Hospital sought court order to force C Section

LittleBook wrote: »

FFS, I know "every pregnancy is different" and we have a two-tier health system here, but how can there be such differences in such a basic and important health care requirement?! Mind ... boggled! :mad:

Totally depends on the resources in the hospital and how many women they have to deal with on a day to day and how over worked the staff are.

Even within one hospital consultants can differ. I specifically returned to mine because she's totally open to discussing all delivery options and supporting my preferences. Others in the same hospital have very different attitudes.

meeeeh wrote: »

Some women go into it with very unrealistic expectations. Birth is messy and anything but pleasant anyway.

eviltwin wrote: »

How many posters here have had personal experience of the maternity system in this country? I think a lot of people believe the hype that its the "best in the world". This story is a very extreme one so we have heard about it but every day there are little examples of lousy treatment of women in maternity pre and post natal.

I've had three pregnancies. I could tell you (nearly down to the hour) when each of them was conceived. Some woman actually DO know their bodies better than hospitals, especially those hospitals that give less than the most the most basic level of care.

My 1st pregnancy I went private, had amazing ante-natal care, at least 5 scans, had one at every consultant appointment. A very long labour, which I was forced to endure in a 4 bed room, shared with 3 women and a baby : one in 3rd trimester with twins in for monitoring, one lady in - her baby with her, because she suffered side-effects from her epidural (migraines, Im sure she was delighted to be sharing a room with a labouring woman), and I cant recall why the other lady was there. I was refused gas and air, and would only be moved into a delivery suite if I was getting an epidural. I had wanted a natural birth, but was essentially forced to have an epidural just to get into a delivery suite and out of the shared room. My consultant was fantastic, some of the nurses and midwives were fantastic, one was an out and out b*tch.

2nd baby I decided to go public. Had ONE scan at 6 and a half weeks because I had some early bleeding. Was refused any further scans, but had no problems during the pregnancy. Labour was wonderful, had a fantastic midwife, used tens machine, exercise ball, eventually gas and air, really lovely calm relaxed labour - very positive experience. Until shift changed 30 minutes before push time and I got an completely incompetent absolute battleaxe for a midwife. SHe was shouting at me to push push push, I knew (and I told her) I wasn't ready to push, I could feel my flesh tearing, but she laughed at me and said I absolutely had to push now - so I did.
I suffered 3rd degree tears, spent over an hour in theatre being stitched up, had to have a spinal block, couldn't pee without crying for over a week and I wont even begin to tell you about other toilet functions. My scar goes further internally than I can feel and I will NEVER be the same again. That bitch came to apologise the next day, said she was 'sure' I wasn't tearing. What a pity she didn't LISTEN to the mother in front of crying that she could FEEL her flesh and some muscles ripping apart. My son has a much larger than average head circumference. Might have been picked up on if I had had more that that 6 week scan.

Also wouldn't it be lovely, for the sake of an hour, I was able to keep my original lovely midwife instead of getting a whole new woman who know NOTHING about me or my very reasonable birthing expectations

Baby number 3 was miraculously conceived, and we went privately, had an elective c-section. COnsultant was fantastic, he was head of Ob/Gyn, and I think they were all still terrified I might sue, so I was treated very very well, and nothing was refused me, I was consulted on every decision.

Moral of my VERY long storey: I believe that the public maternity system is an absolute shambles, level of care is minimal, you are at their mercy and mercy is not a virtue they are well endowed with.
Private Maternal care is much much much better, you are treated with respect and YOUR OPINIONS are listened to.

The level and standard of care differs so greatly from hospital to hospital and region to region. I get very cross at people who dare to say that the maternity system is good enough, some people will have godd experience, but many many women have nightmare experiences.

On the OT, as I said at the start, I was entirely certain of all my due dates, there was absolutely no chance of error on my part. If the hospital told me my dates were wrong and tried to section me 2 weeks early, they would find me VERY resistent.

xLexie wrote: »

People comparing Irish care towards US care, don't you pay crazy money/health insurance premiums in the US? Obviously the standard of care will be higher.

Health insurance here has gotten crazy, increases every few months, but the staff and the facilities are exactly the same as going private unless you are willing to go beyond the cover of your health insurance and go to the likes of Mount Carmel.

But if you can afford private health insurance or have the type of job which pays it for you, you may be able to afford to sue if something goes wrong so I really think that factors in how you are treated.

I went public the first time and semi private the second.

lazygal wrote: »

Not always true. We paid to go privately in Ireland but the experience of a friend in a semi public system in California was a world away from mine from conception to delivery.

I saw some stats before and cost of healthcare per patient in US is crazy in comparison to Europe. Most personal bankrupcies are at least partly due to medical bills. It's a great system if you have money. Also infant and maternal mortality rates in US are quite a bit higher. Uk has also higher rates, regardless what method is used. Overall stats are not that great because the standard inside countries isn't uniformal but you have to be careful not to compare above average in one country to average in another. This is a general point but it always bafles me how UK and US are often used as a benchmark when they are deeply unequal, unfair and very often disfunctional societies.

@neyite
I needed D&c after birth and I was admitted on Friday night and got out on Wednesday. First miscarriage they didn't even bother with a scan because it was too urgent and when I miss carried the second time I got the scan next morning and procedure in the afternoon. The after birth dnc was by far most unpleasant experience so I actually dont believe there is much of an agenda behind it. It strikes me that Galway hospital is either very busy or not very well organized.

meeeeh wrote: »

Ok this is getting crazy. Would you give birth just with three time mother present? Would you give birth just with midwife present?

The same attitude endangers thousand or millions of people and refuse vaccination of their children because some fruitcake told them they don't need it. I'm not saying there are not sub par medical practitioners and practices but there is a reason why medical study is so long and why hospitals don't employ three time mothers.

Both my children were born with just a midwife present.

I do think its important to listen to other mothers just to get their experiences. There were a lot of things I didn't know I could ask for/refuse only that after I was told by other mums I could have. Hospitals don't volunteer this information so sometimes you have to rely on people who have been through the system to tell you things you might not be aware of.

meeeeh wrote: »

I think there is nothing wrong with getting information and also listening to yourself and your feelings but at one stage you do have to trust somebody who has medical knowledge. There will be always a percentage of professional mistakes but there is very little alternative except demand better standards.

This. Better standards of care. In each and every individual case across all hospitals regardless of private/public/midwives clinic. That every woman can go into her pregnancy KNOWING that she will be taken care of to highest standard possible, and with the understanding that every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different. Most women know their bodies and SHOULD be listened to when it comes to their healthcare. RESPECT for these women as opposed to the routine dismissal of our thoughts/plans.

Absolutely, Consultants/Doctors/midwives have a very important place in all this, but you say there that at one stage that we have to TRUST somebody who has medical knowledge - Im sorry though, trust is earned. The system is going to have to improve its track record significantly before it can gain my trust again. Until then neither my medical care nor that of my children will be left in the hands of our public health system.

In some cases it's pretty clear that what the mother wants is not good enough for the child, we've had a court order come down as soon as this baby is born it becomes award of the court and it's mother will not be it's legal guardian.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hiv-mum-ordered-to-allow-care-for-baby-after-birth-26041916.html

The issues around due dated and C sections is not as clear cut as above and drs do differ.

http://humanrights.ie/gender-sexuality-and-the-law/caesarean-section-refusal-in-ireland/

There is due to be an article about the High Court case and consent in tomorrow's Examiner by Victoria White, I am sure it will be interesting.

Neyite wrote: »

I was not given routine antibiotics during my c-section in may 2012. .

I gave birth at the same time by section and no antibiotics were given during or post surgery.

lazygal wrote: »

Actually, there's evidence of overuse of antibiotics AFAIK. I'd rather take them if and when they are medically needed, not as a preventative measure.

My bf's mother stockpiles them and uses them to medicate anything without seeing GP. I know nothing about how needed they are at c sections but I would be worried about overuse because they could be a lot less effective when you really need them.