI, they should know better.


  • #40
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.


  • #41
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

    Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?


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  • #42
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?

    I was going to say that whoever wrote that is most likely well used to ROI not being referred to as a Home Nation.


  • #43
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

    I think you're confusing hearing kids in your class when you were in primary school saying they were "going to England on holidays" when in actual fact they were going to Wales or Scotland, with common usage of the term "England".

    "England" was never used by anyone educated and aware to describe the other 3 countries in the UK.


  • #44
    robinph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?

    I seem to recall there was a QI a while ago where Mr Fry was referring to a book about the "History of England" as being about the whole of the "British Isles" of the time. The time was about 189x I think.

    All depends on your definition of recent. Geologically it's recent, in pretty much all other definitions it's not.

    Edit: This might have been the book he was on about:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-History-England-English-Library/dp/0140431330

    Seems it was a bit older than I thought.


  • #45
    dan1895
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    I find it funny that someone would get offended at accidentely being called British after subscribing with a British network to watch British tv and British football.


  • #46
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?
    Think back around the 30s or 40s was when the nations started to be defined. Even when England won some minor football competition in 1966 the default flag wasn't the George's Cross but the Union Jack/Flag.


  • #47
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    dan1895 wrote: »
    I find it funny that someone would get offended at accidentely being called British after subscribing with a British network to watch British tv and British football.
    • Not offended per se
    • I don't subscribe to SKY. It's a website I use for sports news.
    • I stream totally completely absolutely legal football streams :P


  • #48
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    dan1895 wrote: »
    I find it funny that someone would get offended at accidentely being called British after subscribing with a British network to watch British tv and British football.
    They should write a strongly worded letter to the Irish Sun, The Irish Daily Mirror or the Irish Daily Mail.


  • #49
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

    New my arse.


  • #50
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    I'll be damned....

    Boards.ie is getting in on this and all now!!! The advertisement on top :P

    4Q1PdLk.png


  • #51
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Think back around the 30s or 40s was when the nations started to be defined. Even when England won some minor football competition in 1966 the default flag wasn't the George's Cross but the Union Jack/Flag.

    Oh FFS. The term England may have been used for Britain ( incorrectly) and English for British( again incorrectly) but Wales and Scotland have existed as nations for centuries.

    As for home nations - I am fine with it. It's not claiming jurisdiction over Ireland just that nations which were home to rugby and soccer tournaments were playing.


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  • #52
    Mr. Wong
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 221 ✭✭Mr. Wong


    Oh the ironing. Man complains about been called British, man has avatar of player playing with a British team and no doubt supports the too.

    Good Lord..


  • #53
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I detest the Republic of Ireland being referred to as part of the United Kingdom.


  • #54
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Mr. Wong wrote: »
    Oh the ironing. Man complains about been called British, man has avatar of player playing with a British team and no doubt supports the too.

    Good Lord..


    ...by which logic any fan of any sport that strongly features foriegn nationals also has lessened their nationality. Presumably this refers to viewing feature films, tv etc as well. What a great and well thought out argument.


  • #55
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    Mr. Wong wrote: »
    Oh the ironing. Man complains about been called British, man has avatar of player playing with a British team and no doubt supports the too.

    Good Lord..

    *being called British. Please sir, here in Ireland we speak English. Do so correctly. :P

    The fact I support Liverpool has very little nothing to do with this. I'm not marching around Dublin burning Union Jacks while wearing a LFC shirt am I?

    I'm simply stating an error was made regarding the classification of Ireland as the Home Nations and that Irks me. If you call me a United supporter I would be similarly irked.

    Plus the Airtricity League is shocking. I buy German food over Irish because it is better too..shock and awe!! And as relevant to this debate as the football team I support.


  • #56
    El Inho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭El Inho


    the_syco wrote: »
    I detest the Republic of Ireland being referred to as part of the United Kingdom.

    I feel the same, but it is not due to the bloody history of the two nations....

    It's because of while i bolded there...we are two separate nations.


  • #57
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    I'd consider it about as malicious as referring to Sweden as part of Scandinavia.


  • #58
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Oh FFS. The term England may have been used for Britain ( incorrectly) and English for British( again incorrectly) but Wales and Scotland have existed as nations for centuries.
    Really now? They haven't existed as independent nations for any great length of time in recent history - semi-autonomous regions at best.

    Union has always been biased in favour of the larger party (England) and not a joining of "equals".


  • #59
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭gallag


    I always call these islands as the home nations, nations means more than one nation, I could understand if someone said the home nation teams but I think saying home nations is reasonable and considering how important our wee islands are to each other and how intertwined our families are it shouldn't be a problem to refer to our separate nations under the warm heading of "home"


  • #60
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gallag wrote: »
    I always call these islands as the home nations, nations means more than one nation, I could understand if someone said the home nation teams but I think saying home nations is reasonable and considering how important our wee islands are to each other and how intertwined our families are it shouldn't be a problem to refer to our separate nations under the warm heading of "home"

    ...jaysus. Thats me shocked now.


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  • #61
    nocoverart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭nocoverart


    Doesn't bother me in the slightest! as was already stated here, It's from a geographical sense and not political. The majority of Irish people are still absurdly petty when it comes to this kind of subject matter.


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