Ireland described as Member of the Home Nations

El Inho

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12020/8600809/National-fail

It was a night of disappointment for the Home Nations as draws for England and Republic of Ireland put their World Cup hopes in danger, while defeats for Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland effectively ended theirs. Here's what the Soccer Special experts made of it all...

Now I'm not usually a stickler for these kind of things, but if someone calls me British I'm quick to correct them. It's not a matter of hating Britain, but instead a matter of being correct.

Would this bother many others? Or is it just me?

Rabbo

It's uneducated at best. What makes it worse though is that Sky should really get these things right with the anount of money they make in this country

Bipolar Joe

It doesn't bug me, because it's never happened to me, which is probably a shit reason. It does bug me that Ireland and England fight over whether or not various celebrities are Irish or English, because it seems really childish.

Most people I've met who weren't aware RoI isn't part of the U.K were put right if it came up in conversation.

sbsquarepants

I have never heard the phrase home nations before!
I too would always correct anyone who calls me british, or english. I'd also correct them if they called me french, or vietnamese or any other nationality bar irish. Doesn't particularly bother me, but it is just wrong, so i correct it.

irishgrover

El Spearo wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12020/8600809/National-fail



Now I'm not usually a stickler for these kind of things, but if someone calls me British I'm quick to correct them. It's not a matter of hating Britain, but instead a matter of being correct.

Would this bother many others? Or is it just me?

It 'might' bother me a little bit. However it would only bit a very little bit, not nearly as much as being called "British" or the term "British Isles", or in Rugby, refering to the British Lions, as opposed to British & Irish Lions.
To me, home nations is a nod towards the shared elements of all the teams, and their similar, but different nature. One possible reason it does not grate me as much as the other terms is that it is somewhat non nationalistic.
of course, each to their own, this is all IMHO

jam_mac_jam

Home nations is used in rugby so maybe that's where the mistake came from but they should know better really

P_1

Personally I think the term 'Home nations' describes the nations from a geographic perspective and not a political one.

awec

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I have never heard the phrase home nations before!
I too would always correct anyone who calls me british, or english. I'd also correct them if they called me french, or vietnamese or any other nationality bar irish. Doesn't particularly bother me, but it is just wrong, so i correct it.

It's mostly a sport term, there used to be an old Home Nations tournament played every year in football between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

mike65

Its just sloppy use of language and a handy/lazy one size fits all short cut.

El Inho

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I have never heard the phrase home nations before!
I too would always correct anyone who calls me british, or english. I'd also correct them if they called me french, or vietnamese or any other nationality bar irish. Doesn't particularly bother me, but it is just wrong, so i correct it.

Yeah they often use the term 'Home Nations' regarding sporting events, naturally referring to British teams within the British Isles (Wales, Scotland, England and N. Ireland).

Actually Irish inclusion in the British Isles is another thing I hold grievances with!

El Inho

mike65 wrote: »

Its just sloppy use of language and a handy/lazy one size fits all short cut.

Absolutely agree and I'm not one to start spouting '800 years' etc :P

P_1 wrote: »

Personally I think the term 'Home nations' describes the nations from a geographic perspective and not a political one.

Yeah I can see this point of view, as well as mikes, but is this an acceptable faux pas or is it offensive?

P_1

awec wrote: »

It's mostly a sport term, there used to be an old Home Nations tournament played every year in football between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

And I believe that the 6 Nations in rugby used to be called the Home Nations Championship with the home nations being England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

It became the 5 nations Championship when the French became involved and the 6 Nations Championship when the Italians came in.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

In all fairness, cultured sophisctication and accuracy is not something I expect from Sky.

P_1

El Spearo wrote: »

Yeah I can see this point of view, as well as mikes, but is this an acceptable faux pas or is it offensive?

Well offence is generally in the eye of the beholder. I don't personally find it offensive but I'm sure that there are many people who would

ClashCityRocker

People were happy enough for us to be part of the "home nations" when Irish fans were boasting that Robbie Keane was the top international scorer on these islands ahead of Bobby Charlton

I think it's a term you only ever hear in a sporting context, it's like when you see the BBC weather and they show GB and NI but leave RoI blank. They clearly don't consider us a home nation then (correctly, of course).

The Backwards Man

How dare a company that has no relevance to our country whatsoever align us with other countries that we have no relevance to whatsoever?

Disgraceful.

mcmoustache

In fairness, it's an easy mistake to make for geographical, cultural, sporting and political reasons.

El Inho

The Backwards Man wrote: »

How dare a company that has no relevance to our country whatsoever align us with other countries that we have no relevance to whatsoever?

Disgraceful.

I think it is an unfortunate fact that SKY hold a substantial stake in Ireland. As a nation, and with a quick Google and speculative assumptions, about one quarter of us subscribe to SKY. That is a considerable number in excess of one million people. That's about €36,000,014 per year (on the most basic package). Excluding movies, sports etc.

So imo the very least the company, whom even have a subsidiary - SKY Ireland - should be careful with how they treat such a large market, ignoring the relative size in comparison to Britain.

Be interesting to see Virgin poke their head into the Irish market.

BBDBB

its nice that they remember to include the problem child

El Spearo

El Spearo wrote: »

I think it is an unfortunate fact that SKY hold a substantial stake in Ireland. As a nation, and with a quick Google and speculative assumptions, about one quarter of us subscribe to SKY. That is a considerable number in excess of one million people. That's about €36,000,014 per year (on the most basic package). Excluding movies, sports etc.

So imo the very least the company, whom even have a subsidiary - SKY Ireland - should be careful with how they treat such a large market, ignoring the relative size in comparison to Britain.

Be interesting to see Virgin poke their head into the Irish market.

Because of one geographical error on a sports report? Thankfully, caveman thinking like yours seems to be slowly dying out these days. Apart from the usual suspects, of course.

El Inho

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Because of one geographical error on a sports report? Thankfully, caveman thinking like yours seems to be slowly dying out these days. Apart from the usual suspects, of course.

Caveman thinking?

I have already stated that it just irks me when a large company can make such a basic error. Hardly 'caveman thinking' to ask for a bit of veracity in reporting to the masses.

anncoates

THOSE BRITS AGAIN

AEDIC

El Spearo wrote: »

I think it is an unfortunate fact that SKY hold a substantial stake in Ireland. As a nation, and with a quick Google and speculative assumptions, about one quarter of us subscribe to SKY. That is a considerable number in excess of one million people. That's about €36,000,014 per year (on the most basic package). Excluding movies, sports etc.

So imo the very least the company, whom even have a subsidiary - SKY Ireland - should be careful with how they treat such a large market, ignoring the relative size in comparison to Britain.

Be interesting to see Virgin poke their head into the Irish market.

So..with such a considerable footprint in Ireland and a company incorporated in Ireland...not such a faux par to be calling Ireland a 'home' nation then...if you look at it in the context of speaking to the viewers that are at home (in Ireland watching sky) and not putting words into their mouths and making assumptions that they actually meant they were calling everyone Brits....

either way..... seriously... 2 pages and counting??

El Spearo

El Spearo wrote: »

Caveman thinking?

I have already stated that it just irks me when a large company can make such a basic error. Hardly 'caveman thinking' to ask for a bit of veracity in reporting to the masses.

No, you're annoyed because you have an inherent disliking for the British based on political power struggles between the two Islands throughout our history. I would imagine this is because you know bits and pieces of revisionist dribble that was taught to you in school, and have picked up the rest from the pub, folk songs, and/or a parent.

Or at least you like to pretend you still hold it against the Brits', while at the same time cheering on the English football teams in the premier league, and watching it on Sky.

It's hypocritical and, like I said, based on cavemen thinking of "us" and "dem".

Nodin

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

No, you're annoyed because you have an inherent disliking for the British based on political power struggles between the two Islands throughout our history. I would imagine this is because you know bits and pieces of revisionist dribble that was taught to you in school, and have picked up the rest from the pub, folk songs, and/or a parent.

Or at least you like to pretend you still hold it against the Brits', while at the same time cheering on the English football teams in the premier league, and watching it on Sky.

It's hypocritical and, like I said, based on cavemen thinking of "us" and "dem".

I'm not sure he's the one who picked up revisionist dribble. Nor, considering the outdated nature of the term in question, would he necessarily be the one with the "caveman thinking".

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

I'm not sure he's the one who picked up revisionist dribble. Nor, considering the outdated nature of the term in question, would he necessarily be the one with the "caveman thinking".

Speak of the devil.

Andrew_Doran

...

El Inho

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

No, you're annoyed because you have an inherent disliking for the British based on political power struggles between the two Islands throughout our history. I would imagine this is because you know bits and pieces of revisionist dribble that was taught to you in school, and have picked up the rest from the pub, folk songs, and/or a parent.

Or at least you like to pretend you still hold it against the Brits', while at the same time cheering on the English football teams in the premier league, and watching it on Sky.

It's hypocritical and, like I said, based on cavemen thinking of "us" and "dem".

Hold your horses there now.

Can't afford SKY have Freeview. And yes I support Liverpool for my sins.
What happened between Ireland and England is well in the past, and is something which I have studied in uni, but not something I take to heart. I have no personal vendetta against 'the brits' as you say.

The fact of the matter is, when writing one must ensure that all the work contained is accurate. Today, a large quantity of people in the UK have read a story which classifies Ireland as a member of the Home Nations, which we simply are not. I've stated that this bugs me. I don't know many Irish people who upon being classes as British, English, Scottish, American or Japanese wouldn't correct someone; as would anybody incorrectly defined. Articles like that don't help the matter of definition.

I accept that the inclusion of Ireland was simply a short cut of convenience for the author, but I'm stating that imo such a shortcut should be frowned upon. The same as calling a German - Dutch would cause a similar reaction.

EDIT:

The highlighted part: I wasn't going to mention my educational background for fear of sounding arrogant, but I am a MA History student currently working on a dissertation, come PhD topic surrounding the building of a national Irish identity following the founding of the Irish Free State.

Sky News is broadcast in Ireland. Saying "Home Nation" was actually talking to you, yes you, watching right now about your home nation (Ireland).

Well that was my interpretation of it anyway.

El Inho

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Sky News is broadcast in Ireland. Saying "Home Nation" was actually talking to you, yes you, watching right now about your home nation (Ireland).

Well that was my interpretation of it anyway.

Given the regular use of the term and indeed the fact it is capitalised, suggests that they are referring to the Home Nations -England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This occurred to me when I first though maybe it was all the nations playing at home, but the capitalisation rules this thought out.

Rented Mule

I'm pretty sure that this would offend even Angela Merkel, since she basically owns our asses.

robinph

The "home nations" is used in Rubgy to mean England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They have just used it in that report as a handy way of describing the group of teams that their viewers are interested in and for the round ball game Ireland happens to have two teams. Bit more of a mouthful for them to have to report something along the lines of "The British teams all played rubbish last night, so did Northern Ireland and so did that other team from Ireland". Their audience is made up of people who are interested in the results of all of the 5 teams.

El Spearo

El Spearo wrote: »

Given the regular use of the term and indeed the fact it is capitalised, suggests that they are referring to the Home Nations -England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This occurred to me when I first though maybe it was all the nations playing at home, but the capitalisation rules this thought out.

Meh, I have more to be worried about. I'm surprised anyone (Irish or English) wanted to be reminded of the score anyway :pac:

El Inho

robinph wrote: »

The "home nations" is used in Rubgy to mean England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. They have just used it in that report as a handy way of describing the group of teams that their viewers are interested in and for the round ball game Ireland happens to have two teams. Bit more of a mouthful for them to have to report something along the lines of "The British teams all played rubbish last night, so did Northern Ireland and so did that other team from Ireland". Their audience is made up of people who are interested in the results of all of the 5 teams.

Yep. Totally agree, it was simply an inclusion of convenience. And I'm pretty sure SKY aren't heading up a secret invasion of ROI anytime soon. Still, it's interesting that they said it, and it's sparked some sort of a conversation on the topic.

El Spearo

El Spearo wrote: »

Hold your horses there now.

Can't afford SKY have Freeview. And yes I support Liverpool for my sins.
What happened between Ireland and England is well in the past, and is something which I have studied in uni, but not something I take to heart. I have no personal vendetta against 'the brits' as you say.

The fact of the matter is, when writing one must ensure that all the work contained is accurate. Today, a large quantity of people in the UK have read a story which classifies Ireland as a member of the Home Nations, which we simply are not. I've stated that this bugs me. I don't know many Irish people who upon being classes as British, English, Scottish, American or Japanese wouldn't correct someone; as would anybody incorrectly defined. Articles like that don't help the matter of definition.

I accept that the inclusion of Ireland was simply a short cut of convenience for the author, but I'm stating that imo such a shortcut should be frowned upon. The same as calling a German - Dutch would cause a similar reaction.

EDIT:

The highlighted part: I wasn't going to mention my educational background for fear of sounding arrogant, but I am a MA History student currently working on a dissertation, come PhD topic surrounding the building of a national Irish identity following the founding of the Irish Free State.

I don't see where you are coming from, at all. What would be the German equivalent to "home nations" be in a Dutch context? And would a Dutch person be as annoyed as you are at such a reference? Perhaps, seeing as the whole Hitler thing was only 70 years ago. But I've generally found Dutch people to be pretty forward looking and thinking. They don't still live in 1946.

Nodin

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I don't see where you are coming from, at all. What would be the German equivalent to "home nations" be in a Dutch context? And would a Dutch person be as annoyed as you are at such a reference? .

Being obtuse now, are we?

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Perhaps, seeing as the whole Hitler thing was only 70 years ago. But I've generally found Dutch people to be pretty forward looking and thinking. They don't still live in 1946.

Are they back in the 1800's with the "home nations" folk?

Chips Lovell

Have we got such a national inferiority complex that we're outraged over every little instance of someone, somewhere making even the most tenuous connection between us and the British?

Lyaiera

I'm not a soccer fan but it's a pretty common phrase in rugby and I don't know any rugby fans who would think twice about it rather than have it immediately identify the Home Nations.

To be honest I'm surprised that while Sky had the English rugby Premiership they didn't refer to the four teams as the "GLORIOUS ENGLISH KINGDOM and those peasant Celtic Nations."

El Inho

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I don't see where you are coming from, at all. What would be the German equivalent to "home nations" be in a Dutch context? And would a Dutch person be as annoyed as you are at such a reference? Perhaps, seeing as the whole Hitler thing was only 70 years ago. But I've generally found Dutch people to be pretty forward looking and thinking. They don't still live in 1946.

It's a cultural comparison. Calling a citizen from the Republic of Ireland - English - will not go down very well. Similar with the Germans and the Dutch. Call a Scot English and you'll get a very similar reaction.

It's common courtesy to address someone properly. Just as in college I do not address a Professor as Doctor. Of course if someone who didn't know me called me British or English I'd just say no I'm Irish, followed by a joke along the lines of 'jaysus never make that mistake again people have been slapped for less'. Of course this is a joke so don't go bringing this up in a rebuttal.

In the example I have started this thread with, SKY should know better, and with regards to the shear quantity of business they carry out in Ireland, a little respect towards our identity would go a long way. It is hardly the first time SKY have broadcast about ROI, they should know better.

Jimoslimos

Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

Fratton Fred

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?

El Inho

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?

I was going to say that whoever wrote that is most likely well used to ROI not being referred to as a Home Nation.

kraggy

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

I think you're confusing hearing kids in your class when you were in primary school saying they were "going to England on holidays" when in actual fact they were going to Wales or Scotland, with common usage of the term "England".

"England" was never used by anyone educated and aware to describe the other 3 countries in the UK.

robinph

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?

I seem to recall there was a QI a while ago where Mr Fry was referring to a book about the "History of England" as being about the whole of the "British Isles" of the time. The time was about 189x I think.

All depends on your definition of recent. Geologically it's recent, in pretty much all other definitions it's not.

Edit: This might have been the book he was on about:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-History-England-English-Library/dp/0140431330

Seems it was a bit older than I thought.

dan1895

I find it funny that someone would get offended at accidentely being called British after subscribing with a British network to watch British tv and British football.

Jimoslimos

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Was it? I must have missed that. How recent is recent? Ten years ago, fifty?

Think back around the 30s or 40s was when the nations started to be defined. Even when England won some minor football competition in 1966 the default flag wasn't the George's Cross but the Union Jack/Flag.

El Inho

dan1895 wrote: »

I find it funny that someone would get offended at accidentely being called British after subscribing with a British network to watch British tv and British football.

• Not offended per se
• I don't subscribe to SKY. It's a website I use for sports news.
• I stream totally completely absolutely legal football streams :P

The Backwards Man

dan1895 wrote: »

I find it funny that someone would get offended at accidentely being called British after subscribing with a British network to watch British tv and British football.

They should write a strongly worded letter to the Irish Sun, The Irish Daily Mirror or the Irish Daily Mail.

Duggys Housemate

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Up until quite recently the terms "England" and "English" were perfectly acceptable and in common use to describe Britain and its inhabitants. The whole notion of a shared kingdom comprised of nations of equal standing is rather new.

New my arse.

El Inho

I'll be damned....

Boards.ie is getting in on this and all now!!! The advertisement on top :P

Duggys Housemate

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Think back around the 30s or 40s was when the nations started to be defined. Even when England won some minor football competition in 1966 the default flag wasn't the George's Cross but the Union Jack/Flag.

Oh FFS. The term England may have been used for Britain ( incorrectly) and English for British( again incorrectly) but Wales and Scotland have existed as nations for centuries.

As for home nations - I am fine with it. It's not claiming jurisdiction over Ireland just that nations which were home to rugby and soccer tournaments were playing.