revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

lazygal · 15-03-2013 09:29PM

SamHall wrote: »

I wouldn't bet on that lazygal.

Unless you have the cash to bridge the gap in the negative equity, or buy outright, the bank might be very, very reluctant to give you another mortgage.

Close friends of ours wanted to go down that route, bank refused the mortgage.

I wish you and your husband the best of luck however.

Luckily for us my husband was saving instead of buying during the boom times and our NE isn't massive. We've already done inquiries and would get a mortgage. I know two other couples in similar situations, in one case they both owned apartments that were rented out and were approved for a mortgage for a house no bother. If you've built up a nice whack of savings and can prove the rent will cover the mortgage, it makes things a lot easier

Banjo String · 15-03-2013 09:33PM

lazygal wrote: »

Luckily for us my husband was saving instead of buying during the boom times and our NE isn't massive. We've already done inquiries and would get a mortgage. I know two other couples in similar situations, in one case they both owned apartments that were rented out and were approved for a mortgage for a house no bother. If you've built up a nice whack of savings and can prove the rent will cover the mortgage, it makes things a lot easier

Why don't you just sell up so, get another mortgage?

Why the need to rent the property in negative equity?

You do realise that if your wish that

I'd love an increase in repossessions. It'll further deflate the property market

comes true, you know what that will mean?

Further deflation of the property market means further inflation to your negative equity troubles.

I don't think you and your husband have thought this out too well in fairness.

heartseeker · 15-03-2013 09:33PM

username123 wrote: »

How are you making out its discretionary? For anyone today who is a homeowner in negative equity, there is nothing discretionary about it. My bank will not allow me to sell my home unless I settle the outstanding NE - there are thousands like me. Ditto older people in homes 20 or 30 years. Are you suggesting they sell up and rent? Is this the society you want? Oh, you dont live here so you probably dont know how it is for people, well its difficult and if people have low income or no income there is no option except moneylending from the government with interest.

I am inclined to think that most people posting here who are in favour of this tax are not homeowners in Ireland. I must say, the opinions offered do not reflect my experiences in the real world where people are angry, upset and very very worried about how they are going to pay this. Most people I know are already struggling.

With that Im leaving this thread, as the utter lack of empathy for people in less fortunate financial circumstances is just too much for me to bear. I am worried enough about my own financial situation and to read some of the posts here just makes me think that there is no future for this country because if the heartlessness displayed is true of ordinary society then there really is no hope.

Hey am glad you realised in time how these threads work.For your own sanity I advise you to find other ways to hook up with community members and discuss because I worked in the media and financial industries and I can tell that the opinions being expressed here do not speak for the majority.See with a corrupt and rogue state like we have presently your faith in the system is all that is required to selfpreserve it.So the various people that retort your arguments know exactly how ridiculously unfair their comments are but so long as they can keep you going round in circles trying to validate your point and believing it makes a difference is how they convince you to keep believing in it and break your will/spirit.The obvious trolls on here that deflect away from the growing anger and quell you and all of us feel by making you think that your opinion is in the minority when its clearly not and thats why democracy and the European monetary system is on the verge of collapsing.With the vested interest groups involved dont be suprised or naive enough to think that your not being manipulated on this thread right now because you are.That ain't no conspiracy theory its just the reality ...and a small one at that ie.the very least of the deception and underhand tactics the wealthy elete are taking.But keep the faith.I wish you well.And get ready for the change that is coming down the line.All the best.

bgrizzley · 15-03-2013 09:37PM

lazygal wrote: »

my husband will be able to afford to buy another property that's larger and rent our current home..

lazygal wrote: »

the rent will cover the mortgage, it makes things a lot easier

Christ on a stick

.
where/when have i heard this before?

wtf is the obsession with people buying properties to rent, havent ye done enough damage!

Good luck anyway!

Le_Dieux · 15-03-2013 09:40PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Totally, and further more as you say the naysayers have lined up here one after one, going round in circles moaning and crying and scheming as to how they can further contribute to the demise of their beloved country by inciting means of non compliance and other forms of tax evasion. Very patriotic indeed. We have had the starving children mentioned a few times and other tales of woe in this whinge fest. As you say Madsl - time that the definition of poverty was re-examined.

This is a long over due tax that should have been introduced many years ago, and hey, some of those naysayers on here might have thought twice about committing to crazy mortgages when they factored in their annual charge for property tax for services at their door step.

But unfortunately it took a full blown recession to bring it about.

WHO gave you the right to say who is and who isn't patriotic???

And, what about that cnut in Roscommon, who used HIS position to get penalty points dropped? Who is that cnut in Wexford who didn't pay his VAT. Who is that cnut in Kilkenny ( I think) who is pushing US to pay a tax which he refuses to pay on a 2nd property, something I can only dream about. WHERE IS THE PATRIOTISM THERE? And they are ELECTED td's...God help us!!!

ONLY some specimen who either works for the state, OR has a vested interest in gaining from this so-called tax being paid would make such a stupid and rash statement.

MadsL · 15-03-2013 09:43PM

heartseeker wrote: »

Hey am glad you realised in time how these threads work.For your own sanity I advise you to find other ways to hook up with community members and discuss because I worked in the media and financial industries and I can tell that the opinions being expressed here do not speak for the majority.See with a corrupt and rogue state like we have presently your faith in the system is all that is required to selfpreserve it.So the various people that retort your arguments know exactly how ridiculously unfair their comments are but so long as they can keep you going round in circles trying to validate your point and believing it makes a difference is how they convince you to keep believing in it and break your will/spirit.The obvious trolls on here that deflect away from the growing anger and quell you and all of us feel by making you think that your opinion is in the minority when its clearly not and thats why democracy and the European monetary system is on the verge of collapsing.With the vested interest groups involved dont be suprised or naive enough to think that your not being manipulated on this thread right now because you are.That ain't no conspiracy theory its just the reality ...and a small one at that ie.the very least of the deception and underhand tactics the wealthy elete are taking.But keep the faith.I wish you well.And get ready for the change that is coming down the line.All the best.

Change coming down the line?

Would that be the Irish people voting FF back in?

As I have pointed out repeatedly, if you stood by and let the bank guarantees and bailouts of banks and developers simply happen because it was cold that night and X Factor was on, it's a bit late to be talking about the revolution now. That ship appears to have sailed.

Le_Dieux · 15-03-2013 09:45PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are people not sick of hearing the same auld "it's not my fault the country is in the state that its in, I only rented and took on no debt so why should I pay"...play another record because that one is beginning to jump. No tax payer is responsible for Anglos debts but we have been forced to pay them by FF. it's amazing how the political establishment has turned the people against each other while sneaking out the door on its belly.

And lining their dirty filthy bank accounts with overinflated pensions!

tayto lover · 15-03-2013 09:46PM

MadsL wrote: »

Change coming down the line?

Would that be the Irish people voting FF back in?

As I have pointed out repeatedly, if you stood by and let the bank guarantees and bailouts of banks and developers simply happen because it was cold that night and X Factor was on, it's a bit late to be talking about the revolution now. That ship appears to have sailed.

I agree with you BUT that ship was replaced by another ship, an even bigger and darker one which continued along the very same route.

MadsL · 15-03-2013 09:52PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree with you BUT that ship was replaced by another ship, an even bigger and darker one which continued along the very same route.

And the Irish people were still busy watching Simon Cowell as that one sailed.
Meanwhile a 22 year old lines up as a prospective TD to inherit Daddy's seat in the Dáil, the so-called 'independents' prove to be just as corupt and morally bankrupt as the old guard, and FF surge in popularity and SF prove to be capable of holding two diametrically opposed positions on taxation across two jurisdictions.

I think you got the Govt you deserve.

heartseeker · 15-03-2013 09:53PM

MadsL wrote: »

Change coming down the line?

Would that be the Irish people voting FF back in?

As I have pointed out repeatedly, if you stood by and let the bank guarantees and bailouts of banks and developers simply happen because it was cold that night and X Factor was on, it's a bit late to be talking about the revolution now. That ship appears to have sailed.

You must crack yourself up...you wait n see how the people will ignore this tax.Go annoy somebody that values any of your opinions you insufferable arsehole cos nobody has or will have anytime for your kind.:P

tayto lover · 15-03-2013 09:55PM

MadsL wrote: »

And the Irish people were still busy watching Simon Cowell as that one sailed.
Meanwhile a 22 year old lines up as a prospective TD to inherit Daddy's seat in the Dáil, the so-called 'independents' prove to be just as corupt and morally bankrupt as the old guard, and FF surge in popularity and SF prove to be capable of holding two diametrically opposed positions on taxation across two jurisdictions.

I think you got the Govt you deserve.

I know and it's maddening. All I can do is look after my own house.
I actually voted FG last time as they promises change.
Silly me. I didn't realize it was my change they were promising.

Le_Dieux · 15-03-2013 10:02PM

Chinasea wrote: »

You struggle to understand why someone might care about something that doesn't necessarily impinge on their immediate environment.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: (even though it happened to affect the case of the poster that you were ranting at) a concept that just whishes over your head it would appear.

Imagine, get this; there are those of us that care about matters even though they may not effect us, we may not benefit from them, we may never reap an award, but we just simply care about a bigger picture.

dv, that You in disguise?

MadsL · 15-03-2013 10:03PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are people not sick of hearing the same auld "it's not my fault the country is in the state that its in, I only rented and took on no debt so why should I pay"...play another record because that one is beginning to jump. No tax payer is responsible for Anglos debts but we have been forced to pay them by FF. it's amazing how the political establishment has turned the people against each other while sneaking out the door on its belly.

I actively opposed excessive development, often spending my own money to put in the €20 to lodge planning observations, took work holidays days to attend Oral Hearings and campaigned to end planning corruption in Ireland. I also protested the bailout on the streets.

What are you doing at the moment to call your Government to account, or questioning your local council's wasteful expenditure and calling them to account?

heartseeker wrote: »

You must crack yourself up...you wait n see how the people will ignore this tax.

People will ignore the tax? Will they not be going to work in protest so that Revenue cannot deduct it from their wages? Will they refuse their pension so that it cannot be taken from their payment?

People will do what they always do in Ireland, look after themselves, try to dodge any tax they can and pat themselves on the back, and then vote as they have always voted.

I'll let the mods deal with the rest of your post.

Le_Dieux · 15-03-2013 10:15PM

lazygal wrote: »

I'm a homeowner in Ireland and I'm in favour of this tax. It should have been introduced years ago.

And even though I'm in negative equity, I'd love an increase in repossessions. It'll further deflate the property market meaning me and my husband will be able to afford to buy another property that's larger and rent our current home. And pay tax on both, of course.

You MUST be a troll. Who in their right mind wants an increase in repossessions? You are in NE, yet you want to buy bigger?

FFS, get real, please!!!

Le_Dieux · 15-03-2013 11:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I know and it's maddening. All I can do is look after my own house.
I actually voted FG last time as they promises change.
Silly me. I didn't realize it was my change they were promising.

I'd never vote FG. They were in power in the 80's and taxed everything they could, only they went one step too far, and got kicked out.

Can see the same happening all over again. Only problem then is....who to vote for. For me, all I know is it will NOT be fg, and most certainly NOT labour, as long as gilmore is leader.

Le_Dieux · 15-03-2013 11:11PM

MadsL wrote: »

I actively opposed excessive development, often spending my own money to put in the €20 to lodge planning observations, took work holidays days to attend Oral Hearings and campaigned to end planning corruption in Ireland. I also protested the bailout on the streets.

What are you doing at the moment to call your Government to account, or questioning your local council's wasteful expenditure and calling them to account?

People will ignore the tax? Will they not be going to work in protest so that Revenue cannot deduct it from their wages? Will they refuse their pension so that it cannot be taken from their payment?

People will do what they always do in Ireland, look after themselves, try to dodge any tax they can and pat themselves on the back, and then vote as they have always voted.

I'll let the mods deal with the rest of your post.

Ahem, isn't that EXACTLY what the bunch we have masquerading as a government are doing? They do NOT care 2 f's about us, the 'commoner' as long as they get their hyperinflated salaries, perks, and pensions.

Sure I can only laugh at the bould Ming. Why would he want to be re-elected? He'll have his pension by the time for the next elections come along, and then can smoke whatever he likes. *thought* Perhaps, he might even invest in a bloody bluetooth:rolleyes:

Bullseye1 · 15-03-2013 11:16PM

I've done my bit and continue to do my bit to take politicians to task. We are not all inside watching TV while the country is going down the drain. Then again some of us are still in the country contributing taxes to get us out of the mess so that those who have emigrated have somewhere to come back to.

It's time you get rid of that chip on your shoulder, you sound quite bitter and resentful of people who bought their homes like they are responsible for you losing your job and having to emigrate.

MadsL wrote: »

I actively opposed excessive development, often spending my own money to put in the €20 to lodge planning observations, took work holidays days to attend Oral Hearings and campaigned to end planning corruption in Ireland. I also protested the bailout on the streets.

What are you doing at the moment to call your Government to account, or questioning your local council's wasteful expenditure and calling them to account?

People will ignore the tax? Will they not be going to work in protest so that Revenue cannot deduct it from their wages? Will they refuse their pension so that it cannot be taken from their payment?

People will do what they always do in Ireland, look after themselves, try to dodge any tax they can and pat themselves on the back, and then vote as they have always voted.

I'll let the mods deal with the rest of your post.

MadsL · 15-03-2013 11:26PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I've done my bit and continue to do my bit to take politicians to task. We are not all inside watching TV while the country is going down the drain.

Really? Because it comes across that you are pointing the finger at those who had some sense not to get involved in the property madness as somehow to blame. Care to explain?

Then again some of us are still in the country contributing taxes to get us out of the mess so that those who have emigrated have somewhere to come back to.

I see, back to resenting those who emigrate. You think that most of them emigrated by choice? Be thankful you have a job, how much tax do you think I would have paid on the dole?

It's time you get rid of that chip on your shoulder, you sound quite bitter and resentful of people who bought their homes like they are responsible for you losing your job and having to emigrate.

What was the cause of the recession if not the property bubble and subsequent crash? If not the only cause the property bubble deepened it massively. Neither my wife nor I worked in anything construction or property related. Would you say that the frenzy to buy overvalued property and crash didn't contribute to us being unemployed?

When did you buy, out of interest?

Bullseye1 · 15-03-2013 11:36PM

Unlike you I am not interested in divulging my laundry in public . I don't for one second resent anyone who has emigrated. I am angry that you and many others have had to emigrate because of poor governance, cowboy bankers and gangster developers.

I'd like you to explain how I have attributed any blame to those who rented property? This is utter lies.

I'll give you some info though I'm self employed and have been since leaving university. I've never relied on anyone to put food on my table but myself. And I'm approximately half way through paying off my mortgage.

And I hope in 3-5 years time there will be an opportunity for those who have emigrated and who want to to come home.

It's quite sad that people have turned against each other based on whether they owned a house or not. Maybe it was the plan of the banks and government to turn us against each other. Begrudgary just doesn't sit with me. I'm all for people being successful.

Bruthal · 15-03-2013 11:50PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Maybe it was the plan of the banks and government to turn us against each other.

Divide and then conquer.

MadsL · 15-03-2013 11:50PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Unlike you I am not interested in divulging my laundry in public . I don't for one second resent anyone who has emigrated. I am angry that you and many others have had to emigrate because of poor governance, cowboy bankers and gangster developers.

And yet you just took a swipe at me for having emigrated and not paying tax? "some of us are still in the country contributing taxes "

I'd like you to explain how I have attributed any blame to those who rented property? This is utter lies.

Lies you say?

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Are people not sick of hearing the same auld "it's not my fault the country is in the state that its in, I only rented and took on no debt so why should I pay"...play another record because that one is beginning to jump.

And I hope in 3-5 years time there will be an opportunity for those who have emigrated and who want to to come home.

Will you have all paid off the debt I had no part in creating by then?

It's quite sad that people have turned against each other based on whether they owned a house or not.

They are not. The anger of those who stayed out of it is directed at those who own property and then claim they are 'the poor' or that it wasn't their fault that the market crashed after they aid super inflated prices on borrowed money, or whine that they want 'their' bailout.

Just to note that I didn't get a bailout for my substantial investment losses in the dotcom age, but people want protection from property losses.

Maybe it was the plan of the banks and government to turn us against each other.

CT Forum >>>>>>>>>

Begrudgary just doesn't sit with me. I'm all for people being successful.

I'm not begrudging anyone. The consequences of many people's poor financial decisions has pushed me halfway round the world though. You do appreciate I might have an opinion on people now wanting to escape taxes as they made previously poor decisions and how that doesn't sit that well with me.

Bullseye1 · 15-03-2013 11:57PM

How is my bolded quote attributing blame for our problems on those who rented? It is commentary on people who continuously blame those who have bought for the problem by those who did not buy. Maybe you should read it again.

Glad you have absolved yourself of any blame and proved my commentary correct.

Your the one taking swipes at people who you don't know and assume have not been out demonstrating. Your full of assumptions. Quite frankly it's pointless discussing anything with you because of the massive chip on your shoulder. Adios.

Bruthal · 16-03-2013 12:04AM

MadsL wrote: »

Just to note that I didn't get a bailout for my substantial investment losses in the dotcom age

You do appreciate I might have an opinion on people now wanting to escape taxes as they made previously poor decisions and how that doesn't sit that well with me.

Yea

MadsL · 16-03-2013 12:05AM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How is my bolded quote attributing blame for our problems on those who rented? It is commentary on people who continuously blame those who have bought for the problem by those who did not buy. Maybe you should read it again.

Perhaps you can explain to me how those who did not buy are at fault? If you are complaining that those attribute the fault to those whose bought, then they must also be at fault, please explain how they contributed.

Your the one taking swipes at people who you don't know and assume have not been out demonstrating. Your full of assumptions. Quite frankly it's pointless discussing anything with you because of the massive chip on your shoulder. Adios.

I know how many were out demonstrating, because I was there and it was a very very small number. Which demonstration did you attend?

As to chips on shoulders, here is a further attack on the emigrants you claim to have sympathy for. I guess you don't feel emigrants should have any opinions.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Don't worry you guys are next with a residential tax. You guys need to pay for the library and public lighting too. Oh wait your not even living here. Must be great preaching the need to get our country out of a hole while not contributing to the task.

Bullseye1 · 16-03-2013 12:30AM

Let me put his in very simple English for you because you have a tendency of either a misinterpret or are deliberating being disingenuous.

1. I do not attribute any of the blame on the property bubble on renters.
2. My commentary is on those who continually lay the blame on those who bought properties for their ills. "I didn't buy, I am not responsible for the mess we are in, I didn't gamble...etc". The debt we have us two fold. (A) The banking debt which was placed on the shoulders of the electorate by Brian Lenahin NAND Brian Cowen when they gave the bank garauntee and privatised the banks. (B) the money which has had to be borrowed by government for the day to day running of the public sector, the deficit.

Neither of these two debts are the fault of the tax payer. Those of us who bought properties are not responsible for your lose of job or your need to emigrate.

3. I neither resent or begrudge anyone who has emigrated.
4. I make no apologies for my contributing to getting us out of the hole we are in. You can take that you however you like.
5. Not everyone who has emigrated has a chip on their shoulder. I emigrated in the late 90's and enjoyed my experience. I hear and read of people who are happy with their decision. Sure they may miss home but there is opportunity of a better life at this moment in time.

It's understandable that your angry, anger can be a positive. Just lose the chip.

I demonstrated in my local town and I continue to engage with local politicians.

MadsL wrote: »

Perhaps you can explain to me how those who did not buy are at fault? If you are complaining that those attribute the fault to those whose bought, then they must also be at fault, please explain how they contributed.

I know how many were out demonstrating, because I was there and it was a very very small number. Which demonstration did you attend?

As to chips on shoulders, here is a further attack on the emigrants you claim to have sympathy for. I guess you don't feel emigrants should have any opinions.

darkhorse · 16-03-2013 12:44AM

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, I wanted a place that me and my wife, and maybe any kids that we might have, could call our own.

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not your "own" until one glorious day when the bank hand you the deeds after your last payment.

Right, MadsL, I want you to think very carefully, before you answer my next question. Look at your above statement, and tell me, if the home/property is not my "own" until that glorious day, explain to me, why, for the purpose of this tax, am I the one that has to pay, instead of the bill shared with the entity who owns the largest share

MadsL · 16-03-2013 12:58AM

darkhorse wrote: »

MadsL wrote: »

But it is not your "own" until one glorious day when the bank hand you the deeds after your last payment.

Right, MadsL, I want you to think very carefully, before you answer my next question. Look at your above statement, and tell me, if the home/property is not my "own" until that glorious day, explain to me, why, for the purpose of this tax, am I the one that has to pay, instead of the bill shared with the entity who owns the largest share

I don't need to think carefully, property taxes tax the amenity of the property. The bank has no amenity of the property unless you want to sublet it to them for the annual BBQ. You do 'own' the property legally, except that you have given that over in security to the bank in exchange for the mortgage cash to pay the previous owner.

Not really hard to figure out.

darkhorse · 16-03-2013 01:05AM

lazygal wrote: »

I'm a homeowner in Ireland and I'm in favour of this tax. It should have been introduced years ago.

And even though I'm in negative equity, I'd love an increase in repossessions. It'll further deflate the property market meaning me and my husband will be able to afford to buy another property that's larger and rent our current home. And pay tax on both, of course.

A true patriot.

MadsL · 16-03-2013 01:08AM

darkhorse wrote: »

A true patriot.

When did Ireland become the Glorious Socialist People's Republic of Irelandski?

You may not like the sentiment, but I believe Ireland still permits capitalism, without people being called a traitor to the Socialist Revolution.

darkhorse · 16-03-2013 01:28AM

username123 wrote: »

With that Im leaving this thread.

Why should you leave the thread. You're a much better contributor than a lot of them on here.

revenue issues threat to every homeowner in the country.

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