Ireland to build 'giant' wind turbines to power UK homes

This project will work out - for the developers - they say they'll get at least 500,000 Euros per turbine per year of electricity and I don't know if they're even including the bountiful subsidies in their calculations - that's all the developers need to know, that they'll make money and subsidies for wind guartantee this (hence the term "wind rush").
Interestingly, Pat Swords is currently challenging in High Court, Ireland's policy of supporting wind turbines.
http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2013/03/04/ireland-v-pat-swords/

New larger turbines aren't a fix for curtailment. The UK is also already curtailing wind and therefore is likely to be curtailing further if this development is allowed to go ahead.

The employment factor is over hyped, just like the number of turbines is being underplayed (described in a recent interview as a few hundred by Pat Rabbit instead of more than 2,000) - it's all part of the greenwash I'm afraid - yes they'll be construction work during the build leaving just some maintenance work thereafter. (At wind turbine public inquiries I've attended, the developers have been unable to guarantee even one job after construction on say a 10 wind turbine site.)

The Midlands actually have low winds hence the taller turbines.

Unfortunately wind turbines are unlikely to displace or replace any other electrcicty generators as we still need the other generators for the days the wind blows too much, too little or not at all; this means pipelines or oils spills or mining won't dissappear, they'll still be with us.

I am in no doubt that 2,300 massive turbines across the Midlands will detract from its natural environment visually, environmentally and ecologically.

And of course so many turbines will also impact many folks living in the Midlands.
This is a long thread which has covered these points in detail but just a few posts back from here you'll see there is reason for grave concern for people living in the Midlands.
( http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83618485&postcount=656 )

Is the 1.2 billion not what the Brittish goverment is paying us to place them here. The company will be making the money but will still have to pay landowners, workers, mantiences and all that stuff. So Ireland will be making much more than 1.2 billion.

O Riain wrote: »

No. Mainstream and element will pay landowers rent for placing the turbines on their land, they will also invest in local communities(according to them). The €1.2 billion is for energy exports and is an annual payment which works out as the low figure per kilowatt hour mentioned above. The overall figure will not be much above €1.2 billion as land payments and local payments are set to be around €50 million

Well that an issues the goverment needs to hammer out with the british. In a local level the money pumped into them will improve. Do you have a source for this figure.

O Riain wrote: »

Mainstreams Energy Bridge website

I've found the website but not the reference to offshore turbines.
Would you mind providing a link to the relevant page please.

O Riain wrote: »

Mainstreams Energy Bridge website

http://www.energybridge.ie/about-Energy-Bridge.asp
I guess this is the website you refer to but I can't see a commitment to 800MW being offshore.
I can see that the project is for 5,000MW and that some of it is proposed for offshore:
"5,000MW, equivalent to total domestic electricity consumption, will be constructed onshore and offshore by 2020."
We know that Greenwire propose 3,000MW on shore and om the above website Mainstream are proposing that "Phase 1 of this project will focus on delivering the first 1,200MW of onshore wind by 2017."
This doesn't excluse further onshore.
It is more expensive to build and maintain offshore turbines than onshore turbines so it would seem reasonable that Mainstream will aim to put as many turbines onshore as possible, the project will change as it evolves.

Regardless, 4,200MW of onshore wind turbines would normally consist of 2MW turbines as turbines of greater MW than 2 are not normally considered to be suitable for onshore generally because of noise especially low frequency noise.
To achieve 4,200MW of installed capacity would require
2,100 x 2MW turbines
or
1,400 x 3MW turbines
To install the outstanding 800MW onshore would require a further
400 x 2MW turbines
or
270 x 3MW turbines
So until the project is finalised, there is still the potential onshore for
2,500 x 2MW turbines
or
1670 x 3MW turbines
or something inbetween.
The larger the MW of the turbines, the greater the spacing required between them.

And just to confuse matters, there's a big conference on 30th April
http://www.energyireland.ie/events/energybridge2013/brochure.pdf
Here they cite
"Onshore Offaly/Tipperary 1,200MW by 2017
Onshore Midlands 1,400MW by 2018
Onshore Midlands & Offshore Irish Sea 2,400MW by 2020"
and
"The table below estimates the supply chain required for the
5,000MW Energy Bridge project – for 3,700MW onshore and
1,300MW offshore (not including high voltage, high power
connections or installation/construction)."

Oh and
"Operation & maintenance phase: 120 lifetime jobs"

I love Mainstream's "Frequently Asked Questions" section on their Energy Bridge website.

For example, under
2. What impact do wind farms have on house prices?
http://www.energybridge.ie/faqs.asp#Q107
They provide a few quotes from various reports and to their credit do supply links for the source of their material.

However although they quote from and provide a link to the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, RICs website, they miss a key report and a key landmark case; here they are:
http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/more-services/guides-advice/wind-farms/

"Our study in 2004 concluded that 60% of the survey sampled thought wind farms decrease the value of residential property where the development is within view. 67% of the sample indicated that the negative impact on property prices starts when a planning application to build a wind farm begins."

"However, a landmark case has shown evidence that the close proximity of wind farms can affect house prices. A council tax appeal ruled that Jane Davis would get a discount on her council tax because her home has lost value as a result of a wind farm. This ruling could be regarded as an official admission that wind farms have a negative effect on prices.
Valuation Tribunal Council tax appeal from Jane Davis (2008)"

Chloe Pink wrote: »

The extraordinary height of the turbines is to cater for the low winds in the Midlands.
Turbines of similar heights can have different MWs
2-3MW is not the average number of MW for onshore turbines; beyond 2MW is generally not considered suitable for onshore because of the noise especially the low frequency noise.

Re the MW size of the turbines see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82964960&postcount=349

I think we went over noise before where I provide scientific evidence that supports that the noise from a turbine has no health effect and subjective based on a person opinion while you linked to articles from Ihatewindturbines.com. 2MW are used not due to noise just due to availability. The 2MW are the hot hatchback while larger turbines require the hyper car. I don't know why they went with such a low MW turbine. Must have been the only one they could get.

Chloe Pink wrote: »

Back to Mainstreams "Frequently Asked Questions":
Here's their rather brief answer re noise:
http://www.energybridge.ie/faqs.asp#Q110

The most alarming thing is that there is no mention of limiting the noise.
Although noise limits for wind turbines are recommended in Ireland, they are not law whereas they are in many other countries in particular Denmark which has just legislated on low frequency noise from wind turbines on top of mid range limits etc

http://www.mst.dk/English/Noise/wind_turbine_noise/low_frequency_noise_from_wind_turbines/low_frequency_noise_from_wind_turbines_FAQ.htm
"The Environmental Protection Agency has revised the Statutory Order on Wind Turbines to include limit values for low frequency noise. The new limit values apply to turbines that are registered after January 1st 2012 where the new statutory order entered into force."

http://asadl.org/jasa/resource/1/jasman/v129/i6/p3727_s1?isAuthorized=no
"The relative amount of low-frequency noise is higher for large turbines (2.3–3.6 MW) than for small turbines (≤ 2 MW), and the difference is statistically significant."
"It is thus beyond any doubt that the low-frequency part of the spectrum plays an important role in the noise at the neighbors."


More from the Danish Environmental Protection Agency website
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.mst.dk/English/Noise/wind_turbine_noise/noise_from_wind_turbines/noise_from_wind_turbines.htm[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"Noise from a modern wind turbine is commensurate with that of a tractor. A typical 1980s turbine generating 100 kW and a 1990s turbine generating 500 kW both emit approx. 100 dB. This is only slightly less than a typical modern turbine generating 2-3 MW."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So a modern turbine generating 2-3MW emits more than 100dB[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Here's a decibel sound ruler[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Sounds/Decibles.htm[/FONT]
100dB - Train / garbage truck
103dB - Jet flyover at 100 feet


So for 10 turbines, it's OK in Ireland to have the constant sound of 10 trains all day and all night just 500 meters from someones home


Not suprisingly Mainstream haven't quite put it like this and neither have they included the McGlinchey video on their website

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmRaORKHY_o

Yet again you fail to take into account distance. A major factor with sound. I post multi report here that conclude that sound from a turbine from a turbine at 500m is approx 40 db. You wouldn't know this as you just ignored them because it didn't fit in with your scaremongering.

The report you linked never took in distance.
You did mention db try read before you post.
Distance is a MAJOR (you know that word) factor in sound.
FYI you forgot to list opinion on that list of factors. That a fact.
What I don't understand is why do you do nothing on this website than post anti-wind scaremongering bs.

Farm equipment is very quite at that distance.
Are you ever going to answer my question?

Chloe Pink wrote: »

My apologies, I should have written

"My comparison did not mention decibels because this means nothing to most of us.
What it did do was provide a comparison with something people could relate to; anyone living in a rural environment knows what a tractor or harvester (the nearest thing to a train) sounds like a couple of fields away (about 500 metres away)."

instead of

"My post did not mention decibels because this means nothing to most of us.
What it did do was provide a comparison with something people could relate to; anyone living in a rural environment knows what a tractor or harvester (the nearest thing to a train) sounds like a couple of fields away (about 500 metres away)."

That still brings up db. I do believe I already had a comparison that you straight up ignored again. I suggest you do some research and look more towards the stream, quite office side than trains and trucks. If you what to learn more read my posts because I have pointed this fact out to you a number of times already.

Chloe Pink wrote: »

"So for 10 turbines, it's OK in Ireland to have the constant sound of 10 trains all day and all night just 500 meters from someones home"

"Anyone living in a rural environment knows what a tractor or harvester (the nearest thing to a train) sounds like a couple of fields away (about 500 metres away)."

No, "db" or "decibels" don't appear in either of the above statements.

Nor here:

"What they think of the constant sound of 10 tractors or harvesters going all day and all night just 500 meters or so from their house, is up to them."

Ah yes the convenient quote not a new trick to you or the anti-wind scaremongers. Quote your whole post

deremol wrote: »

Jester.... can I ask you a question... actually 2 questions....

whats your problem??? why do you keep putting down everything that Chloe Pink says???

actually more than 2 questions..

do you work for Mainstream?? are you an investor?? are you set to gain from the windfarms??

I live in an area that the new wind turbines are going to be supposedly located, I've seen the maps, there are plans to put 23 of them ranging from about 500 metres to about 2.5 km from my back door..

Do you really think these things won't make noise.. are you for f**king real??

Jester you are a gob****e of the highest order!!

A wee bit personal , doesn't mean yr right or wrong but ,
Course they'll make noise , so does everything else including trees , roads , milking parlours, neighbouring kids ect.
Never found the noise obtrusive from the few I've been up to,(nearest to me is aprox 1 km ) in fact I've never heard them at all,except in the field where turbines are, must have some bloody quiet tractors in Denmark... ( but an idling tractor doesn't really make much noise) ,
Easiest way to find out what the noise level would be to take a road trip on a fine breezy day, bring a travel seat ,a book a flask and an open mind. Set up about 500 meters from turbine and start reading. if after 10/20mins you're still bothered go home and start fighting , if not save yourself a lot of grief and stress ....
Don't know much about light flicker, would it be much different to a tree's branches ?

deremol wrote: »

Jester.... can I ask you a question... actually 2 questions....

whats your problem??? why do you keep putting down everything that Chloe Pink says???

People who complain about plan A and won't supply a plan B.
Because it is inaccurate information.

actually more than 2 questions..

do you work for Mainstream?? are you an investor?? are you set to gain from the windfarms??

That three but whatever.
No.
I wish. Wind farms are a pretty safe investment
Personally not to sure. Overall yes.

I live in an area that the new wind turbines are going to be supposedly located, I've seen the maps, there are plans to put 23 of them ranging from about 500 metres to about 2.5 km from my back door..

Go to a wind farm and listen to the turbines. If your not happy complain and they'll take their money elsewhere.

Do you really think these things won't make noise.. are you for f**king real??

Noise is subjective. Never said that they won't produce a sound. The sound produce won't be at the level some people are trying to claim and will not affect your health.

Jester you are a gob****e of the highest order!!

[/Quote]

Nice to meet a fan.
Do you have anything to add or are you just going to call people names?