Irish blood, English heart. Diaspora question.

Balmed Out · 18-03-2013 09:27AM

If you want to be Irishand have an ethnic, cultural or even spiritual connection then in my book you're Irish

philologos · 18-03-2013 09:30AM

realies wrote: »

My elder brother & sister were born in London to Irish parents, They were brought back here when they where four months old, lived and worked here ever since,there now 54, So according to some people here there not Irish ? Must give them a ring and tell them :-)

They were raised in Ireland. I'd say if you're raised in Britain then the argument starts to be clearer that one can be ethnically Irish but also British by culture simultaneously.

Peregrinus · 18-03-2013 09:38AM

Of course it's possible to be both British and Irish. Norn Irn is full of them.

Nationality is a cultural artefact, and quite a complex one. There is no rule that says it has to be a simple binary, that you either are or are not a member of a particular nation, or that you can only be a member of one nation.

Can you be Irish wihout being born in Ireland? Certainly. We are a nation, part of whose identity and story is defined by emigration.

dekeed · 18-03-2013 09:38AM

It just goes to show how much we love to label people. Labelling others, unfortunately gives US a better sense of who we are. It's ridiculous really. Don't look for logic in human behaviour...
My point?
Feel Irish... Are Irish. Great to have you aboard!
Cead Mile Failte!

CaraMay · 18-03-2013 09:40AM

Balmed Out wrote: »

If you want to be Irishand have an ethnic, cultural or even spiritual connection then in my book you're Irish

This is what is said by wannabes. I might feel a spiritual connection with Thailand but doesn't mean I am Thai....

Annasopra · 18-03-2013 10:39AM

I never understand this whole thing about arguing over who is Irish or who is not Irish.

Southern Wagon. · 18-03-2013 10:41AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Of course it's possible to be both British and Irish. Norn Irn is full of them.

Nationality is a cultural artefact, and quite a complex one. There is no rule that says it has to be a simple binary, that you either are or are not a member of a particular nation, or that you can only be a member of one nation.

Can you be Irish wihout being born in Ireland? Certainly. We are a nation, part of whose identity and story is defined by emigration.

There is a difference between nationality and blood. Northern Ireland has two different ethnic groups which is based on blood and culture.

Sunnyisland · 18-03-2013 11:07AM

Your Irish if
you order three more drinks when the barman calls last orders
you tell someone to ‘f*** off’ when they compliment you
you use the phrase ‘f*** off’ to mean ‘are you serious?’
you answer a question with ‘you know yourself’
you drink tae (it must be ‘tae’) and eat ‘hang sangiches’ out of the boot of your car on your way to a GAA match
you take the ‘makings of a fry’ on holiday with you
you use the phrase, “I’ll do it now, in a minute.”
you use garden equipment in a sentence – ‘I had a rake of drink last night’; ‘I shovelled the dinner into me’
you think that you’ve ‘got Mass’ simply by standing outside the church talking about GAA with the auld lads
you sing ‘Olé Olé Olé’ after taking the lead in any sport
you can’t speak a word of it!

Slainte.

18-03-2013 02:07PM

If Boards were alive during Italia 90, this thread would have read so differently.

R P McMurphy · 18-03-2013 02:18PM

BBDBB wrote: »

yeah, lets get all picky and divisive over where someone was born and who their parents and even grandparents were, thats a fair and just measure of people :rolleyes:

I think it should go by where the person was conceived not born, that seems much fairer. And for the record I am Irish and so is my sister

Red Pepper · 18-03-2013 02:29PM

If you were born abroad but started living in Ireland before the age of say 4, I think you can consider yourself Irish. After that it gets fuzzy.

Duck Soup · 18-03-2013 02:30PM

Gatling wrote: »

No no no no ,

Kids would be Brits ,

Dont care if your not born and raised here your not Irish sorry that's the way it is,
If your born and raises in england your a Brit,
Same for the stupid yanklands ,

What feeling Irish exactly got to do with it ,

A perfectly logical and reasonable point of view. And, as someone born in England of Irish parents (and with three brothers, all born in Ireland) it's a viewpoint I'm familiar with.

Irish people who tell you you're not really Irish. English people who tell you that you're not really British.

Personally, I'm glad of being neither fish nor fowl as it gives you an interesting perspective on nationalism. I have an instinctive distrust of people who trumpet their nationality above all else. It's like they want kudos for being born on a particular piece of earth. Many times, it's their finest achievement in life (have you ever noticed how many of the white power organizations are filled with what can only be called white trash?).

It makes the point to me that nationality and national identity are completely arbitrary, a simple turn of fate. That in turn makes me highly suspicious of politicians who demand that you go out and die for your particular piece of earth. You'll notice politicians' sons and daughters very rarely go out and volunteer to die for the nation.

I travel on an Irish passport because it's the one I feel most comfortable with (yes, I feel Irish) and is a lot safer than using a British one in many parts of the world.

If we're to take the strict metric for Irishness as being place of birth, we then have to acknowledge that James Connolly, Jim Larkin, Éamon de Valera, Paul McGrath and Phil Lynott were categorically not Irish. A load of Brits and a Yank.

But if a Paddy wants to call me a Brit and a Brit wants to call me a Paddy, so be it. Knock yourself out.

Red Pepper · 18-03-2013 02:33PM

mango salsa wrote: »

I never understand this whole thing about arguing over who is Irish or who is not Irish.

Tis far from 'mango salsa' I was raised!

18-03-2013 02:42PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

If you were born abroad but started living in Ireland before the age of say 4, I think you can consider yourself Irish. After that it gets fuzzy.

I think you can be much older than 4. I'd say all the way up to secondary school, but it depends where you come from. My dad is Irish and I'd visited Ireland regularly all my life before we moved over when I was 10/11, so it wasn't a massive culture shock or anything and I picked up the accent within a few months to the extent that nobody could tell I'd ever lived in England. I was considered local by the end of the first year of secondary. If you have no Irish background at all and have to learn the language on top of everything, then 10/11 might be very late and you might never feel Irish. It depends on the circumstances, really.

Duck Soup · 18-03-2013 03:05PM

Also not Irish: Dermot Morgan (born in England), Cyril Cusack (born in South Africa), Ronan O'Gara (born in US), Frank McCourt (born in US), The Edge (born in England), Shane MacGowan (born in England) and Johnny Logan (born in Australia).

dd972 · 18-03-2013 03:21PM

Born in U.S, never set foot in Ireland and descendants disembarked in Ellis Island in 1852 = Irish American

Born anywhere else except the UK to Irish parents = Irish

Born a thirty minute flight away in the UK to Irish parents, holds an Irish passport, spent every summer of their lives here, grown up in and around other Irish people, fully informed of all aspects of Irish cultural and political life, both historical and contemporary = 'Brit', 'Tan', 'Wannabe', 'Plastic Paddy'

You can fluent 'as gaelige', change your name to Seosamh O'Ceallaigh, hold an honours degree in Irish history, yet there are still those who think that any sort of connection with Sasana like the hospital you were born in ( which no one chooses ) or your accent ( accents are superficial and malleable ) somehow strips you of all vestiges of Irishness.

Ironically, the people who reject you and belittle you also masturbate over Larkin, Connolly, Countess Markiewicz, Thomas Clarke, David O'Leary and Paul McGrath :rolleyes:

Duck Soup · 18-03-2013 03:26PM

dd972 wrote: »

Born in U.S, never set foot in Ireland and descendants disembarked in Ellis Island in 1852 = Irish American

Born anywhere else except the UK to Irish parents = Irish

Born a thirty minute flight away in the UK to Irish parents, holds an Irish passport, spent every summer of their lives here, grown up in and around other Irish people, fully informed of all aspects of Irish cultural and political life, both historical and contemporary = 'Brit', 'Tan', 'Wannabe', 'Plastic Paddy'

You can fluent 'as gaelige', change your name to Seosamh O'Ceallaigh, hold an honours degree in Irish history, yet there are still those who think that any sort of connection with Sasana like the hospital you were born in ( which no one chooses ) or your accent ( accents are superficial and malleable ) somehow strips you of all vestiges of Irishness.

Ironically, the people who reject you and belittle you also masturbate over Larkin, Connolly, Countess Markiewicz, Thomas Clarke, David O'Leary and Paul McGrath :rolleyes:

That was the one I forgot! Thomas J. Clarke, born on the Isle of Wight, moved to South Africa when he was one, set foot in Ireland for the first time when he was seven. Oh and was executed as one of the leaders of the Easter Uprising.

Gotta hate those plastics.

WoollyRedHat · 18-03-2013 03:28PM

shootie wrote: »

Morrissey reference. I like it son.

One of the reasons Ireland is a free republic (well, depending on your opinion on E.U influence) today is due to a man who was born in the U.S of a Spanish father.

I was born in London to Irish parents and I remember being called English here as a youngster when I claimed to be Irish. Then my young self would of course believe what I was being told and eventually people would say I was pretending to be English as I got older because I had Irish parents! In my opinion people have a right to be whatever they consider their home. This "what blood you have" or "where you were born" is a load of crap.

Unless they're an English vampire, going after Irish people for their blood, then it's a different matter entirely.

Irish blood, English heart. Diaspora question.

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