Irish blood, English heart. Diaspora question.

Johnerrr · 18-03-2013 02:59AM #1

So, Someone born & raised in england, english accent; of irish descent, maybe a parent who's irish & all 4 grandparents irish.

Does this person, iyo, have the right to say theyre Irish? Or are they just seen as brit/english to the locals upon arriving on the emerald isle, if they claimed irishness would they be deemed a "pplastic paddy"?

I can think of a few examples: celtic fans in scotland waving irish tricolours at matches, irish-americans referring to themselves as irish, and closer to home even dermott o'leary, presenter of the X factor UK, says he "feels more irish".

B0X · 18-03-2013 03:00AM

Do you want to play football for us or something?

Gatling · 18-03-2013 03:01AM

If they weren't born here ,

There not Irish ,

Johnerrr · 18-03-2013 03:04AM

No lol B0x but you make a good point there, im pretty sure andy townsend chose to play for Ireland

nocoverart · 18-03-2013 03:04AM

Great song that! I like a bit of Morrissey. Rather Burgers though

JoseJones · 18-03-2013 03:06AM

Johnerrr wrote: »

So, Someone born & raised in england, english accent; of irish descent, maybe a parent who's irish & all 4 grandparents irish.

Does this person, iyo, have the right to say theyre Irish? Or are they just seen as brit/english to the locals upon arriving on the emerald isle, if they claimed irishness would they be deemed a "pplastic paddy"?

I can think of a few examples: celtic fans in scotland waving irish tricolours at matches, irish-americans referring to themselves as irish, and closer to home even dermott o'leary, presenter of the X factor UK, says he "feels more irish".

They will be called a plastic paddy and they will be called a brit but the criteria for being Irish is not purely that you are born here. Much more to it than that.

There was a thread on this recently too and I said the same thing, if I had kids born in the UK I would still like to think of them as being Irish.

stretchdoe · 18-03-2013 03:08AM

..this i'm made of,

there is no-one on earth i'm afraid of.

shootie · 18-03-2013 03:09AM

Morrissey reference. I like it son.

One of the reasons Ireland is a free republic (well, depending on your opinion on E.U influence) today is due to a man who was born in the U.S of a Spanish father.

I was born in London to Irish parents and I remember being called English here as a youngster when I claimed to be Irish. Then my young self would of course believe what I was being told and eventually people would say I was pretending to be English as I got older because I had Irish parents! In my opinion people have a right to be whatever they consider their home. This "what blood you have" or "where you were born" is a load of crap.

Johnerrr · 18-03-2013 03:11AM

Jose, on the UK census form there is an ethnicity section, now surely a person which I described would not be inclined to tick british instead of irish, that would be like a pakistani ticking british, its not part of their genetic make-up/ancestry.

Gatling · 18-03-2013 03:12AM

No no no no ,

Kids would be Brits ,

Dont care if your not born and raised here your not Irish sorry that's the way it is,
If your born and raises in england your a Brit,
Same for the stupid yanklands ,

What feeling Irish exactly got to do with it ,

Weathering · 18-03-2013 03:17AM

I'm poor I must be Irish

stretchdoe · 18-03-2013 03:17AM

As someone born and raised in Ireland, i'd say of course anyone born in England, or any other country, of Irish parentage, or with one Irish parent, has the right to call themselves Irish, if that's what they feel they are, and has as much claim to being Irish as anyone.

Procasinator · 18-03-2013 03:18AM

Gatling wrote: »

No no no no ,

Kids would be Brits ,

Dont care if your not born and raised here your not Irish sorry that's the way it is,
If your born and raises in england your a Brit,
Same for the stupid yanklands ,

What feeling Irish exactly got to do with it ,

They can claim Irish citizenship and nationality if their parents or grandparents are Irish citizens. So your opinion would be in disagreement with the law.

So if the question is does the person have a right to say they are Irish, the answer is yes.

stretchdoe · 18-03-2013 03:19AM

Gatling wrote: »

No no no no ,

Kids would be Brits ,

Dont care if your not born and raised here your not Irish sorry that's the way it is,
If your born and raises in england your a Brit,
Same for the stupid yanklands ,

What feeling Irish exactly got to do with it ,

quite troll-like, that post.

Chuck Stone · 18-03-2013 03:21AM

Johnerrr wrote: »

Does this person, iyo, have the right to say theyre Irish?

Yes. But then I'd support a person's freedom to call himself a Klingon if that's what he wanted.

Or are they just seen as brit/english to the locals upon arriving on the emerald isle

By a lot of people yes.

I can think of a few examples: celtic fans in scotland waving irish tricolours at matches, irish-americans referring to themselves as irish, and closer to home even dermott o'leary, presenter of the X factor UK, says he "feels more irish".

Welcome aboard I say.

Gatling · 18-03-2013 03:22AM

Procasinator wrote: »

They can claim Irish citizenship and nationality if their parents or grandparents are Irish citizens. So your opinion would be in disagreement with the law.

So if the question is does the person have a right to say they are Irish, the answer is yes.

Citizenship be claimed by half of nigera and Poland still doesn't mean there Irish except on a piece of paper ,at the last citizenship ceremony there was interviews of various nationalies now Irish ,all said then same thing I always felt Irish for a long time ,
So what is feeling Irish

Dingle_berry · 18-03-2013 03:25AM

Gatling wrote: »

If they weren't born here ,

There not Irish ,

My younger sister were born abroad to Irish parents. My older siblings were born in Ireland. My parents moved back here 20 years ago, so the two of us born abroad were pretty much raised here. All of us at least went through secondary and tertiary education here.
By your definition my older siblings who speak no Irish, haven't lived here for years and don't intend to are more irish than the two of us that identify most strongly as Irish, are still contributing to the Irish state and society. All because of where we were born. Incidentally the only citizenship we can claim is Irish as our parents are Irish and we didn't spend more than 8 years in the country we were born in.

Your birthplace or citizenship don't identify you as Irish. I'd say fitting in to Irish society and contributing to it make you Irish. Having Irish ancestry (whether that's a parent or great grandparent) makes you of Irish descent or something similar.

stretchdoe · 18-03-2013 03:31AM

Gatling wrote: »

Citizenship be claimed by half of nigera and Poland still doesn't mean there Irish except on a piece of paper ,

If you're an Irish citizen, you're Irish.
The Republic of Ireland is a country, one whose inhabitants exist, currently, due to an influx of people from various places in the world.
You seem to be mixing up nationality and race.
Someone of Nigerian parentage, for instance, who holds Irish citizenship, is just as Irish as you.

JoseJones · 18-03-2013 03:32AM

Gatling wrote: »

Citizenship be claimed by half of nigera and Poland still doesn't mean there Irish except on a piece of paper ,at the last citizenship ceremony there was interviews of various nationalies now Irish ,all said then same thing I always felt Irish for a long time ,
So what is feeling Irish

You're contradicting yourself. You say that you are only Irish if you are born here. Then you say half of Poland and Nigeria claim to be Irish (because they are born here presumably), but under your rules then they are Irish no? They are born here.

Gatling · 18-03-2013 03:37AM

stretchdoe wrote: »

If you're an Irish citizen, you're Irish.
The Republic of Ireland is a country, one whose inhabitants exist, currently, due to an influx of people from various places in the world.
You seem to be mixing up nationality and race.
Someone of Nigerian parentage, for instance, who holds Irish citizenship, is just as Irish as you.

My post was unfinished I edited it, as I said multiple nationalities now Irish ,some when asked how does it feel to be Irish ,I felt Irish for a very long time ,
So what is feeling Irish

Non national's can claim citizenship here after 5 or 7 years if I remember correct ,

Its entitles them to and Irish passport and welfare and so on

Popinjay · 18-03-2013 03:39AM

I'm in Australia with an Australian missus who has an Irish dad.

When we have kids, they will be three-quarters Irish. They'll be born in Australia and raised in Australia, so as far as I'm concerned, my kids will be Australian. If there is any patriotism, I will expect and encourage them to display it towards their Australian homeland.

I will, of course, teach them about their Irish heritage and would hope that they would embrace this and be proud of it, to an extent (insofar as nationality or birthplace is anything to be proud of). The non-irish ancestry on their mother's side will be dutch. I don't know much about dutch history myself but I will also try to teach them about this, insofar as I can.

But, they will always be Australian, just like no matter how long I live here (eligible - and applying for - Australian citizenship in October), I will always be Irish.

My kids might see things differently when they're older, but see Dara O'Briain's bit about 'I love my English son'.

Edit for clarity: My missus identifies as Aussie and loves winding up her filthy paddy fiance.

December2012 · 18-03-2013 03:40AM

Havin the craic like.

stretchdoe · 18-03-2013 03:41AM

Gatling wrote: »

My post was unfinished I edited it, as I said multiple nationalities now Irish ,some when asked how does it feel to be Irish ,I felt Irish for a very long time ,
So what is feeling Irish

I don't know what 'feeling' Irish is, exactly; it might mean different things to different people.
What i meant to convey is that if one wishes to be Irish, and has a claim to it, then of course they're Irish.

Gatling · 18-03-2013 04:12AM

For instance my grandparents would have been born around 1911 if i remember correctly while the country was under British rule , so some people could say my/a lot of grand parents were British ,which was said while living in the UK stupid as it sounds

18-03-2013 04:18AM

Gatling wrote: »

If they weren't born here ,

There not Irish ,

Simplistic little world view you have there. What if you're born elsewhere, but grow up in Ireland? If I were born in Paris while my parents were on a little romantic break there, am I not Irish?

I was born in England and lived there until I was 10, when I moved to Ireland. My mam is English and my dad is Irish. I consider myself equal parts English and Irish and I don't see how anyone could really dispute that.

celticwe · 18-03-2013 04:18AM

Gatling wrote: »

If they weren't born here ,

There not Irish ,

they're:o

Chuck Stone · 18-03-2013 04:35AM

celticwe wrote: »

they're:o

celticwe wrote: »

When your submitting everything

you're

Doncha think that when your going two correct other peoples apostrophisationalism's ewe should bee good at it yerself?

BBDBB · 18-03-2013 08:26AM

yeah, lets get all picky and divisive over where someone was born and who their parents and even grandparents were, thats a fair and just measure of people :rolleyes:

philologos · 18-03-2013 08:47AM

Johnerrr wrote: »

So, Someone born & raised in england, english accent; of irish descent, maybe a parent who's irish & all 4 grandparents irish.

Does this person, iyo, have the right to say theyre Irish? Or are they just seen as brit/english to the locals upon arriving on the emerald isle, if they claimed irishness would they be deemed a "pplastic paddy"?

I can think of a few examples: celtic fans in scotland waving irish tricolours at matches, irish-americans referring to themselves as irish, and closer to home even dermott o'leary, presenter of the X factor UK, says he "feels more irish".

British but ethnically Irish.

The same for any other immigrant group. For example second generation from Pakistan raised in Britain, British but ethnically Pakistani.

CaraMay · 18-03-2013 08:57AM

IMO you shouldn't be called Irish if you weren't born here or have never lived here. There is more to brung Irish than having a passport - it's a mentality. So the yanks who have 1 Irish great granny aren't Irish, they are American. Dunno how dermot o'leary can describe himself as Irish. There sure are a lot of wannabes out there.

Sunnyisland · 18-03-2013 09:17AM

My elder brother & sister were born in London to Irish parents, They were brought back here when they where four months old, lived and worked here ever since,there now 54, So according to some people here there not Irish ? Must give them a ring and tell them :-)

Irish blood, English heart. Diaspora question.

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