Council workers suspended after fixing massive pothole without permission

Chucken

Two council road repair staff in the Republic of Ireland have been suspended from their posts after deciding on their own initiative, to fill in a pothole they believed posed a danger to road users.

They were assigned to repair a number of potholes three weeks ago and, having completed their task, were on their way back to their council depot when they spotted another pothole.

While this was not on their repair list, they deemed it was a potential road hazard which required immediate repair.

They were in the process of fixing the pothole when a health and safety inspector spotted that the work was under way.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/council-workers-suspended-after-fixing-massive-pothole-without-permission-29155359.html

Is the world gone mad? These workers decided to work on their own initiative and could end up losing their jobs because of some jobsworth who wouldn't know a days work if it jumped up and bit him.:mad:

RainyDay

Yeah, sure what could go wrong with a little bit of roadworks. It's not like they're dangerous or anything.

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2012/11/23/cork-county-council-worker-dies-following-workplace-accident/

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/council-worker-dies-after-being-hit-by-car-at-roadworks-28956601.html

kaimera

read the article.

they were down 2 men to properly do the work.

h&s guy was doing his job ffs.

imagine the headlines if the two lads were killed while filling the pothole.

The Backwards Man

Wee bit misleading there, they were suspended for not having two men in don'tknockmedown jackets and lollipops either side of the hole.

donvito99

In Spain it would take just one bloke.

Terry1985

i would say there's more to this story.
maybe they filled in a pothole on a friend or family members road
and was caught using council resources unofficially.

i call bullsh1t on this story.

Boombastic

From potholes.ie

1541 Issues Reported
1311 Outstanding Issues
230 Issues Fixed


That's less that 1 a day. How many people are employed across the country to fix potholes? This is H&S gone mad. I suppose a driver on a motorbike hitting the pothole would be so much safer and healthier

Dwork

They're not the first lads to get in trouble for filling the wrong hole on the way home. On another note, one of the jobs we do is fill potholes, usually on Industrial estate roads. In one day, we can fill an awful, awful lot of holes. It baffles me how the council workers do so few and yet manage to do them so badly. Two shovels of loose tar flung into a hole does not a repair make. And yet, to do a good job, takes about five minutes. Why the hell don't they standardise the procedure for filling a pothole? It's not rocket science, there are great new products available now that are fast and easy to use and how hard is it to square off, dig out, put in some new hardcore, whack it down, bung in new tar, level and compact it? Job done and it lasts. I usually shake my head when I see them at it. It's just messing really.

Chucken

kaimera wrote: »

they were down 2 men to properly do the work.

How many men does it take to fill in a pothole?
Does common sense not come into play here at all?

washman3

BANANA REPUBLIC.......:mad:

Coll1e

[QUOTE=Council workers suspended after fixing massive pothole without permission.
[/QUOTE]

Simply untrue. They should have had a bit more cop on. Councils spend a fortune on educating their staff on health and safety and these guys ignore it. Not a very intelligent way to show initiative.
Hopefully they don't lose their jobs tho. Think they may have learned their lesson now.

shopaholic01

Am I imagining that members of the public are now allowed to repair potholes?
It was proposed at one stage. Does that require 4 people to satisfy H&S? This is up there with the school that banned triangular flapjacks.

Ilik Urgee

Dwork wrote: »

They're not the first lads to get in trouble for filling the wrong hole on the way home.

I'm sure the CO. Council test for color-blindness on employment.

shopaholic01

Chucken wrote: »

How many men does it take to fill in a pothole

Are they blond :pac:?

catallus

Common sense is all very well, but the rules are there to protect the workers in a dangerous environment. You need to follow the rules so no-one gets hurt!

Boombastic

Coll1e wrote: »

Simply untrue. They should have had a bit more cop on. Councils spend a fortune on educating their staff on health and safety and these guys ignore it. Not a very intelligent way to show initiative.
Hopefully they don't lose their jobs tho. Think they may have learned their lesson now.

Was it on a straight stretch of road?
Was it broad daylight?
There's more to risk assessment than reading a generic mannual

shopaholic01 wrote: »

......This is up there with the school that banned triangular flapjacks.

Ha, I was thinking of that

mccarthy37

You cant beat the County Council's logic here eh, two men caught working are suspended. The next time you see a few council worker's leaning on their shovel's don't jump to conclusions they are probably awaiting further instruction's.

Chucken

Coll1e wrote: »

Simply untrue. They should have had a bit more cop on. Councils spend a fortune on educating their staff on health and safety and these guys ignore it. Not a very intelligent way to show initiative.
Hopefully they don't lose their jobs tho. Think they may have learned their lesson now.

A spokesperson from the Health and Safety Authority told TheJournal.ie that the decision to suspend the three men was taken by Cork County Council.

“There is no regulation that specifies the number of people required to fill a pothole. The regulation is that the work has to be carried out in a safe manner,”

Wibbs

I'm reserving judgement(barely) until more facts come in. There may well be a reasonable issue going on here, but going on previous clipboard ticking utter gobshítism in such things, I'll be equally surprised if there isn't.

Littlehorny

This was on the Last Word earlier and they said it was 3 workers all with 30 years experience each, they were not the type of men to do work in a dangerous manner or take risks. Jesus all we do is give out about councils that dont fill in the potholes.
These men could have preventented an accident with that work, whats health and safety about leaving a dirty great pothole in the road?

shopaholic01

At this rate they'll have to close a road for a day to complete a risk assessment, devise a strategy specifically designed to the requirements of each individual pothole and then test the repair to ensure it meets relevant H&S standards.

It's a hole in the road, not a remarkable feat of modern engineering.

trouttrout

washman3 wrote: »

BANANA REPUBLIC.......:mad:

Christ this phrase annoys me so much on here. You belong with the rest of the attention seeking loons in the comment section of thejournal.ie

Boombastic

mccarthy37 wrote: »

................two men caught working are suspended. .....................

I'd say this could be the real issue. The pen pushers in the office had their noses put out of joint and their authority undermined by the labourers :pac:

Dwork

trouttrout wrote: »

Christ this phrase annoys me so much on here. You belong with the rest of the attention seeking loons in the comment section of thejournal.ie

Geldof must drive you nuts.

Madam_X

Chucken wrote: »

These workers decided to work on their own initiative and could end up losing their jobs because of some jobsworth who wouldn't know a days work if it jumped up and bit him.:mad:

In fairness, apart from the first bit, you don't know whether any of the rest of it is actually applicable.

I think it's very laudable of the guys to take it upon themselves to do that work, and suspension seems really harsh, but none of us have a clue of the background to the decision, and where/whom it ultimately came from. We live in an extremely litigious culture - who's to say the council wasn't answerable to a legal body?

It's a completely threadbare story designed to cause kneejerk reactions, which it has succeeded in doing.

Boombastic

The investigation is expected to take several weeks to complete



Seriously, several weeks wtf?

Dwork

Madam_X wrote: »

In fairness, apart from the first bit, you don't know whether any of the rest of it is actually applicable.

I think it's very laudable of the guys to take it upon themselves to do that work, and suspension seems really harsh, but none of us have a clue of the background to the decision, and where/whom it ultimately came from. We live in an extremely litigious culture - who's to say the council wasn't answerable to a legal body?

It's a completely threadbare story designed to cause kneejerk reactions, which it has succeeded in doing.

No, this comes on foot of a recent accident in Kildare where a Council worker was killed by a motorist while engaged in roadworks. The entire operational methodology of Council roadworks is now being overhauled and put under the microscope as that accident will expose KCC to a huge liability, no doubt.

I happen to know both parties in that accident, the motorist and the council worker who was tragically fatally injured. I would imagine that all council health and Safety officers have been instructed to work to the letter of the law when it comes to correct procedure for live-traffic works. Which is no doubt right and proper. Sadly, this will lead to absolutely sweet feck all getting done as when you do it by the letter of the book, that's what happens. Very little. But safely. So, two sides, but probably a bad outcome for any holes that are begging to be filled.

washman3

trouttrout wrote: »

Christ this phrase annoys me so much on here. You belong with the rest of the attention seeking loons in the comment section of thejournal.ie

Apologies if i have upset you and i promise not to type those words again.!


BANANA REPUBLIC.................


P.S. this is after hours forum bud, always be prepared.

shopaholic01

Boombastic wrote: »

The investigation is expected to take several weeks to complete



Seriously, several weeks wtf?

Yes, weeks of pen pushing, compiling and forwarding of reports and the issuing of 'recommendations'.

Bullseye1

Boombastic wrote: »

From potholes.ie

1541 Issues Reported
1311 Outstanding Issues
230 Issues Fixed


That's less that 1 a day. How many people are employed across the country to fix potholes? This is H&S gone mad. I suppose a driver on a motorbike hitting the pothole would be so much safer and healthier

washman3 wrote: »

BANANA REPUBLIC.......:mad:

trouttrout wrote: »

Christ this phrase annoys me so much on here. You belong with the rest of the attention seeking loons in the comment section of thejournal.ie

Boombastic wrote: »

The investigation is expected to take several weeks to complete



Seriously, several weeks wtf?

How else would you describe this country? And how it's run.

Dwork

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How else would you describe this country? And how it's run.

Effusive?

Madam_X

"Banana republic" I'd associate more with Latin American countries like Honduras and Guatemala. Bit of a jump to compare those to Ireland, which is a far more pleasant, stable place in which to live.

Bullseye1

It's over regulated and poorly managed. And just as corrupt.

Madam_X

Bullseye1 wrote: »

just as corrupt.

Not sure about that.

Bullseye1

Tell that to Bertie and Charlie. We also have known tax evaders and suspected murders in the Dail.

Dwork

On the upside, this must be the first PS thread ever to not involve bashing them for not working...hold on..nope....sorry....carry on. it's all good.

wil

Madam_X wrote: »

"Banana republic" I'd associate more with Latin American countries like Honduras and Guatemala. Bit of a jump to compare those to Ireland, which is a far more pleasant, stable place in which to live.

Obviously lost on you, would you prefer "Septic Isle"?

There's a lot of history repeated in the last 5 years

"Glad to see the place again
It's a pity nothing's changed"

Lando Griffin

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

mikom

Where was the health and safety for the poor cunt on a motorbike hitting the unfilled pothole?

Probably on his way to pay his property tax as well...........

Boombastic

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

Padded walls and plastic corners on the sheets of paper


Without pay the Indo are reporting

"A number of staff were initially suspended with pay. Following an investigation, they were then suspended without pay," a council spokesman said

shopaholic01

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im delighted that they are suspended for a few weeks hopefully on full pay.
Id love to know what's it like to work in a H&S office.
Are there little plastic corners on the tables?
A sign over the kettle to remind ones self that you can burn yourself with the steam?
Empty boxes all around the place in case the might ever get too heavy for someone to manually lift it.

Eh... didn't you start a thread about cutting your knee in work, and how brave you were when a bandaid was put over it?

awec

Common sense goes out the window where Health and Safety is concerned. Some jobsworth gets employed to carry a clipboard as the health and safety inspector for councils and what not, desperately trying to make themselves feel relevant.

The way these boys get on it's a miracle that our species has managed to survive until the year 2013.

SB2013

i found this to be absolutely ridiculous. It's not like they were dressed as ninjas sneaking in the middle of the night to repair a pothole on a busy night. Councils tend to have nice yellow trucks and workers wear illuminous jackets. The idea that you have to put up traffic controls for a few minutes work on a pothole is ludicrous. Are drivers gone that ****ing retarded in this country that they can't negotiate a small visible obstacle without crashing?

That's aside from the damage this does to productivity. Other workers will see this and say "**** initiative". And this isn't the only area in the public sector where health and safety rules have killed work rate. No wonder nothing gets done in this country.

Lando Griffin

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Eh... didn't you start a thread about cutting your knee in work, and how brave you were when a bandaid was put over it?

And that particular bit of loose concrete his been repaired and everyone is safe again.

Thinkingaboutit

Chucken wrote: »

How many men does it take to fill in a pothole?
Does common sense not come into play here at all?

They probably have a better Union than Mayo County Council outdoor staff, so 10 probably. They need to have three lorries with men snoozing in them, or it's a violation of Croke Park II, or whatever it's called.

Maudi

Terry1985 wrote: »

i would say there's more to this story.
maybe they filled in a pothole on a friend or family members road
and was caught using council resources unofficially.

i call bullsh1t on this story.

yes.your right!!i also call bull****!! on your story.

Madam_X

So if this "jobsworth" (never understood the objection to a person doing their job when they face consequences if they don't) whom ye haven't the faintest idea of, was to just sweep it under the carpet and thus get suspended/lose their job, that would be grand.

Seriously, you haven't a clue of all the facts so how can you judge? Doubt the decision was that of one just one person anyway.

opinion guy

Madam_X wrote: »

"Banana republic" I'd associate more with Latin American countries like Honduras and Guatemala. Bit of a jump to compare those to Ireland, which is a far more pleasant, stable place in which to live.

ok there is this thing called sarcasm that you might want to look up

awec

Madam_X wrote: »

So if this "jobsworth" (never understood the objection to a person doing their job when they face consequences if they don't) whom ye haven't the faintest idea of, was to just sweep it under the carpet and thus get suspended/lose their job, that would be grand.

Seriously, you haven't a clue of all the facts so how can you judge? Doubt the decision was that of one just one person anyway.

Well, a health and safety inspector is surely going to believe in the health and safety rules they are hired to enforce.

I mean if it were me, I'd be mortified at the nonsense I was promoting in my employment.

Irish Steve

This is probably only half of the story.

The first thing will be for someone to investigate the pothole, and evaluate the risk involved in leaving it, and evaluate the risk involved in repairing it.

A report on the required safety signage will then have to be produced, probably in duplicate, and approved by the relevant managers.

More than likely, a site safety notice will have to be prepared and posted in the area to inform concerned citizens of any possible disruption.

When the statutory notice period has expired, the relevant section of the road will then be closed off by the careful placing of all the legally required signs, cones, warnings and lights, which have to be put in place by suitably equipped vehicles, and staff wearing the correct approved safety clothing, and in possession of ALL of the required training certificates allowing them to carry out the work

Once the site has been inspected and declared safe, the relevant work can then be carried out.

Upon completion of the repair, the work must be inspected for correct materials and work practice. All lines and other safety indications and signs must be inspected for correctness and completeness

Once the work is deemed to be correct, it must then be left safe but with the road closed to allow the materials used to stabilise and become firm.

When certified complete, the signs, cones and other warnings can then be removed by suitably trained and equipped operatives. Caution. The certificates required to remove the signs and warnings may not be the same as those required to place the warnings..

The road can then again be used by traffic.

If this process takes less than a week, someone is working too hard, or part of the process has been overlooked or omitted, or a breach of the regulations has occurred, and MUST be investigated by an external inspector.

If by some unfortunate circumstance, an electric cable, or a gas pipe is found in a pothole, then you are in serious trouble, as work involving these extra factors requires significant extra training and certification.

BANANA REPUBLIC

In Exile

Could the health and safety fella who passed by, not have stopped, put on a yellow vest and held one of them "careful now" signs for any oncoming cars?