Referendum for Irish Unity 2022

CelticDragon7 · 20-03-2013 02:33PM #1

Whether you would vote Yes or No in any such referendum, would you support that there should be a referendum on the issue of Irish unity some time in 2022?

(2022 would be 100 years on from the effective ratification of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1922 and so really the defining moment for permanent partition and so surely the people voting 100 years later could settle the issue for the foreseeable future one way or the other).

So basically a Yes or No answer but of course feel free to air your views and stimulate debate!

Thanks!

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 02:39PM

I'd vote yes. There is no legitimacy of British rule in Ireland. Gerrymandered statelets run for a settler minority went out with the ark. It's time the wrongs of a century past were put right. The Irish of Ulster were abandoned to a terrible fate and paid the price for the rest of the nation's freedom.
Unifying Ireland wouldn't be a simple case of erasing the border. It would require restructuring everything about politics and administration in Ireland. We'd have to move to a less centralised, more federal system, with regional assemblies taking some powers from the Dail and largely replacing the parish pump council system. We'd have to ensure and enshrine respect for all citizens, including those who will for many years to come prefer to consider themselves British.
But yes, I'd vote yes everytime.

kidneyfan · 20-03-2013 02:46PM

Yes if the capital is moved to Ulster no if not.

hatrickpatrick · 20-03-2013 02:53PM

I don't think there's any point in having one until opinion polls show that a majority in the North would vote yes. Otherwise what's the point?
And further to this, I would imagine that not very many people in the North would vote yes until Ireland is out of the bailout and no longer the troika's b!tch. Again, would YOU vote to become part of a bailout country if yours still had its economic independence?

I honestly don't think these dates should be chosen based on symbolic factors like "100 years since x or y", the timing needs to be based on national mood both sides of the border or it would simply fail.

kidneyfan · 20-03-2013 03:08PM

If the new republic was going to have the capital in Ulster maybe more people from the north would be interested in the idea.

If people in the south want a United Ireland that much why does no one ever mention a UI with super devolution from the UK?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think there's any point in having one until opinion polls show that a majority in the North would vote yes. Otherwise what's the point?
And further to this, I would imagine that not very many people in the North would vote yes until Ireland is out of the bailout and no longer the troika's b!tch. Again, would YOU vote to become part of a bailout country if yours still had its economic independence?

I honestly don't think these dates should be chosen based on symbolic factors like "100 years since x or y", the timing needs to be based on national mood both sides of the border or it would simply fail.

VinLieger · 20-03-2013 03:10PM

No there shouldnt be one until both countries are in a somewhat stable condition economically(down here and up there) and socially(up there). Simply having a vote would throw the north into chaos again, whatever about a positive or negative result. Also neither country is ready for reunification. NI cannot operate without a constant heavy pumping of cash from London and Ireland cant afford to do hold it up for the forseeable future until both countries sort out a stable economy for themselves

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 03:34PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

Yes if the capital is moved to Ulster no if not.

Where a capital is located is sort of meaningless. Canberra, Ottawa, Bonn etc didn't change the fact that Sydney, Melbourne, Vancouver, Toronto, Frankfurt, Hamburg etc were all more important cities.
All it means is an admin centre. But this is the sort of thing I'd see as up for debate in any meaningful consideration of a United Ireland. A disunited Ireland hasn't served anyone well. A badly thought-out United Ireland wouldn't be much of an improvement. What's needed is a well-considered Unification that served all the people of the island. Part of that would be, I think, greater regional autonomy within the island and a decrease in the role of centralised government, no matter where the nominal capital was located.
(Personally, I'm of the view the capital should be Tara, as it was historically.)

kidneyfan · 20-03-2013 03:44PM

Tara was never capital of Ireland. It was capital of a sort of super Ulster that was about 2/3 of Ireland.
Where the capital is does matter. Ulster's primacy must be recognised.

A disunited Ireland has been fine for 90% of people on the island of Ireland. What I would like is to have Northern Ireland cut up like Baarle. The Bogside wants to be in the Republic and the Diamond in the United Kingdom No Problem! The Short Strand wants to be in the Republic? No Problem.

The whole Ulster referendum idea is very old fashioned.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Where a capital is located is sort of meaningless. Canberra, Ottawa, Bonn etc didn't change the fact that Sydney, Melbourne, Vancouver, Toronto, Frankfurt, Hamburg etc were all more important cities.
All it means is an admin centre. But this is the sort of thing I'd see as up for debate in any meaningful consideration of a United Ireland. A disunited Ireland hasn't served anyone well. A badly thought-out United Ireland wouldn't be much of an improvement. What's needed is a well-considered Unification that served all the people of the island. Part of that would be, I think, greater regional autonomy within the island and a decrease in the role of centralised government, no matter where the nominal capital was located.
(Personally, I'm of the view the capital should be Tara, as it was historically.)

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 03:45PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

Tara was never capital of Ireland. It was capital of a sort of super Ulster that was about 2/3 of Ireland.
Where the capital is does matter. Ulster's primacy must be recognised.

Ok, this reads like trolling. I'll leave you to it.

seamus · 20-03-2013 03:46PM

I've no problem with the question being asked, but I would avoid picking any year of significance such as a 100 year anniversary. So 2016 and 2022 are out.

I would also avoid asking the question "just because" and instead pick a time when both countries are stable and peaceful. If the timing is wrong, simply asking the question could incite sectarian violence, particularly up North.

kidneyfan · 20-03-2013 03:49PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Ok, this reads like trolling. I'll leave you to it.

Ulster won't come into a United Ireland on the same basis as the other provinces. The idea that Ulster and Munster are in some way equal is absurd. If anything Ulster is a separate national identity.

moon_man · 20-03-2013 03:53PM

2022 seems a little soon

id vote yes but id be willing to compromise with unionists on a few issues as their are bound to be several

only speculating but i think the following might be one , we rejoin the commonwealth , a relativley small price to pay IMO
, as far as i know you do not have to have the queen as head of state to be a member , i dont think the queen is head of state in pakistan for instance or south africa

hyperborean · 20-03-2013 03:54PM

Unity under who? Whats the point of such a thing?

What I find really funny is that a lot of people, mainly republicans are going to spend the best years of their lives lobbying for this and whether it happens or not they will eventually die knowing they wasted their lives, , ,

There is no afterlife, its your one shot. Dont waste it on Geography

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 03:55PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

Ulster won't come into a United Ireland on the same basis as the other provinces. The idea that Ulster and Munster are in some way equal is absurd. If anything Ulster is a separate national identity.

As the Cliftonville fans so love to sing, "We're not Brazil, we're not a country!"
Don't confuse provincial identity for nationhood. I've already outlined that unification requires new thinking on all the power relationships within Ireland. I'd certainly foresee a regional assembly, not dissimilar to the existing Stormont, in Belfast as part of that.
But another important part is the restructuring of power across the island. Regional assemblies for Dublin, Cork, Galway and possibly Waterford and Athlone too ought to be considered within a framework of reducing centralised Dublin power AND the parish pump council system currently in operation on both sides of the border.
Again, I have to say relocating a centralised parliament to the North would be nothing more than tokenistic. It hasn't exactly changed the lives of those in Eastern France to have the EU parliament in Strasbourg, has it?

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 03:59PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

A disunited Ireland has been fine for 90% of people on the island of Ireland.

I think that current and historical conditions in both parts of the island render that opinion nonsensical.

kidneyfan wrote: »

What I would like is to have Northern Ireland cut up like Baarle. The Bogside wants to be in the Republic and the Diamond in the United Kingdom No Problem! The Short Strand wants to be in the Republic? No Problem.

Institutionalised kerb painting is no solution.

Manach · 20-03-2013 04:02PM

I'd be interested in vote that brings a measure of closer union between Ireland and our closest neighbour and ally, the UK : within a community of nations such as Scotland, England and Wales with their own parliaments.

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 04:05PM

Manach wrote: »

I'd be interested in vote that brings a measure of closer union between Ireland and our closest neighbour and ally, the UK : within a community of nations such as Scotland, England and Wales with their own parliaments.

I'd be supportive of a currency union, and closer economic links. Britain itself is in a long process of renegotiating its own internal relationships, with parliaments in Scotland and Wales, and more mooted for England. We already and always will have close cultural links with the other island. I believe leaving the ailing euro and re-entering the sterling zone would be in the island of Ireland's interests.

kidneyfan · 20-03-2013 04:12PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I think that current and historical conditions in both parts of the island render that opinion nonsensical.

Then you must never have travelled outside Europe.

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 04:17PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

Then you must never have travelled outside Europe.

Your conclusion is spectacularly incorrect.

gallag · 20-03-2013 05:25PM

The united kingdom of great Britain and Ireland is the future. A United ireland back within the UK, Ireland would have its own parliament just like wales and Scotland.

Cavehill Red · 20-03-2013 07:56PM

gallag wrote: »

The united kingdom of great Britain and Ireland is the future past.

Fixed your typo.

COYW · 20-03-2013 08:51PM

gallag wrote: »

The united kingdom of great Britain and Ireland is the future. A United ireland back within the UK, Ireland would have its own parliament just like wales and Scotland.

I agree Gallag. It is the only genuine compromise I can see. Whatever way things progress, even if a UI never happens, our links (trade and cultural) are going to get stronger and stronger with the United Kingdom. Given the way things are going in the world, I find it very comforting to know that our bond with the UK is stronger than ever. This country is a safer place with the British army so close to our shores. I firmly believe that.

kidneyfan · 20-03-2013 10:52PM

gallag wrote: »

The united kingdom of great Britain and Ireland is the future. A United ireland back within the UK, Ireland would have its own parliament just like wales and Scotland.

Ireland would have to have a rather higher status than Wales or Scotland. For example it might be appropriate for Dublin to become the diplomatic capital of the re United Kingdom and for the Supreme Court to be based in "Londonderry".

Only problem with this is that the only people who want it are a minority of northern Prods.

Nodin · 21-03-2013 12:41AM

COYW wrote: »

I agree Gallag. It is the only genuine compromise I can see. Whatever way things progress, even if a UI never happens, our links (trade and cultural) are going to get stronger and stronger with the United Kingdom. Given the way things are going in the world, I find it very comforting to know that our bond with the UK is stronger than ever. This country is a safer place with the British army so close to our shores. I firmly believe that.

...considering the hostility towards same across large parts of the globe, I'd suggest your belief needs review. Besides, the future of the country is far more linked with Europe - a step backwards into some bizarre union is not on any realistic horizon.

Godge · 21-03-2013 12:48AM

gallag wrote: »

The united kingdom of great Britain and Ireland is the future. A United ireland back within the UK, Ireland would have its own parliament just like wales and Scotland.

If there was a preferendum across the two major islands, this would be the winning outcome.

I know that is hard for the die-hard nationalists to accept but the dream of a united Ireland is only a dream, a far-fetched dream.

the great purveyor of mediocrity · 21-03-2013 12:58AM

A United Ireland ?
A Referendum in order to make it so?
I would be voting "YES".
Cue the party of the century.
I'd say I would shed many tears. First time since I saw Michael Carruth collecting his Gold medal.......that I'll admit to anyway!
The English should have ended their occupation of the six counties a long time ago and make things right here. Personally I would forgive all immediately and feel that we could commence a real and genuine relationship with England.

Cavehill Red · 21-03-2013 01:08AM

We will never be able to commence a truly genuine relationship with Britain UNTIL they cease occupying a quarter of our national territory. That's the truth of it. Of course, they know that and would be happy to implement it. The sticking point remains the settler population's intransigence.

Cavehill Red · 21-03-2013 01:10AM

Godge wrote: »

If there was a preferendum across the two major islands, this would be the winning outcome.

On the contrary, every opinion poll taken in living memory indicates Britain wants OUT of Ireland, not further in.

Aughrim1691. · 21-03-2013 11:49AM

I would vote No. Ulster will stay within the Union for the foreseeable. Federalism is a big no also. I'd be voting to preserve a way of life for my people and that is as important as any line on a map. Voting for the land and the sacred place it has for all Ulster Protestants.

If people have aspirations for a centralized government, big government, fine. Not everyone agrees with that point of view.

The best introduction to astronomy is to think of the nightly heavens as a little lot of stars belonging to one's own homestead. - George Eliot

gallag · 21-03-2013 12:11PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

Ireland would have to have a rather higher status than Wales or Scotland. For example it might be appropriate for Dublin to become the diplomatic capital of the re United Kingdom and for the Supreme Court to be based in "Londonderry".

Only problem with this is that the only people who want it are a minority of northern Prods.

No one would have a higher status, four nation's all equal. Why do you believe ireland should have higher status?

gallag · 21-03-2013 12:17PM

the great purveyor of mediocrity wrote: »

A United Ireland ?
A Referendum in order to make it so?
I would be voting "YES".
Cue the party of the century.
I'd say I would shed many tears. First time since I saw Michael Carruth collecting his Gold medal.......that I'll admit to anyway!
The English should have ended their occupation of the six counties a long time ago and make things right here. Personally I would forgive all immediately and feel that we could commence a real and genuine relationship with England.

How can it be called an "English occupation" when the majority of people in N.Ireland are from the irish/Catholic/nationlist/Republican community but would still vote in favour of remaining part of the UK? Time to move on buddy. I say lets have a vote the same time as Scotland and have a stronger union at the end of it.

Referendum for Irish Unity 2022

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