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revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    MadsL wrote: »
    When did Ireland become the Glorious Socialist People's Republic of Irelandski?

    You may not like the sentiment, but I believe Ireland still permits capitalism, without people being called a traitor to the Socialist Revolution.

    ;)

    Says the lad wanting more tax and more regulation on where people are allowed to live and build houses


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Kichote wrote: »
    Says the lad wanting more tax and more regulation on where people are allowed to live and build houses

    Show me a capitalist state without planning and taxes. Off you go find one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    MadsL wrote: »
    Show me a capitalist state without planning and taxes. Off you go find one.

    Dafuq? What has that to do with anything and dont mind trying to act the condescending bossy boot with me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    Only problem then is....who to vote for.

    DDI


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭darkhorse


    MadsL wrote: »
    darkhorse wrote: »
    MadsL wrote: »
    But it is not your "own" until one glorious day when the bank hand you the deeds after your last payment.

    I don't need to think carefully, property taxes tax the amenity of the property. The bank has no amenity of the property unless you want to sublet it to them for the annual BBQ. You do 'own' the property legally, except that you have given that over in security to the bank in exchange for the mortgage cash to pay the previous owner.

    Not really hard to figure out.

    OK, I usually am an easy going guy, but my patience just ran out with you. You should read your post before you submit your reply. In one post you say that I do not own my property/home, and in another post you say that I do own it. It can only be one or the other. One more question. Can you actually differentiate between ordinary text and bold. Would it be more easily understood if I colour coded my posts for you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Kichote wrote: »
    Dafuq? What has that to do with anything and dont mind trying to act the condescending bossy boot with me.

    Basic economics. Well done on pretending you don't know what capitalism and socialism mean.

    Now, which country did you have in mind that has no taxes or planning regulation?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    darkhorse wrote: »

    OK, I usually am an easy going guy, but my patience just ran out with you. You should read your post before you submit your reply. In one post you say that I do not own my property/home, and in another post you say that I do own it. It can only be one or the other. One more question. Can you actually differentiate between ordinary text and bold. Would it be more easily understood if I colour coded my posts for you.

    It would be easier if you could just understand the relationship between you and your bank in relation to your house and the nature of the tax. If you think you something is fully yours before you discharge any charge on it, then the nature of a mortgage escapes you.

    Now the tax is an amenity tax, like motor tax, and has nothing to do with the legal ownership - except that usually follows that the owner (the person getting the amenity from the item taxed) is the person liable. If you read the regulations you will see that a person living in a house rent-free where they do not identify anyone else as the liable person is also liable for the tax.

    That clear enough?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    MadsL wrote: »
    Now the tax is an amenity tax, like motor tax
    The motor tax link again, its like the godwins law of property tax threads.

    They simply want more money off people, and property is an easy target. This amenity tax idea is simply another idea of whats being taxed. Different posters have had different ideas on the other thread. In reality, our great leaders couldnt care less. They simply want more money.
    If you read the regulations you will see that a person living in a house rent-free where they do not identify anyone else as the liable person is also liable for the tax.
    There ends your amenity tax idea. The renter is not really liable.

    They have simply been told the money will forcibly be taken off them if they dont name who is liable. The revenue can word it how they like. Renters, who are benefiting from the "amenity", are not liable. The property owner is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Bruthal wrote: »
    There ends your amenity tax idea. The renter is not really liable.

    Ah, very clever. i guess you have me there...

    Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    I see this new campaign has started, with the people involved promising to absolve homeowners from any lability to revenue.

    Personally, I'm very wary of such groups myself, but if it results in a mass movement of people uniting against the govt, it can't do much harm tbh.

    Thought I'd share regardless.
    Billy Hynes and a team of lay litigants have devised a challenge to the revenue/gov. on the property tax Called “attack the tax”. Billy will be skyping into the next Forum4Change meet up on the 18th to explain more and answer questions. Billy has worked with many people over the years and has successfully helped many people in the high court challenging their mortgages etc. Billy and his team are taking a class action against the government/revenue on the legality/lawfulness and constitutionality of the revenue attack on our people. They ARE ROLLING THIS OUT all over the country and they want us to organise it up here in Donegal, Philip Mc Fadden and Joe Murphy are going to put it out to all the anti austerity groups. Attack the Tax is going to suit those who don’t get the “return to sender” solution and the concept of not contracting, simple though it seems, not everyone has the strength to realise their sovereignty nor do they have the time or are in the position to practise the conduct and behaviour that is required in order to avoid not contracting with corporations on the phone and on the doorstep etc..

    So people can become a part of this class action by simply signing up for it…. it will suit the masses and also and more importantly it will bring all the groups in Ireland together. Ben Gilroy is on board and is going to mention “attack the tax” on the Vincent Browne show next Tues night 19th March. Any action that will/can halt the psychopaths in this Government who masquerade as representatives of the people and who are clearly intent on stripping the wealth (that is if there is any left) from the people has to be worth getting on board IMHO.

    Basically a class action in the republic cannot happen with a group of people unless they are a company......so if you want on board you simply pay €2 to become a shareholder, the legal/lawful challenge action will be lodged in the high court very soon.....and while all this is going on......the revenue cant touch those who part of the action/legal challenge.....this could go on for years.....and a there is a good chance of winning as well......this is going to be a big spanner in the works for the revenue.......if more than 50% of people get on this then the Gov/revenue will have no mandate.....we need to spread this to as many people as possible......we could get outside Post Offices for instance.....most people will gladly pay 2 euro to be a part of any challenge.........Billy and his group legally challenged the household charge and they have a case still pending on this......this may be the reason the gov. kind of let the household charge go and are forcing in the property tax instead and also why they are going to try to get the revenue to snatch wages etc from those who do not pay.....they are panicking now and they sound desperate to get people, using the revenue as the big stick. They realise people wont register and wont pay or wont comply.... so they are resorting to threatening and bullying....but we all know what happens to bullies eventually.

    Check out the links below and send to all on your contact lists ……time is of the essence here…its up to us. spread these links far and wide. If you know anyone who has received letters from the revenue tell them to hold on for a few weeks, special “return to sender” labels are being constructed as we speak, once ready then all mail has to returned to the revenue with the sticker attached. Kim http://www.attackthetax.com/

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6uBM6UVHuXpUTlEdnMwQXNDRUU/edit?usp=sharing this is a video https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6uBM6UVHuXpclJMMjFtTTBNN2c/edit? usp=sharing this is poster https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6uBM6UVHuXpaWhYZVJqb05QRlk/edit? usp=sharing


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    MadsL wrote: »
    Ah, very clever. i guess you have me there...

    Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does
    .

    Not true at all.

    (you might want to check up on hire purchase terms and conditions on a vehicle)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    MadsL wrote: »
    Really? Because it comes across that you are pointing the finger at those who had some sense not to get involved in the property madness as somehow to blame. Care to explain?


    I see, back to resenting those who emigrate. You think that most of them emigrated by choice? Be thankful you have a job, how much tax do you think I would have paid on the dole?



    What was the cause of the recession if not the property bubble and subsequent crash? If not the only cause the property bubble deepened it massively. Neither my wife nor I worked in anything construction or property related. Would you say that the frenzy to buy overvalued property and crash didn't contribute to us being unemployed?

    When did you buy, out of interest?

    For me, it's the height of hypocrosy for someone in ANY other country trying to lecture us living in Ireland what we should and should not do, or have done in the past.

    NO MATTER what the circumstances, they are NOT in a position to lecture us. Here in Newbridge, we have roads littered with potholes. What do the council do? Sure come along and throw loose tar over the hole ( remember we have a parade tomorrow, and everything needs to be as clean as possible and functioning), then walk away. Now the tar is a MOUND, causing bumps. For me personally, I got my new driving license this week, and learnt that I will have to renew my truck and van license in 5 years, as someone decided to seperate the car (which is still valid for 10 years ) from the van license, thus causing more financial outlay. I had to GIVE UP my business because the govt(?) decided the company I pulled for needed to also make a PRSI payment every month. This past week, there was a new Pope elected. What do RTE do? Send ( at least 3) presenters over to stay in Rome for the white smoke ( sure they could have all headed up to Roscommon for that...but thats another days work:-)) I heard 3 different presenters there on RTE during the week ( Fergal Keane, Seán O'Rourke & Joe Little). WHY 3???? Sure the stupid taxpayer is paying for this:-(((

    Why am I saying all these things? I am just highlighting things that only someone living here can comprehend. The wastage, the free-riding, the abuse of public trust, the utter waste of public funds ( IE taxes) the 'fúck them' attitude by Kildare Street. You have NO idea whats going on here, and therefore think it's wrong for You to be lecturing US living here.

    Unless, of course, You do live here, just pretending You don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,784 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    darkhorse wrote: »
    DDI

    Do you think your man is going to win in East Meath?

    http://directdemocracyireland.ie/author/ben/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    jaysus , i wish he would just for some fresh blood, the gene pool is seriously stagnated...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    MadsL wrote: »
    Basic economics. Well done on pretending you don't know what capitalism and socialism mean.

    Now, which country did you have in mind that has no taxes or planning regulation?

    Find it yourself if you are so interested. I am not your dog who is here to 'go fetch' while you sit in your armchair.

    You do have some neck to be accusing people of thinking we're in commie land just because they dont agree with someone's buy to let wheeler dealer fantasy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Do you think your man is going to win in East Meath?

    http://directdemocracyireland.ie/author/ben/

    Hopefully not. He supports Sean Quinn and has links to UKIP and the Christian Solidarity Party

    http://redheadplace.blogspot.ie/2013/03/ben-gilroy-and-far-right.html?showComment=1363224102433

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    jaysus , i wish he would just for some fresh blood, the gene pool is seriously stagnated...

    I'd like to see him elected purely for the 'cat among the pigeon' effect he would have in the dail.

    Tbh though, and i say this as someone from outside that constituency, as long as Ms McEntee does not get elected, I will be happy enough.

    She may well be a nice enough girl, (I know next to nothing about her tbh), but if it takes her not to take that seat, just to show the Irish people that 'hereditary politics' is over in Ireland, and we were receiving the change and transparency in politics, promised by FG pre election, that will suit me ok.

    Hell, I'd even settle for your man from FF regaining that seat.

    Putting a young woman, prob still in mourning, to ride in on her dead fathers name will hopefully backfire on the FG party. They should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.

    Paddy power doesn't have much between them, I'd like to see them all take part in a televised debate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    SamHall wrote: »
    I see this new campaign has started, with the people involved promising to absolve homeowners from any lability to revenue.

    Personally, I'm very wary of such groups myself, but if it results in a mass movement of people uniting against the govt, it can't do much harm tbh.

    Thought I'd share regardless.

    I hope these people are also going to indemnify their punters for the interest and penalties they'll incur in the event that their action fails, which it will...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    SamHall wrote: »
    I'd like to see him elected purely for the 'cat among the pigeon' effect he would have in the dail.

    Tbh though, and i say this as someone from outside that constituency, as long as Ms McEntee does not get elected, I will be happy enough.

    She may well be a nice enough girl, (I know next to nothing about her tbh), but if it takes her not to take that seat, just to show the Irish people that 'hereditary politics' is over in Ireland, and we were receiving the change and transparency in politics, promised by FG pre election, that will suit me ok.

    Hell, I'd even settle for your man from FF regaining that seat.

    Putting a young woman, prob still in mourning, to ride in on her dead fathers name will hopefully backfire on the FG party. They should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.

    Paddy power doesn't have much between them, I'd like to see them all take part in a televised debate.

    Under Vincent Browne's stewardship!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    Hopefully not. He supports Sean Quinn and has links to UKIP and the Christian Solidarity Party

    http://redheadplace.blogspot.ie/2013/03/ben-gilroy-and-far-right.html?showComment=1363224102433

    Who cares? It's you who'll vote on issues in a directly democratic system not him. Either you want direct democracy or you don't.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    squod wrote: »
    Who cares? It's you who'll vote on issues in a directly democratic system not him. Either you want direct democracy or you don't.

    That 'source' provided would in no way be biassed either I'd assume.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    the concept of not contracting, simple though it seems, not everyone has the strength to realise their sovereignty

    Freeman mumbo jumbo. Debunked over and over.


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    For me, it's the height of hypocrosy for someone in ANY other country trying to lecture us living in Ireland what we should and should not do, or have done in the past.

    Thousands of expats will love you for that, but then you lose your right to vote even leaving for your holiday. Astonishingly the Irish people accept it.
    NO MATTER what the circumstances, they are NOT in a position to lecture us.
    I'm sure you will feel the same when you too emigrate. :rolleyes:
    Here in Newbridge, we have roads littered with potholes. What do the council do? Sure come along and throw loose tar over the hole ( remember we have a parade tomorrow, and everything needs to be as clean as possible and functioning), then walk away. Now the tar is a MOUND, causing bumps.

    What have you done about it?
    For me personally, I got my new driving license this week, and learnt that I will have to renew my truck and van license in 5 years, as someone decided to seperate the car (which is still valid for 10 years ) from the van license, thus causing more financial outlay.

    Post up a copy of the email you wrote to the Minister about it.
    I had to GIVE UP my business because the govt(?) decided the company I pulled for needed to also make a PRSI payment every month.
    You mean you were operating under the incorrect tax basis?
    This past week, there was a new Pope elected. What do RTE do? Send ( at least 3) presenters over to stay in Rome for the white smoke ( sure they could have all headed up to Roscommon for that...but thats another days work:-))

    I heard 3 different presenters there on RTE during the week ( Fergal Keane, Seán O'Rourke & Joe Little). WHY 3???? Sure the stupid taxpayer is paying for this:-(((

    Did you complain to RTE? Post up the email you sent.
    Why am I saying all these things? I am just highlighting things that only someone living here can comprehend. The wastage, the free-riding, the abuse of public trust, the utter waste of public funds ( IE taxes) the 'fúck them' attitude by Kildare Street. You have NO idea whats going on here, and therefore think it's wrong for You to be lecturing US living here.

    On the contrary, I am very aware of such things, and even from here have been pointing out such things as DCC's waste of money, and more importantly actually DOING something about it rather than objecting to someone's location on an internet forum. Here is an example of ACTION rather than the usual passivity when it comes to small yet wasteful issues in Ireland.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056878726
    Unless, of course, You do live here, just pretending You don't.
    Why on earth would I do that? Try not to let your hatred for those of us forced to emigrate blind make you paranoid.
    SamHall wrote: »
    Not true at all.

    (you might want to check up on hire purchase terms and conditions on a vehicle)

    A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different.
    You just proved my point.
    You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    SamHall wrote: »
    I'd like to see him elected purely for the 'cat among the pigeon' effect he would have in the dail.

    Tbh though, and i say this as someone from outside that constituency, as long as Ms McEntee does not get elected, I will be happy enough.

    She may well be a nice enough girl, (I know next to nothing about her tbh), but if it takes her not to take that seat, just to show the Irish people that 'hereditary politics' is over in Ireland, and we were receiving the change and transparency in politics, promised by FG pre election, that will suit me ok.

    Hell, I'd even settle for your man from FF regaining that seat.

    Putting a young woman, prob still in mourning, to ride in on her dead fathers name will hopefully backfire on the FG party. They should rightfully be ashamed of themselves.

    Paddy power doesn't have much between them, I'd like to see them all take part in a televised debate.


    i hear FG have chosen the theme for the party political broadcast...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Kichote wrote: »
    Find it yourself if you are so interested. I am not your dog who is here to 'go fetch' while you sit in your armchair.

    You do have some neck to be accusing people of thinking we're in commie land just because they dont agree with someone's buy to let wheeler dealer fantasy.

    I may not agree with their motives, but the last time I checked it was still legal to try and make a profit in Ireland, you might consider that next time you are having a go at someone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭Kichote


    MadsL wrote: »
    A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different.
    You just proved my point.
    You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.


    You pay someone else who passes the cost of the tax on to you. In a few years we might see a 'Tax de renting a home a la francaise' just in case you were lucky and found a landlord who didnt increase his rent to compensate for property tax. We do like to copy Europe after all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    I hope these people are also going to indemnify their punters for the interest and penalties they'll incur in the event that their action fails, which it will...

    i think the people of Ireland would qualify for free legal aid after FG for the last couple of years....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Kichote wrote: »
    You pay someone else who passes the cost of the tax on to you.

    So you are not disputing who is liable for the tax. Thank you. Case closed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Le_Dieux


    MadsL wrote: »
    Freeman mumbo jumbo. Debunked over and over.





    Thousands of expats will love you for that, but then you lose your right to vote even leaving for your holiday. Astonishingly the Irish people accept it.


    I'm sure you will feel the same when you too emigrate. :rolleyes:



    What have you done about it?



    Post up a copy of the email you wrote to the Minister about it.


    You mean you were operating under the incorrect tax basis?



    Did you complain to RTE? Post up the email you sent.



    On the contrary, I am very aware of such things, and even from here have been pointing out such things as DCC's waste of money, and more importantly actually DOING something about it rather than objecting to someone's location on an internet forum. Here is an example of ACTION rather than the usual passivity when it comes to small yet wasteful issues in Ireland.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056878726


    Why on earth would I do that? Try not to let your hatred for those of us forced to emigrate blind make you paranoid.



    A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different.
    You just proved my point.
    You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.

    What a shítstirrer. You MUST be dvpower under a new guise..you must.

    FYI, I haven't had a holiday in 4 years trying to stay afloat. About the tax/prsi, I paid my taxes but worked for myself...nah WTF should I explain to someone who doesn't live in IRELAND??

    I am probably going to get banned by the Mods over this, but what the hell..Mods, PLEASE do me a favour then, and check this jokers ISPN, and see if it's in any way related to dvpower's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    @Madsl

    You originally said:
    Except the landlord leases his amenity value in exchange for a thing called rent, that is why property taxes fall to the owner. To draw another example, you do not pay motor tax when you rent a vehicle, the owner does.

    With a HP agreement on a cat etc, the details/legal bit will 99.9% of the time say something along the lines of ' Under a hire purchase agreement, the consumer does not actually own the goods until the last installment is paid, although he or she has full use of the goods throughout the repayment period.'

    You go on then to say:
    A hire purchase agreement is the motor equivalent of a mortgage, renting a car is different. You just proved my point. You pay the motor tax when you take a HP agreement and purchase the vehicle, just like a mortgage and the Property Tax. You do not pay motor tax when hiring for the day, week etc - just like renting a house.

    Yet, in black and white, it states clear as crystal that : the consumer does not actually own the goods until the last installment is paid

    You're a tad confused this morning.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Le_Dieux wrote: »
    What a ****stirrer. You MUST be dvpower under a new guise..you must.

    FYI, I haven't had a holiday in 4 years trying to stay afloat. About the tax/prsi, I paid my taxes but worked for myself...nah WTF should I explain to someone who doesn't live in IRELAND??

    As I suspected, even though you live there (some weird right to have an opinion based on your address in your view) and have listed a whole bunch of grievances - you actually haven't even sent one email to try and change things have you?? And yet you expect change. :(
    I am probably going to get banned by the Mods over this, but what the hell..Mods, PLEASE do me a favour then, and check this jokers, and see if it's in any way related to dvpower's.

    Have some sense, I regged in 2003 ffs.


This discussion has been closed.
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