Ireland to build 'giant' wind turbines to power UK homes

Chloe Pink · 22-03-2013 05:21PM

Markcheese wrote: »

Easiest way to find out what the noise level would be to take a road trip on a fine breezy day, bring a travel seat ,a book a flask and an open mind. Set up about 500 meters from turbine and start reading.
Don't know much about light flicker, would it be much different to a tree's branches ?

Light and shadow flicker can be controlled inside peoples houses by switching off the relevant turbines at the relevant times but for this to happen a planning condition to this effect must be included in any grant of planning permission .

Your suggestion for assessing the noise of wind turbines is curious, if the matter is as straighforward as you suggest why on earth are acousticians required at all for assessing wind turbine developments - in Denmark and the UK noise considerations are a major aspect of wind turbine planning applications and noise limits from the turbines have to be set and not breached.

Of the many considerations missing from your suggested assessment methodology, the most obvious one is that of assessing low frequency noise from wind turbines, from inside peoples houses as they do in Denmark.
Obviously if you're sat outside on your travel seat you won't be able to gage the low frequency noise experienced inside neighbouring houses.
As Deremol points out, the turbines proposed for this development are much larger in terms of MW, the signifncance of this is pointed out in this research:
http://asadl.org/jasa/resource/1/jas...sAuthorized=no
"The relative amount of low-frequency noise is higher for large turbines (2.3–3.6 MW) than for small turbines (≤ 2 MW), and the difference is statistically significant."
"It is thus beyond any doubt that the low-frequency part of the spectrum plays an important role in the noise at the neighbors."

I notice you made a comment about 'idling' tractors.
The decible Sound Ruler doesn't mention the word 'idling', to be precise, it says "Farm Tractor" 98 decibels
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Sounds/Decibles.

Furthermore the Danish Environmental Protection Agency website says of 100 dB - "This is only slightly less than a typical modern turbine generating 2-3 MW" so the Farm Tractor at 98dB is an understatement
"100dB - Train / garbage truck" and "103dB - Jet flyover at 100" feet are more like it.
http://www.mst.dk/English/Noise/wind_turbine_noise/noise_from_wind_turbines/noise_from_wind_turbines.htm

Duggys Housemate · 22-03-2013 06:49PM

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Light and shadow flicker can be controlled inside peoples houses by switching off the relevant turbines at the relevant times but for this to happen a planning condition to this effect must be included in any grant of planning permission .

Your suggestion for assessing the noise of wind turbines is curious, if the matter is as straighforward as you suggest why on earth are acousticians required at all for assessing wind turbine developments - in Denmark and the UK noise considerations are a major aspect of wind turbine planning applications and noise limits from the turbines have to be set and not breached.

Of the many considerations missing from your suggested assessment methodology, the most obvious one is that of assessing low frequency noise from wind turbines, from inside peoples houses as they do in Denmark.
Obviously if you're sat outside on your travel seat you won't be able to gage the low frequency noise experienced inside neighbouring houses.
As Deremol points out, the turbines proposed for this development are much larger in terms of MW, the signifncance of this is pointed out in this research:
http://asadl.org/jasa/resource/1/jas...sAuthorized=no
"The relative amount of low-frequency noise is higher for large turbines (2.3–3.6 MW) than for small turbines (≤ 2 MW), and the difference is statistically significant."
"It is thus beyond any doubt that the low-frequency part of the spectrum plays an important role in the noise at the neighbors."

I notice you made a comment about 'idling' tractors.
The decible Sound Ruler doesn't mention the word 'idling', to be precise, it says "Farm Tractor" 98 decibels
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Sounds/Decibles.

Furthermore the Danish Environmental Protection Agency website says of 100 dB - "This is only slightly less than a typical modern turbine generating 2-3 MW" so the Farm Tractor at 98dB is an understatement
"100dB - Train / garbage truck" and "103dB - Jet flyover at 100" feet are more like it.
http://www.mst.dk/English/Noise/wind_turbine_noise/noise_from_wind_turbines/noise_from_wind_turbines.htm

Are we in favour of banning tractors then, or at least banning them at less than 500M from the nearest inhabited house. And if not, why not?

Jester252 · 22-03-2013 07:02PM

deremol wrote: »

People who complain about plan A and won't supply a plan B.
Because it is inaccurate information.

as is your information on there being little or no noise, what proof have you, seeing as there are no wind turbines of size to compare to..

If your not happy complain and they'll take their money elsewhere.

if only it was that easy.....

Noise is subjective. Never said that they won't produce a sound. The sound produce won't be at the level some people are trying to claim and will not affect your health.

how about we stick one in your back garden???

Nice to meet a fan.

sorry no..

Read old post. You will find accurate infomation.
How do you know that there isn't one?
Have you ever been to a wind farm?
Try not to read anymore WTS links.
Do you have a plan B. How would you deal with the current energy issue?

Chloe Pink · 22-03-2013 07:08PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Are we in favour of banning tractors then, or at least banning them at less than 500M from the nearest inhabited house. And if not, why not?

No because:
- lots of tractors don't all run almost constanty all day and all night almost every day and every night for 20 years plus
- tractors don't emit the same levels of low frequency noise
- tractors aren't hovering around many metres from the ground
- tractors don't exhibit the same noise characteristics
- tractors don't cause excess amplitude modulation
- tractors emit 98dB not more than 100dB
etc

deremol · 22-03-2013 07:24PM

Jester you are wondering how we should deal with the current energy issues....

have you not read any of the previous post???
none..i repeat.. none of the power generated by these wind farms is for the Irish market...so how are the farms that you are so in favour of helping our energy issues??

Jester252 · 22-03-2013 08:40PM

deremol wrote: »

Jester you are wondering how we should deal with the current energy issues....

have you not read any of the previous post???
none..i repeat.. none of the power generated by these wind farms is for the Irish market...so how are the farms that you are so in favour of helping our energy issues??

Yes I have. The wind farm will make use money that can be used to buy in carbon credits. This will also aid the SEAI goal of Ireland becoming a renewable energy exported between 2020-2030.

Are you going to answer my question or is it just easier to keep saying no and not help at all?

Capt'n Midnight · 22-03-2013 09:03PM

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/22/wind_farms_make_you_sick/

Professor Simon Chapman, the public health advocate behind the global push for ugly cigarette packets, has turned his attention to “wind turbine sickness”, the condition caused by infrasound vibrations from the turbines' colossal blades.

Chapman believes the condition is bunk and has co-authored a paper, titled Spatio-temporal differences in the history of health and noise complaints about Australian wind farms: evidence for the psychogenic, “communicated disease” hypothesis.

The paper's central thesis is that wind turbine sickness is not real, but that once people hear about it they start to experience its symptoms.
....

The paper therefore labels wind turbine sickness a “communicated disease” that is largely imagined, as a result of a “nocebo response,” an analog to the placebo effect.

In this late 2012 podcast Chapman offers another possible source of the sydnrome. In Europe, he says, many wind turbines are community-owned. Pride in the installation and appreciation of its benefits mean locals see it as a good thing.

Australian wind farms, by contrast, are generally privately-owned. Electricity generators look for nicely windy spots and lease space from land owners. In the podcast Chapman says that windfall (pardon the pun) is resented by neighbours who, once they hear about wind turbine sickness, sub-consciously translate their jealousy into imagined symptoms.

deremol · 22-03-2013 11:08PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Are you going to answer my question or is it just easier to keep saying no and not help at all?

Is there any point? no matter what i say you will give the opposing view...

lets see.. I'll say black.... now go on... you say white..

Chloe Pink · 22-03-2013 11:32PM

Ah yes Professor Simon Chapman; Jester252's linked to quite a few opinion pieces from Simon Chapman.

http://stopthesethings.com/2013/01/03/these-are-our-questions-for-professor-simon-chapman/#comments

"1. From your extensive CV, we notice you don’t have a medically related qualification, or specialize in hearing and hearing disorders, nor are you an acoustic engineer. Is that correct?"

Hunt around a bit and a rather poor picture of Simon Chapman emerges.

https://www.wind-watch.org/documents/chapmans-nocebo-study/
"If Chapman stuck to exploring the evidence regarding noise, health, nocebo and so on we’d simply be having a disagreement. Unfortunately he goes way beyond that. It is though he takes the wind turbine issues viscerally, attacking anyone or anything that is inconvenient. Take the very first sentence in this study: “With often florid allegations about health problems arising from wind turbine exposure now widespread in parts of rural Australia and on the internet, nocebo effects potentially confound any future investigation of turbine health impact.” Florid? My my. Scientific terminology at its finest."

https://theconversation.com/wind-turbine-syndrome-a-classic-communicated-disease-8318
Read the comments and Simon Chapman's responses for a flovour of what Chapman's about.

http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/publications/WattsLetter.pdf
Here's a letter to Chapman that Chapman put on his own website - I can't get to Chapman's response.

Putting this aside, the only person on this thread to have repeatedly gone on about Wind Turbine Syndrome / Sickness is Jester; in the main this thread has focussed on noise and has acknowledged that sleep deprivation effects people's health.

Jester252 · 22-03-2013 11:36PM

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Ah yes Professor Simon Chapman; Jester252's linked to quite a few opinion pieces from Simon Chapman.

http://stopthesethings.com/2013/01/03/these-are-our-questions-for-professor-simon-chapman/#comments

"1. From your extensive CV, we notice you don’t have a medically related qualification, or specialize in hearing and hearing disorders, nor are you an acoustic engineer. Is that correct?"

Hunt around a bit and a rather poor picture of Simon Chapman emerges.

Putting this aside, the only person on this thread to have repeatedly gone on about Wind Turbine Syndrome / Sickness is Jester; in the main his thread has focussed on noise and has acknowledged that sleep deprivation effects peopple's health.

What a unbised link you have posted.
You're the one that link to the WTS site no me. Also as I have already pointed out to you before you did bring up health effect.

Jester252 · 22-03-2013 11:38PM

deremol wrote: »

Is there any point? no matter what i say you will give the opposing view...

lets see.. I'll say black.... now go on... you say white..

You're not going to answer it because it hard. Tell the truth.

Mountainsandh · 23-03-2013 01:40AM

Jester this attitude is terrible imo.
You seem to imply that really, there are no other options than wind, and moreover, in this particular case, that there are no other options than selling windpower in Ireland.

I haven't a clue about what's possible and viable, I'm no engineer or renewable energy specialist, but one thing I know, is that with some vision people can always come up with alternative plans. There is no lack of imagination in Ireland, and money is going to be spent on this by the Irish either way, so why not try new ideas.

It seems to be a case again of some people pushing to have Ireland settling for the easiest, making a few bobs fast option. Sell the forests, sell the wind, the bogs, sell it all.

To me it just looks like another streak of poorly made decisions, that will probably shock and cause regret for the next generations.

I really hope the question you are asking is being given grave consideration by the specialists, and hopefully alternatives will be found.

That you Jester, seem to think there are no other options, and that we the readers/participants, may not come up with ideas, does not mean that there are no alternatives.

edit : found a nice, interesting pdf on biomass. http://www.seai.ie/Archive1/Files_Misc/REIOBiomassFactsheet.pdf On page 2 there is a diagram showing the potential for employment for wind compared to different biomass perspectives.

Jester252 · 23-03-2013 02:28AM

Wind is Ireland strenght. Why not play to it? Other countrys are doing this. Until wave energy become main stream the standard wind turbine is the best choice. Every form of energy has it issues like land area required for biomass and the knock on effects for this. The NIMBY crowd on this thread do what they alway do. Use pusdo-science reports, that fail under a simple stress test, to complain and offer no other options. I never said that there was no other options. I asked them to supply the other options. They refused to as they couldn't complain about them.

Mountainsandh · 23-03-2013 02:58AM

Jester252 wrote: »

Wind is Ireland strenght. Why not play to it? Other countrys are doing this. Until wave energy become main stream the standard wind turbine is the best choice. Every form of energy has it issues like land area required for biomass and the knock on effects for this..

"Other countries are doing this".

That's the problem imo.
Ireland does not need to follow the example of others in all situations. Others may be making mistakes that we can avoid.

Jester I am French, and if you look at the start of this thread, I have made my point earlier : wind exploitation in France has not performed as it should, and it's now like a bottomless pit, whereby to justify the introduction and promotion of wind, France has to keep increasing the number of turbines. It's not a case of "so many turbines will do". They just have to keep adding to that. So it's not confined areas we're talking about anymore, it's every area that is not built up that is being considered for wind now, in France.
People I talk to in France (every year, as I go back often) bitterly snigger at the wind project. It's like a bitter joke now, ah sure, they'll be putting up another ten there, and another 5 here.

How do we know that wind is the best, unless other options are seriously considered, not quickly dismissed because "it'll take too long", "there's no money in it (right now)", "it won't work", "it's not easy to set it up".

Again I'm no expert, but I'm sure the EU does have subsidies to support new initiatives in renewable energy, that could become pilot schemes for other countries to observe and implement if they are successful.

So yeah, quick buck, quick CO2 reduction tickets, landowners happy, sure, let's do it, bogs are worth nothing anyway.

I can totally see the reasoning, and I still think it is a mistake, that will be regretted and frowned at in years to come, and I still think these scratched bogs are worth something, and can possibly be saved, or used for different purposes.

Jester252 · 23-03-2013 10:43AM

So Ireland should not use it strenght as one of the windiest country in the world? Why? Should Ireland have to import its energy? Why can't Ireland make money from clean energy that it has in spades? Are you going to put forward these other options?

Chloe Pink · 23-03-2013 05:59PM

Jester252 wrote: »

So Ireland should not use it strenght as one of the windiest country in the world? Why? Should Ireland have to import its energy? Why can't Ireland make money from clean energy that it has in spades? Are you going to put forward these other options?

If this project was to happen, it wouldn't supply any electricity to the Irish grid, so it wouldn't make any difference to whether Ireland imports energy or not.
Yeah sure Ireland can make money out of wind if it doesn't mind been treated like an offshore dumping ground for the UKs wind turbines, but how much will it make and who will make it and at what cost.
Other options for what - trashing Ireland.

Mountainsandh · 23-03-2013 07:36PM

Jester what's the good in us coming up with ideas that you will have a great time ridiculing or shooting down in flames ? We, or I, at least, are not renewables specialists (as I have clearly stated in my previous post). We may have great ideas that are impossible or unviable, and we might have great ideas that could work, we don't know, and unless you are one of the team I seriously hope is employed by the government to look into this, then your refuting or supporting others' ideas is not going to make a blind bit of a difference.

I mentioned earlier that Canadians are using their old bogs for growing moss, in containers if needed, I think some actually grows on the bog soil itself too, and of course, cue incredulous and sarcastic comment from someone else on here as a retort.

I can do the incredulous and sarcastic too at times, but I think when it's novel ideas that are needed, then comments like that are pointless.

Yahoo news had an article recently about how the Indians have an ongoing project to cover all their irrigation canals with solar panels, which could save water as well as produce energy, great isn't it ? worth trying ! They've already started.

There's an ongoing pilot project in Qatar, where they have built a solar powered sort of greenhouse farm, in which cucumbers are grown... in the middle of the desert ! Turning deserts into greenhouses via solar power, genius.

Did you see this big solar panels field somewhere in America, I think it was the first, largest, solar panel field to be erected. The solar panels move with the sun to catch every possible sunray, and I think they're also built so that they store energy to release at night, so they're working 24hours a day.

Solar probably not the greatest for Ireland, biomass though seems a good way to go. And biomass doesn't have to be forestry, so yeah, hoping they have a team of people with thinking caps on.

Look at the beautiful job they have made of a large mosquito ridden good for nothing marsh in France in the 60s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Grimaud
it's now called the little Venice, and pumps a lot of money into the local economy (trust me I know, I went and pumped in a bit a fair bit of cash into it myself last summer

).

Settling to give away use of some Irish land, any Irish land, to power UK homes, imo is a bad mistake, and a waste of good brain power.
Plenty of young engineers with the brain power, tap into them.

Duggys Housemate · 23-03-2013 08:12PM

The other ideas may, or may not , be viable. Wind power is. And as for the anti-exporting malarkey - trade in power is common cross borders.

Jester252 · 24-03-2013 02:26AM

They are all theory. Also note the conditions.Just because something happen in the middle east doesn't mean it will work here. Why can Ireland make money? Is it due to the fact that its Britten? Are you pissed that esb crews went up north to help fix the grid?
Wind energy is an industry. The closest renewable to that level is solar and that still needs research.
I fail to see your issues? Why wind energy bad but not others?

Markcheese · 24-03-2013 10:33AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

"Other countries are doing this".

That's the problem imo.
Ireland does not need to follow the example of others in all situations. Others may be making mistakes that we can avoid.

Jester I am French, and if you look at the start of this thread, I have made my point earlier : wind exploitation in France has not performed as it should, and it's now like a bottomless pit, whereby to justify the introduction and promotion of wind, France has to keep increasing the number of turbines. It's not a case of "so many turbines will do". They just have to keep adding to that. So it's not confined areas we're talking about anymore, it's every area that is not built up that is being considered for wind now, in France.
People I talk to in France (every year, as I go back often) bitterly snigger at the wind project. It's like a bitter joke now, ah sure, they'll be putting up another ten there, and another 5 here.

How do we know that wind is the best, unless other options are seriously considered, not quickly dismissed because "it'll take too long", "there's no money in it (right now)", "it won't work", "it's not easy to set it up".

Again I'm no expert, but I'm sure the EU does have subsidies to support new initiatives in renewable energy, that could become pilot schemes for other countries to observe and implement if they are successful.

So yeah, quick buck, quick CO2 reduction tickets, landowners happy, sure, let's do it, bogs are worth nothing anyway.

I can totally see the reasoning, and I still think it is a mistake, that will be regretted and frowned at in years to come, and I still think these scratched bogs are worth something, and can possibly be saved, or used for different purposes.

A couple of sq meters of concrete footprint per sqkm of bog will not stop the bog being used for other purposes, if it can be used for biomass growing, harvesting and processing then that'd be a whole lot of jobs ....
If it turns out that wind power is a joke then overseas money will have paid to put them up, overseas money will have subsidised running them ,and an Irish scrap dealer will make money taking them down in 15 /20 years time , that's 15/ 20 years of putting money into local economy ...
That's not to comment on fear of noise pollution ....

Markcheese · 24-03-2013 08:14PM

Ok , I was standing at the side of the road aprox 100 meters from he base of turbine,surprised at how fast the blade is spinning ( no wind down here) , there's a steady swish, not loud or obtrusive, couldn't hear it in the van.....
Tried a couple of 100 meters further down , couldn't hear them..... Road noise in the distance blocking the sound I suppose....
I know the ones near me are relatively small, not sure what the correlation between size and noise in , does a higher mast mean the blade is further from ground.... I suppose blade speed is going to effect noise.. Longer the blade, higher the blade tip speed ?? Anyhow I still reckon you should go sit by a turbine and hear the sound and it's intensity

Capt'n Midnight · 24-03-2013 08:44PM

Markcheese wrote: »

Ok , I was standing at the side of the road aprox 100 meters from he base of turbine

don't forget these turbines will be on the order of 180m tall with 120m diameter blades

so even standing directly underneath you'll be 50m-60m away from the tips of the blades :pac:

and yes peoples have done reserach on fluttery / rubbery things on the blade edges/tips to reduce noise

Or you could just use 20MW turbines, rotor frequency would be halved, and you'd only need 1/5th the number of them
153m hub with 123m blades (vs. 90m hub and 61.6m blades) - both hubs would be higher due to plinths etc.

Mountainsandh · 25-03-2013 12:59AM

I stood pretty much under a wind turbine in co Wexford, couldn't tell you the exact spot for that particular one, but it's small roads going from Rosslare main road to Kilmore Quay, probably around Tacumshin Lake ? A good few turbines in that spot.
Just stopped on the side of the road, there's a gate, and one turbine is probably 5/10 metres away. Every time a pale came down it was like a heavy truck passing beside me, loud noise and vibrations. Pretty scary.

My problem with wind is that it's not inconspicuous.

Solar panels on the ground are less noticeable in the landscape, imo. Growing moss on the bog would be less noticeable. There are probably a great number of options which would be less noticeable, problem is the lack of uptake, because they won't make money fast.

Landscape is important, that's the bottom line for me, and no one can convince me otherwise, whether it's the Dingle peninsula we're talking about, or the Midlands' bogs.

Turbines simply have too much of an impact on the landscape.

Jester the projects mentioned in my previous post are actual happening projects, not theories, if it was that you referred to. I'll try and find you the pics again, it's just too time consuming for right now.

edit : found one
http://gigaom.com/2012/04/23/a-solar-canal-rises-in-india/ and http://www.sunedison.com/wps/wcm/connect/3d25e889-4067-47d7-a552-62ebaecadc24/Case_Study_Narmada-FINAL.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=3d25e889-4067-47d7-a552-62ebaecadc24

Mountainsandh · 25-03-2013 01:24AM

Markcheese wrote: »

A couple of sq meters of concrete footprint per sqkm of bog will not stop the bog being used for other purposes, if it can be used for biomass growing, harvesting and processing then that'd be a whole lot of jobs ....
If it turns out that wind power is a joke then overseas money will have paid to put them up, overseas money will have subsidised running them ,and an Irish scrap dealer will make money taking them down in 15 /20 years time , that's 15/ 20 years of putting money into local economy ...
That's not to comment on fear of noise pollution ....

Good idea to use them for several purposes at once allright.
But the visual impact of the turbines will still be there.

Put it this way, if the UK wanted to grow moss on the bogs, I would not have any objections.

What bugs me is that in erecting a forest of windturbines, we are impacting our Irish environment so they don't have to impact theirs. We have to sacrifice the landscape of Ireland so they don't have to sacrifice theirs.

There has been a lot of talk about noise, I don't know much about that and for me it's not the main concern.

It's very sad that my concern, the visual impact, seems to bear so little weight in the Irish psyche.

To me it's the same indifference to surroundings and visual heritage sites that has let hundreds of ugly 1970s/80s bungalows be built instead of restoring old ones, and that has let countless old mills and other fine buildings be reduced to rubble instead of using them as a visual asset in towns and villages in the country.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-03-2013 02:36AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Turbines simply have too much of an impact on the landscape.

Thanks to the high cost of transport most people won't see large turbines on a weekly basis.

The real impact are climate change and loss of habitat.

The harvesting rights for state forests are being sold off, if this is being done early then it will have a massive impact on the landscape in upland areas.

Mountainsandh · 25-03-2013 11:05AM

CM you should really visit France some time soon.

Wind turbines are seen anywhere and everywhere, including from towns.
And of course, not everyone lives in a town.

How can you decide what the "real impact" is ?

Such comment only illustrates my point : that's the point of view in Ireland at this moment in time. Visual impact is not really important.

What I'm saying is that I think that yes, it is actually.

About the forests, yes, and how scary that Ireland should even consider that.

I see it a bit as someone selling the use of their hair for money : my body is mine, but if you pay the right price, you can style and cut my hair as you please, sell the hair, whatever. But of course I'll still be me.

Chloe Pink · 26-03-2013 11:34AM

Article in Irish Examiner:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/families-bid-to-sue-wind-farm-operator-225867.html

Summary:
'A group of families in a north Cork village are suing a wind farm operator in a landmark case; the seven families from Banteer claim they have been severely impacted, particularly through noise pollution, since the turbines began operating in Nov 2011.'

'The case in the UK of (Jane & Julian Davis) was settled out of court and included a confidentiality clause.'

'A couple living near Roscommon town were forced to leave their home because of the effect a nearby turbine was having on their health.'

"Last year, the Noise and Health journal published results from a US survey which compared sleeping patterns between a group living within a mile of a wind farm, and another beyond that distance.

The study suggested that the former group’s sleeping was directly impacted by the operation of the turbines. It is believed to be the first study to show a relationship between the wind farms and what the journal calls the “important clinical indicators of health, including sleep quality, daytime sleepiness, and mental health”.

"So far, no legislation has been passed in relation to wind turbines [in Ireland]."

"The guidelines are being reviewed by the Department of the Environment, which is expected to report in the coming months."

'Major development in the Midlands for 2,000 turbines has caused uproar in some quarters' with public meetings called across the Midlands by residents'

Chloe Pink · 26-03-2013 11:42AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Such comment only illustrates my point : that's the point of view in Ireland at this moment in time. Visual impact is not really important.

What I'm saying is that I think that yes, it is actually.

I agree Mountainsandh and certainly in the UK, visual impact is one of the main reasons that wind turbines are refused planning permission.

Another turbine collapses in Maas, between the Co Donegal villages of Glenties and Ardara.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/safety-concerns-after-wind-turbine-snaps-and-falls-during-storm-29151242.html
"An investigation is under way after a €1.5m wind turbine collapsed during a storm just yards from a popular cycling route"

AlmightyCushion · 27-03-2013 07:14AM

Chloe Pink wrote: »

"An investigation is under way after a €1.5m wind turbine collapsed during a storm just yards from a popular cycling route"

Oh the horror. Someone could have been startled or even alarmed.

Chloe Pink · 27-03-2013 09:30AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Oh the horror. Someone could have been startled or even alarmed.

Or injured

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/farmhouse-horror-as-turbine-blade-smashes-through-roof-28392589.html
“It got up momentum with the wind blowing. It went for four hours until about 4am and the three blades came off. One of the blades went through the roof of the house — it cut through it like a chainsaw.

Ireland to build 'giant' wind turbines to power UK homes

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