Bodybuilding Debate, Broscience Vs Hard Science

Blatter · 25-03-2013 02:20AM #1

Found this a good watch and thought others might enjoy it. It really does show up the old fashioned broscience for what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJk1DxJXBjk

AMT · 25-03-2013 12:30PM

As I say to the scrawny dudes when they butt in univited to whatever me and my mates are talking about on the gym floor...

You go your way kid and I'll go mine and we'll see who ends up bigger, more muscled and stronger.

POSSY · 25-03-2013 01:14PM

Without knowing too much about him, and after only watching 30/40 mins, I get the distinct feeling that Ian is full of waffle (not saying he is wrong) just that he is waffling. From a scientific stance, he provides no evidence for his claims that research refutes this/that, without reference.

I get the distinct feeling that he has read some research, while not actually taking a critical eye on the methodology/testing/inference approaches. Moreover, is the control group used in the research he has read appropriate for a body building discussion.

To be brief, (pressed for time), I get the distinct feeling he's read more than he understands, and feels he is more knowledgable than he is.

To be crude, he claims he's here to refute all the "so called gurus", while he doesn't appear to actually have a sport/nutrition science background (from what I can gather he has a Philosophy background not a scientific one). Just my 0.02e.

herbytosh · 25-03-2013 01:15PM

POSSY wrote: »

Without knowing too much about him, and after only watching 30/40 mins, I get the distinct feeling that Ian is full of waffle (not saying he is wrong) just that he is waffling. From a scientific stance, he provides no evidence for his claims that research refutes this/that, without reference.

I get the distinct feeling that he has read some research, while not actually taking a critical eye on the methodology/testing/inference approaches. Moreover, is the control group used in the research he has read appropriate for a body building discussion.

To be brief, (pressed for time), I get the distinct feeling he's read more than he understands, and feels he is more knowledgable than he is.

To be crude, he claims he's here to refute all the "so called gurus", while he doesn't appear to actually have a sport/nutrition science background (from what I can gather he has a Philosophy background not a scientific one). Just my 0.02e.

can't see the link but saw you mentioned the name Ian??

Dont tell me its Ian Mccarthy

drdeadlift · 25-03-2013 01:23PM

POSSY wrote: »

Without knowing too much about him, and after only watching 30/40 mins, I get the distinct feeling that Ian is full of waffle (not saying he is wrong) just that he is waffling. From a scientific stance, he provides no evidence for his claims that research refutes this/that, without reference.

I get the distinct feeling that he has read some research, while not actually taking a critical eye on the methodology/testing/inference approaches. Moreover, is the control group used in the research he has read appropriate for a body building discussion.

To be brief, (pressed for time), I get the distinct feeling he's read more than he understands, and feels he is more knowledgable than he is.

To be crude, he claims he's here to refute all the "so called gurus", while he doesn't appear to actually have a sport/nutrition science background (from what I can gather he has a Philosophy background not a scientific one). Just my 0.02e.

I get the Distinct feeling much

POSSY · 25-03-2013 01:40PM

herbytosh wrote: »

can't see the link but saw you mentioned the name Ian??

Dont tell me its Ian Mccarthy

Yup, it's Ian Mc Carthy

googled eyes · 25-03-2013 01:43PM

Your man Ian is quite annoying. Hes like the kid from school who "thinks" he knows it all.

RidleyRider · 25-03-2013 01:56PM

I so wanna post a link to brosciencelife YouTube channel but im on my phone

POSSY · 25-03-2013 02:00PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXO2azb3_PE

JJayoo · 25-03-2013 02:33PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XrgkvzAorM

"Muscle Grinding Cash Badger"

harvester of sorrow · 25-03-2013 02:35PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah man thats too funny:D!

herbytosh · 25-03-2013 02:35PM

POSSY wrote: »

Yup, it's Ian Mc Carthy

should have known...

if science = more muscle gains why does it look like a sparrows kneecap has more muscle mass than Mr.Mc Carthy

chaps a goon

hes blocked me from youtube aswell..give him a piece of your mind

Doug Cartel · 25-03-2013 02:49PM

herbytosh wrote: »

if science = more muscle gains why does it look like a sparrows kneecap has more muscle mass than Mr.Mc Carthy

Is it because knowing how to do something and actually doing it are not the same thing?

Hypothetically he could be the most unfit person in the world and it wouldn't change the validity of what he says. (Though I've never heard of the guy, so I have no idea how valid any of the stuff he says is.)

jive · 25-03-2013 03:05PM

Jeesh people involved in health/fitness/bodybuilding get so hung up on this stuff. You can be efficient without having absolutely everything down to a tee and backed up by irrefutable scientific research.

I'm all for 'clever' and informed training but I reckon if people hung up on 'broscience' stopped doing so much research and instead just trained hard then they'd look a lot better.

herbytosh · 25-03-2013 03:06PM

jive wrote: »

Jeesh people involved in health/fitness/bodybuilding get so hung up on this stuff. You can be efficient without having absolutely everything down to a tee and backed up by irrefutable scientific research.

I'm all for 'clever' and informed training but I reckon if people hung up on 'broscience' stopped doing so much research and instead just trained hard then they'd look a lot better.

yeah but naturals need all the help they can get...

googled eyes · 25-03-2013 03:12PM

That broscience life is good. Trying not to laugh with a sleeping baby is bad. I lost it to the there will be grunts episode

Blatter · 25-03-2013 03:15PM

POSSY wrote: »

Without knowing too much about him, and after only watching 30/40 mins, I get the distinct feeling that Ian is full of waffle (not saying he is wrong) just that he is waffling. From a scientific stance, he provides no evidence for his claims that research refutes this/that, without reference.

I get the distinct feeling that he has read some research, while not actually taking a critical eye on the methodology/testing/inference approaches. Moreover, is the control group used in the research he has read appropriate for a body building discussion.

To be brief, (pressed for time), I get the distinct feeling he's read more than he understands, and feels he is more knowledgable than he is.

To be crude, he claims he's here to refute all the "so called gurus", while he doesn't appear to actually have a sport/nutrition science background (from what I can gather he has a Philosophy background not a scientific one). Just my 0.02e.

I've seen a fair few of his videos, and found him very good. He goes into more detail about studies and experiments when talking about a specific subject. Very logical person.

googled eyes wrote: »

Your man Ian is quite annoying. Hes like the kid from school who "thinks" he knows it all.

Maybe rather than come out with these blanket statements about him, you'd have more credence if you coherently refuted something(s) he's said.

I can see how people don't like his personality, but that's nothing really got to do with the content of what he says.

herbytosh wrote: »

should have known...

if science = more muscle gains why does it look like a sparrows kneecap has more muscle mass than Mr.Mc Carthy

chaps a goon

hes blocked me from youtube aswell..give him a piece of your mind

lol, maybe he blocked you because he doesn't want to entertain keyboard warriors who have no interest (or are not able to) have a logical debate with him and just throw around personal insults.

herbytosh · 25-03-2013 03:19PM

Blatter wrote: »

I've seen a fair few of his videos, and found him very good. He goes into more detail about studies and experiments when talking about a specific subject. Very logical person.

Maybe rather than come out with these blanket statements about him, you'd have more credence if you coherently refuted something(s) he's said.

I can see how people don't like his personality, but that's nothing really got to do with the content of what he says.

lol, maybe he blocked you because he doesn't want to entertain keyboard warriors who have no interest (or are not able to) have a logical debate with him and just throw around personal insults.

have no interest??lol

im 6'1 215lbs 9%bf

I think I have interest in this subject

googled eyes · 25-03-2013 03:24PM

Blatter wrote: »

Maybe rather than come out with these blanket statements about him, you'd have more credence if you coherently refuted something(s) he's said.

I can see how people don't like his personality, but that's nothing really got to do with the content of what he says.

I'm not saying what he says is wrong.

I just ment that he seems like a certain lad I went to school with, who if you were in a discussion with him, he had no interest really in what you had to say. In his mind what you say has no credence. The other guy (I cant remember his name) was a lot more accepting of his arguement.

Even during the video Ian was surprised by how little they had argued and how then even had similar views on issues. He obviously was just thinking I'm going into a discussion with a broscience meathead.

He went into the discussion, with a terrible attitude and this is why I said what I said.

Blatter · 25-03-2013 04:16PM

herbytosh wrote: »

have no interest??lol

im 6'1 215lbs 9%bf

I think I have interest in this subject

So can you tell me what exactly do you disagree with what McCarthy says then?

Do you think meal frequency has an effect on metabolism?

Do you think carbs are bad for you at night?

What exactly do you have a problem with what he refutes?

googled eyes wrote: »

I'm not saying what he says is wrong.

I just ment that he seems like a certain lad I went to school with, who if you were in a discussion with him, he had no interest really in what you had to say. In his mind what you say has no credence. The other guy (I cant remember his name) was a lot more accepting of his arguement.

Even during the video Ian was surprised by how little they had argued and how then even had similar views on issues. He obviously was just thinking I'm going into a discussion with a broscience meathead.

He went into the discussion, with a terrible attitude and this is why I said what I said.

OK fair enough, I didn't really get that sort of vibe from him though.

googled eyes · 25-03-2013 04:23PM

Blatter wrote: »

OK fair enough, I didn't really get that sort of vibe from him though.

Ive actually been researching him more since this thread opened.

I have to say I dont like the guy at all.

Im all for hard science and i think it greatly helps sports but im not a fan of Ian.

Not a person · 25-03-2013 04:56PM

herbytosh wrote: »

have no interest??lol

im 6'1 215lbs 9%bf

I think I have interest in this subject

So you`ve a BMI of about 28?? Overweight, close to obese!?

Ah no, with 9% Body fat, you must have alot of muscle mass. Do you even lift?

JJayoo · 25-03-2013 06:01PM

Not a person wrote: »

So you`ve a BMI of about 28?? Overweight, close to obese!?

Ah no, with 9% Body fat, you must have alot of muscle mass. Do you even lift?

Herbytosh is a genetic beast lobster, don't angry him.

LuckyLloyd · 25-03-2013 06:58PM

Not sure anything is 'shown up' to any great extent. McCarthy is extremely articulate but he was faced with a very reasonable foil.

DL Saint · 25-03-2013 08:56PM

After watching the above video and then browsing through a number of Youtube videos, I have to agree that I do not like Ian McCarthy. He comes across as such a know it all and very arrogant as he sees himself as a higher intellectual than all other bodybuilders.

Dave has prepped many people for bodybuilding contests and has years of experience as they say the proof is in the (protein) pudding. Ian on the other hand seems to read a lot of studies, but has never gotten someone contest ready, or even close to it. He mentions 3DMJ as people who have got people ready while using his approach, but I would be very skeptical if these guys are actually dieting on iifym and are not using some kind of assistance. Also we never hear of the people who failed to get show ready using this approach, but since getting contest ready is different for everybody, I am sure that there are a fair amount of their clients that the iifym approach has not worked for.

Also while browsing Youtube I found comments from Ian about Dave, criticizing his entire bodybuilding career and naming more successful bodybuilders who he believes have used the iifym approach to win their titles :P

Gummy Panda · 25-03-2013 09:03PM

My view is studies are great but they're not a one size fits all as a lot are on untrained/assisted people.

Even Ian's favourite "gurus" like Lyle McDonald say bodybuilders have been doing things before the science proved it. Though he is responding to an American audience and there is a lot of broscience on bb.com

JJayoo · 25-03-2013 09:08PM

Robin Williams has something to say to Ian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEIQSbul9Os

willmunny1990 · 25-03-2013 09:35PM

Dave Pulcinella once said there are only 6 foods that work in order to create the leanest body possible...

This is nothing short of retarded, why anyone would limit themselves to such a ****ty bland diet is beyond me, this sort of advice deserves to be ridiculed. The Youtube fitness community is full of people who spout this kind of non sense. Ian at least offers a different approach with IIFYM while still always stressing how important it is to not just stuff your face with fast food, cake etc..

Dislike him all you want but the fact of the matter is he offers some of the best, most truthful advice.

He also collaborates with Alan Aragon and Eric Helmes. He also uses some of Lyle's material.

I also understand Matt Ogus and 3DMJ have been very successful with the IIFYM approach.

JJayoo · 25-03-2013 09:42PM

This is nothing short of retarded, why anyone would limit themselves to such a ****ty bland diet is beyond me

Who cares if it's bland, if it works it works. If a bodybuilder is worried about his food being too bland then he should just give up.

willmunny1990 · 25-03-2013 09:57PM

JJayoo wrote: »

Who cares if it's bland, if it works it works. If a bodybuilder is worried about his food being too bland then he should just give up.

But it doesn't need to be bland! Eating stuff that tastes like cardboard all day may work but it's not in any way necessary and shouldn't be pushed as such.

RidleyRider · 25-03-2013 10:20PM

Don't know how much relevance this is but I think a certain amount of hard science and broscience work.

Bodybuilding Debate, Broscience Vs Hard Science

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