Council workers suspended after fixing massive pothole without permission

Madam_X · 27-03-2013 12:27AM

"Banana republic" I'd associate more with Latin American countries like Honduras and Guatemala. Bit of a jump to compare those to Ireland, which is a far more pleasant, stable place in which to live.

Bullseye1 · 27-03-2013 12:28AM

It's over regulated and poorly managed. And just as corrupt.

Madam_X · 27-03-2013 12:30AM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

just as corrupt.

Not sure about that.

Bullseye1 · 27-03-2013 12:33AM

Tell that to Bertie and Charlie. We also have known tax evaders and suspected murders in the Dail.

Dwork · 27-03-2013 12:35AM

On the upside, this must be the first PS thread ever to not involve bashing them for not working...hold on..nope....sorry....carry on. it's all good.

wil · 27-03-2013 01:19AM

Madam_X wrote: »

"Banana republic" I'd associate more with Latin American countries like Honduras and Guatemala. Bit of a jump to compare those to Ireland, which is a far more pleasant, stable place in which to live.

Obviously lost on you, would you prefer "Septic Isle"?

There's a lot of history repeated in the last 5 years

"Glad to see the place again
It's a pity nothing's changed"

Lando Griffin · 27-03-2013 01:39AM

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

mikom · 27-03-2013 01:44AM

Where was the health and safety for the poor cunt on a motorbike hitting the unfilled pothole?

Probably on his way to pay his property tax as well...........

Boombastic · 27-03-2013 01:45AM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

Padded walls and plastic corners on the sheets of paper

Without pay the Indo are reporting

"A number of staff were initially suspended with pay. Following an investigation, they were then suspended without pay," a council spokesman said

shopaholic01 · 27-03-2013 01:49AM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

Eh... didn't you start a thread about cutting your knee in work, and how brave you were when a bandaid was put over it?

awec · 27-03-2013 01:49AM

Common sense goes out the window where Health and Safety is concerned. Some jobsworth gets employed to carry a clipboard as the health and safety inspector for councils and what not, desperately trying to make themselves feel relevant.

The way these boys get on it's a miracle that our species has managed to survive until the year 2013.

SB2013 · 27-03-2013 02:01AM

i found this to be absolutely ridiculous. It's not like they were dressed as ninjas sneaking in the middle of the night to repair a pothole on a busy night. Councils tend to have nice yellow trucks and workers wear illuminous jackets. The idea that you have to put up traffic controls for a few minutes work on a pothole is ludicrous. Are drivers gone that ****ing retarded in this country that they can't negotiate a small visible obstacle without crashing?

That's aside from the damage this does to productivity. Other workers will see this and say "**** initiative". And this isn't the only area in the public sector where health and safety rules have killed work rate. No wonder nothing gets done in this country.

Lando Griffin · 27-03-2013 02:03AM

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Eh... didn't you start a thread about cutting your knee in work, and how brave you were when a bandaid was put over it?

And that particular bit of loose concrete his been repaired and everyone is safe again.

Thinkingaboutit · 27-03-2013 02:06AM

Chucken wrote: »

How many men does it take to fill in a pothole?
Does common sense not come into play here at all?

They probably have a better Union than Mayo County Council outdoor staff, so 10 probably. They need to have three lorries with men snoozing in them, or it's a violation of Croke Park II, or whatever it's called.

Maudi · 27-03-2013 02:06AM

Terry1985 wrote: »

i would say there's more to this story.
maybe they filled in a pothole on a friend or family members road
and was caught using council resources unofficially.

i call bullsh1t on this story.

yes.your right!!i also call bull****!! on your story.

Madam_X · 27-03-2013 02:09AM

So if this "jobsworth" (never understood the objection to a person doing their job when they face consequences if they don't) whom ye haven't the faintest idea of, was to just sweep it under the carpet and thus get suspended/lose their job, that would be grand.

Seriously, you haven't a clue of all the facts so how can you judge? Doubt the decision was that of one just one person anyway.

opinion guy · 27-03-2013 02:15AM

Madam_X wrote: »

"Banana republic" I'd associate more with Latin American countries like Honduras and Guatemala. Bit of a jump to compare those to Ireland, which is a far more pleasant, stable place in which to live.

ok there is this thing called sarcasm that you might want to look up

awec · 27-03-2013 02:17AM

Madam_X wrote: »

So if this "jobsworth" (never understood the objection to a person doing their job when they face consequences if they don't) whom ye haven't the faintest idea of, was to just sweep it under the carpet and thus get suspended/lose their job, that would be grand.

Seriously, you haven't a clue of all the facts so how can you judge? Doubt the decision was that of one just one person anyway.

Well, a health and safety inspector is surely going to believe in the health and safety rules they are hired to enforce.

I mean if it were me, I'd be mortified at the nonsense I was promoting in my employment.

Irish Steve · 27-03-2013 02:27AM

This is probably only half of the story.

The first thing will be for someone to investigate the pothole, and evaluate the risk involved in leaving it, and evaluate the risk involved in repairing it.

A report on the required safety signage will then have to be produced, probably in duplicate, and approved by the relevant managers.

More than likely, a site safety notice will have to be prepared and posted in the area to inform concerned citizens of any possible disruption.

When the statutory notice period has expired, the relevant section of the road will then be closed off by the careful placing of all the legally required signs, cones, warnings and lights, which have to be put in place by suitably equipped vehicles, and staff wearing the correct approved safety clothing, and in possession of ALL of the required training certificates allowing them to carry out the work

Once the site has been inspected and declared safe, the relevant work can then be carried out.

Upon completion of the repair, the work must be inspected for correct materials and work practice. All lines and other safety indications and signs must be inspected for correctness and completeness

Once the work is deemed to be correct, it must then be left safe but with the road closed to allow the materials used to stabilise and become firm.

When certified complete, the signs, cones and other warnings can then be removed by suitably trained and equipped operatives. Caution. The certificates required to remove the signs and warnings may not be the same as those required to place the warnings..

The road can then again be used by traffic.

If this process takes less than a week, someone is working too hard, or part of the process has been overlooked or omitted, or a breach of the regulations has occurred, and MUST be investigated by an external inspector.

If by some unfortunate circumstance, an electric cable, or a gas pipe is found in a pothole, then you are in serious trouble, as work involving these extra factors requires significant extra training and certification.

BANANA REPUBLIC

In Exile · 27-03-2013 02:41AM

Could the health and safety fella who passed by, not have stopped, put on a yellow vest and held one of them "careful now" signs for any oncoming cars?

grotmaster · 27-03-2013 02:42AM

SB2013 wrote: »

i found this to be absolutely ridiculous. It's not like they were dressed as ninjas sneaking in the middle of the night to repair a pothole on a busy night. Councils tend to have nice yellow trucks and workers wear illuminous jackets. The idea that you have to put up traffic controls for a few minutes work on a pothole is ludicrous. Are drivers gone that ****ing retarded in this country that they can't negotiate a small visible obstacle without crashing?

That's aside from the damage this does to productivity. Other workers will see this and say "**** initiative". And this isn't the only area in the public sector where health and safety rules have killed work rate. No wonder nothing gets done in this country.

I assume you've never worked on the public highway. You absolutely have to put in traffic controls for the "retarded" drivers. From the twin cam gang mowing it around the bend to Granny clutching at her rosary, unbelievably stupid driving happens in roadworks all the time.

RainyDay · 27-03-2013 12:04PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

This is probably only half of the story.

The first thing will be for someone to investigate the pothole, and evaluate the risk involved in leaving it, and evaluate the risk involved in repairing it.

A report on the required safety signage will then have to be produced, probably in duplicate, and approved by the relevant managers.

More than likely, a site safety notice will have to be prepared and posted in the area to inform concerned citizens of any possible disruption.

When the statutory notice period has expired, the relevant section of the road will then be closed off by the careful placing of all the legally required signs, cones, warnings and lights, which have to be put in place by suitably equipped vehicles, and staff wearing the correct approved safety clothing, and in possession of ALL of the required training certificates allowing them to carry out the work

Once the site has been inspected and declared safe, the relevant work can then be carried out.

Upon completion of the repair, the work must be inspected for correct materials and work practice. All lines and other safety indications and signs must be inspected for correctness and completeness

Once the work is deemed to be correct, it must then be left safe but with the road closed to allow the materials used to stabilise and become firm.

When certified complete, the signs, cones and other warnings can then be removed by suitably trained and equipped operatives. Caution. The certificates required to remove the signs and warnings may not be the same as those required to place the warnings..

The road can then again be used by traffic.

If this process takes less than a week, someone is working too hard, or part of the process has been overlooked or omitted, or a breach of the regulations has occurred, and MUST be investigated by an external inspector.

If by some unfortunate circumstance, an electric cable, or a gas pipe is found in a pothole, then you are in serious trouble, as work involving these extra factors requires significant extra training and certification.

BANANA REPUBLIC

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

I'm not sure why people need to exaggerate to make their point. No-one is looking for paperwork or little plastic corners. They're just looking for someone to keep the cars away from the road crews. Two county council workers have been killed at roadworks in the past year. Of course the county council is rightfully going to be cautious to protect their staff.

mikom wrote: »

Where was the health and safety for the poor .... on a motorbike hitting the unfilled pothole?

..........

Potholes can occur anywhere, anytime. Drivers and bikers need to allow for this, and drive in a manner that allows them to safely avoid obstacles.

awec wrote: »

Well, a health and safety inspector is surely going to believe in the health and safety rules they are hired to enforce.

I mean if it were me, I'd be mortified at the nonsense I was promoting in my employment.

Good H&S staff don't put up with nonsense. The Health and Safety Executive in the UK have done a great job of getting rid of the nonsense H&S decisions by ridiculing them; http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/top10myths.htm

Good H&S staff save lives and keep Directors out of prison. They are invaluable to an organisation.

SB2013 · 27-03-2013 12:19PM

grotmaster wrote: »

I assume you've never worked on the public highway. You absolutely have to put in traffic controls for the "retarded" drivers. From the twin cam gang mowing it around the bend to Granny clutching at her rosary, unbelievably stupid driving happens in roadworks all the time.

I've been at plenty a situation where traffic has been able to navigate safely around obstacles without anyone directing them, and I'm not talking about anything so visible as men in illuminous jackets in broad daylight.

When the extra manpower is there it's good to have someone controlling traffic but in general it just improves traffic flow and doesn't make it safer. The fact is that these workers made the road safer, not more dangerous.

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm not sure why people need to exaggerate to make their point. No-one is looking for paperwork or little plastic corners. They're just looking for someone to keep the cars away from the road crews. Two county council workers have been killed at roadworks in the past year. Of course the county council is rightfully going to be cautious to protect their staff.

That's easily done by positioning their vehicle between them and the oncoming traffic. A council truck would be much more effective at protecting them than a guy with a stop/go sign.

RainyDay wrote: »

Potholes can occur anywhere, anytime. Drivers and bikers need to allow for this, and drive in a manner that allows them to safely avoid obstacles.

Just so we are clear. Drivers and cyclists should drive in a manner that allows for potholes but not for roadworks? I think it would be much easier to see the latter.

RainyDay wrote: »

Good H&S staff don't put up with nonsense. The Health and Safety Executive in the UK have done a great job of getting rid of the nonsense H&S decisions by ridiculing them; http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/top10myths.htm

Good H&S staff save lives and keep Directors out of prison. They are invaluable to an organisation.

And where are the examples of this happening in Ireland?

Larbre34 · 27-03-2013 01:13PM

A lot of misinformed hysterics on here.

In 2012 a lad was killed in south Dublin while repairing a loose chamber cover on a public road. He had been tasked by a private contractor and the investigation into the specifics of the incident surrounded deficient safety protocols and traffic management. Do safety requirements look 'fussy' now?

The fact the case in question was Council lads on a public road makes no difference. Imagine you were the manager of an industrial site, and the workers decided to crank up the machinery without approval or supervision to do a small bit of work they thought would be 'alright' I know I'd have a fit.

Corporate Manslaughter is very real and very enforced. Ask Bus Eireann, Meath County Council, Wicklow County Council or the directors of a significant number of farms, plants and sites. If you were the director the buck stopped with, would you want a couple of irresponsible staff taking chances with your liberty and reputation?

Suspension and investigation is the very least that should happen here.

Mr Benevolent · 27-03-2013 01:16PM

washman3 wrote: »

BANANA REPUBLIC.......:mad:

Surely you mean Potato Republic?

gobnaitolunacy · 27-03-2013 01:37PM

donvito99 wrote: »

In Spain it would take just one bloke.

In Soviet Russia, potholes fill you!

RainyDay · 27-03-2013 02:08PM

SB2013 wrote: »

I've been at plenty a situation where traffic has been able to navigate safely around obstacles without anyone directing them, and I'm not talking about anything so visible as men in illuminous jackets in broad daylight.

When the extra manpower is there it's good to have someone controlling traffic but in general it just improves traffic flow and doesn't make it safer. The fact is that these workers made the road safer, not more dangerous.

That's easily done by positioning their vehicle between them and the oncoming traffic. A council truck would be much more effective at protecting them than a guy with a stop/go sign.

I guess the families of the two workers killed at roadworks over the past year might have a different view on your simplistic solutions. Strangely enough, council trucks would only impact traffic from one direction, and most roads have two-way traffic on them.

SB2013 wrote: »

Just so we are clear. Drivers and cyclists should drive in a manner that allows for potholes but not for roadworks? I think it would be much easier to see the latter.

Indeed, you'd think that drivers would drive safely around such obstacles, but the evidence of two people killed in the past year suggests otherwise.

SB2013 wrote: »

And where are the examples of this happening in Ireland?

They happen every day, quietly and without fuss or drama. Check out some of the safety related groups on LinkedIn if you want to hook up with sensible, practical H&S experts who provide practical and safe solutions to problems every day of the week. Unfortunately 'risk mitigated' tends not to make newspaper headlines.

SB2013 · 27-03-2013 03:00PM

RainyDay wrote: »

I guess the families of the two workers killed at roadworks over the past year might have a different view on your simplistic solutions. Strangely enough, council trucks would only impact traffic from one direction, and most roads have two-way traffic on them.

One would presume that if roadworks were happening on both sides of the road the road would be closed. If they are only happening on one side you need only protect against the oncoming traffic on the lane in which you are working.

RainyDay wrote: »

Indeed, you'd think that drivers would drive safely around such obstacles, but the evidence of two people killed in the past year suggests otherwise.

Those two stories you linked have no mention of what actually caused the crashes. In actual fact, even with the most stringent safety measures accidents still happen. Sure you can try and account for every possible cause to the extent where nothing actually gets done but tragedies will happen even in the best of circumstances.

RainyDay · 27-03-2013 06:03PM

SB2013 wrote: »

One would presume that if roadworks were happening on both sides of the road the road would be closed. If they are only happening on one side you need only protect against the oncoming traffic on the lane in which you are working.

That's the kind of thinking that gets people killed. You park your van on your side of the road. Then a car coming on your side of the road crosses over to the other side of the road to pass the van. Then a truck coming the other direction speeds round the bend to face into an oncoming car on his side of the road, and in an automatic reaction, heads towards the side of the road that doesn't appear to have a car on it, heading straight for the road works and the road workers.

Proper safety management will avoid this and other scenarios.

SB2013 wrote: »

Those two stories you linked have no mention of what actually caused the clashes. In actual fact, even with the most stringent safety measures accidents still happen. Sure you can try and account for every possible cause to the extent where nothing actually gets done but tragedies will happen even in the best of circumstances.

Accident is really a misleading term, as it implies that it was no-one's fault. These kinds of incidents are generally avoidable, with the right kind of sensible, practical safety planning.

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Accidents_and_Behaviour/

That doesn't mean wrapping everyone in cotton wool. It means taking sensible proper precautions to avoid and reduce risk.

Cork Co Co have precautions in place to protect the lives of their staff. If staff ignore these precautions, they pay the price.

Coll1e · 27-03-2013 11:07PM

Chucken wrote: »

A spokesperson from the Health and Safety Authority told TheJournal.ie that the decision to suspend the three men was taken by Cork County Council.

“There is no regulation that specifies the number of people required to fill a pothole. The regulation is that the work has to be carried out in a safe manner,”

Well obviously the work wasn't carried out in a safe manner or they wouldn't have been suspended. Do you actually propose doing away with policies in line with national regulations in favour of workers just making it up as they go along? You haven't got a clue. Are you aware of the workers that have been killed on the roads in the last year?

Council workers suspended after fixing massive pothole without permission

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