Scrap the Irish Language Commissioner

Iwasfrozen · 13-03-2013 12:14AM

hfallada wrote: »

I think the most ridiculous thing was the fact that they wanted Irish on the Dublin bus signs. Why??? English is spoken by like 99% of dubliners

What you have to understand when you're dealing with Gaelgeoirs is they don't care about practicality or efficiency of money. They have an entitlement mindset and believe those entitlements should be fulfilled regardless of the cost to other people. Note these made up minority language entitlements only apply to Irish because this is Ireland and apparently that matters.

Skid X · 13-03-2013 12:15AM

taytothief wrote: »

That's cool, you get up and have your English cereal, drive to work in your Japanese or German car, work for your American or English employers, pick up your English food in your English supermarket on the way home, and watch recycled American programmes or maybe some American films for the evening. You're Irish though, right?

Yeah, lets all stick to the horse and cart until a decent Irish Car is on the market at an affordable price.

Where did you get your Computer from, by the way? I hope it's not one of them foreign muck machines.

taytothief · 13-03-2013 12:25AM

Skid X wrote: »

Where did you get your Computer from, by the way? I hope it's not one of them foreign muck machines.

American, made in China.

SEPT 23 1989 · 13-03-2013 12:45AM

There are people all over the country feeding themselves in soup kitchens in the teeth of the worst economic depression in the history of the state and these elitist "patriots" waste my money on their little hobbie

Stained Class · 13-03-2013 01:02AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

There are people all over the country feeding themselves in soup kitchens in the teeth of the worst economic depression in the history of the state and these elitist "patriots" waste my money on their little hobbie

This + 10000000000000000000000000

An Coilean · 13-03-2013 01:31AM

Skid X wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0312/376254-garda-irish-language/

What's the Irish for 'Stop acting like a Gob****e and answer the Garda in English'?

Stupid pointless waste of resources.

Céard é an Béarla ar 'Éirí as do cuid seafóid agus lig daoine a dteanga fhéin a labhairt'?

vincit qui se vincit · 13-03-2013 01:36AM

The hatred from the anti-Irish crowd here brings chip-on-shoulder underclass rantings to another level. It's simply a thread for ranting and raving against something, anything, that doesn't fit into their culturally intolerant perception of Ireland.

It's extraordinary. An irrational, fanatical and zealous mix of mob rule and cultural fascism which amounts to at least an insistence that Irish speaking taxpayers should be forced to accept English in their dealings with the Irish state which they help finance.

If the level of unadulterated hatred expressed here against Irish speakers were expressed against Blacks or another group, the thread would have been closed long ago and bans handed out. Personally, I'd favour current 'Incitement to Hatred' legislation being extended to include people who produce such degrading, dehumanising bile against Irish speakers who merely assert their rights to equal treatment under Irish and international law as an indigenous linguistic community in Ireland. It's not long ago since Irish speakers were imprisoned for refusing to finance English language radio and TV by a state which refused to provide them with Irish language stations.

As for waste of money, I'm not happy about my taxes financing the back roads, footpaths, parks and so on ad infinitum which the anti-Irish people here walk on and from which I get no benefit. I'll go further, I believe all my taxes were unjustly taken from me if they were spent on the education of people who offer little but hatred and far right ideas about a language which I'm educated enough to love. Imagine that, my taxes going towards something I derive no benefit from. I must rant incessantly about that in all sorts of ways and bring out my miserable, pathetic life upon some scapegoat for my own failings ....

kowloon · 13-03-2013 01:55AM

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

The hatred from the anti-Irish crowd here brings chip-on-shoulder underclass rantings to another level. It's simply a thread for ranting and raving against something, anything, that doesn't fit into their culturally intolerant perception of Ireland.

People don't want to learn a language that they don't feel is part of their culture. You think they're culturally intolerant?

Think about this for a while.

Mick ah · 13-03-2013 02:02AM

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

As for waste of money, I'm not happy about my taxes financing the back roads, footpaths, parks and so on ad infinitum which the anti-Irish people here walk on and from which I get no benefit. I'll go further, I believe all my taxes were unjustly taken from me if they were spent on the education of people who offer little but hatred and far right ideas about a language which I'm educated enough to love. Imagine that, my taxes going towards something I derive no benefit from. I must rant incessantly about that in all sorts of ways and bring out my miserable, pathetic life upon some scapegoat for my own failings ....

hmm,

You know what I'd be totally in favour of?

How about we let all of the irish speaking tax payers pay for the existence of the language, and nothing else. Quite simply, calculate how much it costs to keep it going, and take the money from the people that use it.

And lets stop taking money from english speaking tax payers, to pay for irish. Just let them pay for everything else in the country.

I'm sure that you'd find that without english speaking tax payers subsidising the existence of the language it would have long ceased to exist.

Imagine, no more kids going to the gaeltacht every summer, no more grants (from english speaking pockets) to gaeltacht areas. A massive reduction in the amount of irish teachers (why would english speaking areas pay for such a luxury if they didn't have to)

Bye bye TG4, bye bye, seachtain na gaeilge etc.

Fúcking hell, english speaking tax payers could probably bail out another bank with all the money they'd save

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-03-2013 02:07AM

Skid X wrote: »

What's the Irish for 'Stop acting like a Gob****e and answer the Garda in English'?

An Coilean wrote: »

Céard é an Béarla ar 'Éirí as do cuid seafóid agus lig daoine a dteanga fhéin a labhairt'?

No it isn't,...!

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

The hatred from the anti-Irish crowd here brings chip-on-shoulder underclass rantings to another level. It's simply a thread for ranting and raving against something, anything, that doesn't fit into their culturally intolerant perception of Ireland.

No it isn't because there isn't any in this thread. Stop being paranoid. Disagreeing wiht someone and wanting the resources to be reappropraited does nto equate to "hatred from the anti-Irish" crowd.

It's extraordinary. An irrational,

You got that right.

fanatical and zealous mix of mob rule and cultural fascism which amounts to at least an insistence that Irish speaking taxpayers should be forced to accept English in their dealings with the Irish state which they help finance.

If the level of unadulterated hatred expressed here against Irish speakers were expressed against Blacks or another group, the thread would have been closed long ago and bans handed out. Personally, I'd favour current 'Incitement to Hatred' legislation being extended to include people who produce such degrading, dehumanising bile against Irish speakers who merely assert their rights to equal treatment under Irish and international law as an indigenous linguistic community in Ireland. It's not long ago since Irish speakers were imprisoned for refusing to finance English language radio and TV by a state which refused to provide them with Irish language stations.

As for waste of money, I'm not happy about my taxes financing the back roads, footpaths, parks and so on ad infinitum which the anti-Irish people here walk on and from which I get no benefit. I'll go further, I believe all my taxes were unjustly taken from me if they were spent on the education of people who offer little but hatred and far right ideas about a language which I'm educated enough to love. Imagine that, my taxes going towards something I derive no benefit from. I must rant incessantly about that in all sorts of ways and bring out my miserable, pathetic life upon some scapegoat for my own failings ....

And not one word reference to the Commissoner, the Guards or this thread in general.

Iwasfrozen · 13-03-2013 02:14AM

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

The hatred from the anti-Irish crowd here brings chip-on-shoulder underclass rantings to another level. It's simply a thread for ranting and raving against something, anything, that doesn't fit into their culturally intolerant perception of Ireland.

It's extraordinary. An irrational, fanatical and zealous mix of mob rule and cultural fascism which amounts to at least an insistence that Irish speaking taxpayers should be forced to accept English in their dealings with the Irish state which they help finance.

If the level of unadulterated hatred expressed here against Irish speakers were expressed against Blacks or another group, the thread would have been closed long ago and bans handed out. Personally, I'd favour current 'Incitement to Hatred' legislation being extended to include people who produce such degrading, dehumanising bile against Irish speakers who merely assert their rights to equal treatment under Irish and international law as an indigenous linguistic community in Ireland. It's not long ago since Irish speakers were imprisoned for refusing to finance English language radio and TV by a state which refused to provide them with Irish language stations.

As for waste of money, I'm not happy about my taxes financing the back roads, footpaths, parks and so on ad infinitum which the anti-Irish people here walk on and from which I get no benefit. I'll go further, I believe all my taxes were unjustly taken from me if they were spent on the education of people who offer little but hatred and far right ideas about a language which I'm educated enough to love. Imagine that, my taxes going towards something I derive no benefit from. I must rant incessantly about that in all sorts of ways and bring out my miserable, pathetic life upon some scapegoat for my own failings ....

On the contrary my friend. We're not the ones with with a culturally narrow definition of "gaelic" Ireland. That dubious little honour lies with you and your gaelgeoir pals. The Ireland I want to see is one that respects all minority languages as equal. You want to force one particular minority language on the majority because the name of that language is Irish. Which is apparently supposed to mean something though don't ask me what.

It's funny you mention unfulfilled lives but I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did if I hadn't side tracked Irish in favour of more important subjects in school.

Prundlebox · 13-03-2013 02:18AM

taytothief wrote: »

American, made in China.

Designed by Apple in California

They're not even putting the "made in china" on the label these days because they're ashamed of it.

Boombastic · 13-03-2013 02:28AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

On the contrary my friend. We're not the ones with with a culturally narrow definition of "gaelic" Ireland. That dubious little honour lies with you and your gaelgeoir pals. The Ireland I want to see is one that respects all minority languages as equal. You want to force one particular minority language on the majority because the name of that language is Irish. Which is apparently supposed to mean something though don't ask me what.

It's funny you mention unfulfilled lives but I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did if I hadn't side tracked Irish in favour of more important subjects in school.

But you won't get a grant or an extra allowance for that

Iwasfrozen · 13-03-2013 02:33AM

Boombastic wrote: »

But you won't get a grant or an extra allowance for that

Of course silly me, everyone knows you're anti Irish if you don't screw the country out of as much money as possible. ;-)

ZeitgeistGlee · 13-03-2013 02:36AM

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

The hatred from the anti-Irish crowd here brings chip-on-shoulder underclass rantings to another level. It's simply a thread for ranting and raving against something, anything, that doesn't fit into their culturally intolerant perception of Ireland.

It's extraordinary. An irrational, fanatical and zealous mix of mob rule and cultural fascism which amounts to at least an insistence that Irish speaking taxpayers should be forced to accept English in their dealings with the Irish state which they help finance.

If the level of unadulterated hatred expressed here against Irish speakers were expressed against Blacks or another group, the thread would have been closed long ago and bans handed out. Personally, I'd favour current 'Incitement to Hatred' legislation being extended to include people who produce such degrading, dehumanising bile against Irish speakers who merely assert their rights to equal treatment under Irish and international law as an indigenous linguistic community in Ireland. It's not long ago since Irish speakers were imprisoned for refusing to finance English language radio and TV by a state which refused to provide them with Irish language stations.

As for waste of money, I'm not happy about my taxes financing the back roads, footpaths, parks and so on ad infinitum which the anti-Irish people here walk on and from which I get no benefit. I'll go further, I believe all my taxes were unjustly taken from me if they were spent on the education of people who offer little but hatred and far right ideas about a language which I'm educated enough to love. Imagine that, my taxes going towards something I derive no benefit from. I must rant incessantly about that in all sorts of ways and bring out my miserable, pathetic life upon some scapegoat for my own failings ....

Aside from wild rhetoric do you have anything actually useful to contribute to the discussion other than your overwhelming sense of entitlement?

I do so love the way so many Irish speakers seem convinced that a dislike of the language is somehow rooted in ignorance and colonial kowtowing, and if we were only wise and educated enough that we'd appreciate Irish to the same fanatic extent they do.

ZeitgeistGlee · 13-03-2013 02:47AM

Mick ah wrote: »

hmm,

You know what I'd be totally in favour of?

How about we let all of the irish speaking tax payers pay for the existence of the language, and nothing else. Quite simply, calculate how much it costs to keep it going, and take the money from the people that use it.

And lets stop taking money from english speaking tax payers, to pay for irish. Just let them pay for everything else in the country.

I'm sure that you'd find that without english speaking tax payers subsidising the existence of the language it would have long ceased to exist.

Imagine, no more kids going to the gaeltacht every summer, no more grants (from english speaking pockets) to gaeltacht areas. A massive reduction in the amount of irish teachers (why would english speaking areas pay for such a luxury if they didn't have to)

Bye bye TG4, bye bye, seachtain na gaeilge etc.

Fúcking hell, english speaking tax payers could probably bail out another bank with all the money they'd save

No, no, no we couldn't do that. I mean force the Irish speakers to actually proportionally contribute to the upkeep of the language they're so desperate to force on the rest of us from infancy to adulthood? Whatever's next? Giving children the option to completely drop Irish at Junior or Leaving Cert level because it serves no practical purpose outside of a fraction of Third Degree courses? Think of all those poor Irish teachers you'd be forcing to learn relevant modern subjects.

It's not like it's the worst recession to hit the country in national history and we're being forced to cut essential frontline services in the public sector. The Irish language is clearly more deserving of survival and proliferation than sick children.

guppy · 13-03-2013 02:48AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

On the contrary my friend. We're not the ones with with a culturally narrow definition of "gaelic" Ireland. That dubious little honour lies with you and your gaelgeoir pals. The Ireland I want to see is one that respects all minority languages as equal. You want to force one particular minority language on the majority because the name of that language is Irish. Which is apparently supposed to mean something though don't ask me what.

It's funny you mention unfulfilled lives but I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did if I hadn't side tracked Irish in favour of more important subjects in school.

Oh if only he/her knew just how wasted their tax money was in translating every government document from English to Irish, the vitriol would be aimed in the right direction!

I work in the public sector, every document needs to be translated to Irish. None of this is free, and so far, we've had 3 documents requested in Irish, since the legislation came in. Value for your taxes? Eh, no. Money for the translation companies? Eh, yeah.

I have no personal gripe against the Irish language. I just don't think that the curriculum promotes it. Kids go to school and instead of being taught a foreign language, which it is to the majority of Irish children, it's taught as though they already know it. That to me is the biggest mistake, and is the reason that most of us have better French/German/Spanish after 5 years than Irish after 13+ years.

Smocha · 13-03-2013 03:17AM

Like Philosophy and pottery, one should study Irish in old age, when one can afford ornamental hobbies.

PhlegmyMoses · 13-03-2013 03:51AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Well, considering they're very publicly tryign to cut back Gardai salaries, the government aren't going to be stumping up much more for the idea in question, but...

... it's not how much is being spent that people have a problem with, it's how it's being spent.

If we have the money to train Gardai to speak Irish, why do we not have the money to keep 95 gardai stations open?

I was actually responding to the OP, who wants to scrap the language commissioner in this era of "belt tightening". Again, it's a minor target really, if your idea is to save some cash to pay off our debt. I don't believe the Gardaí should be forced to speak Irish but there should be a few trained to cater for Gaeltacht areas.

Wibbs · 13-03-2013 09:52AM

anncoates wrote: »

I was born in England and it always makes me sad that so many people here are so dismissive of the native language of their country

That's the thing AC, most of us don't see it as the native language of the country. Even those and there would be many who do see it as something valuable and "native" don't bother learning it.

Fair enough if people don't have an interest but the sheer hatred for it is baffling.

I'd say it's more frustration AC. Frustration at those who appear to be telling the rest of us how to be Irish and/or we're not as Irish as they are. There can also be a tremendous snobbishness to them.

Below a good example of that type of thing;

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

The hatred from the anti-Irish crowd here brings chip-on-shoulder underclass rantings to another level.

"Underclass" Ohhh boy. Interesting how things can change mind you. 100 years ago it was the Irish speakers who would have been considered the narrow minded "bogger underclass". Maybe it's payback time for some of them? Meh I figure those who called Irish speakers the underclass back then were just as daft and insecure as those who pull the reverse BS today. It says far more about them than it does the object of their ire.

It's simply a thread for ranting and raving against something, anything, that doesn't fit into their culturally intolerant perception of Ireland.

Irony, sweet irony. Now doubt "is fear Gaeilge briste na Bearla cliste" is part of your repertoire too(apologies to native speakers, my quote is likely more briste than cliste

).

It's extraordinary. An irrational, fanatical and zealous mix of mob rule and cultural fascism which amounts to at least an insistence that Irish speaking taxpayers should be forced to accept English in their dealings with the Irish state which they help finance.

Nice bit of entitlement there.

If the level of unadulterated hatred expressed here against Irish speakers were expressed against Blacks or another group, the thread would have been closed long ago and bans handed out. Personally, I'd favour current 'Incitement to Hatred' legislation being extended to include people who produce such degrading, dehumanising bile against Irish speakers who merely assert their rights to equal treatment under Irish and international law as an indigenous linguistic community in Ireland.

"Unadulterated hatred", "dehumanising bile" and "'Incitement to Hatred"? :pac: Good God man dial back the hyperbole there. Given your minority position is already protected by law and promoted by the state, I hardly think you can talk of being oppressed.

who the fug · 13-03-2013 10:02AM

anncoates wrote: »

'benign coercion'

I just love this phrase, right up their with The Emergency and The Troubles

As there is no political will to reform the way it is taught, Irish is in a loop with no exit

Skid X · 13-03-2013 10:28AM

An Coilean wrote: »

Céard é an Béarla ar 'Éirí as do cuid seafóid agus lig daoine a dteanga fhéin a labhairt'?

I wouldn't have a clue, mate.

My family hasn't spoken Irish in the best part of 200 years - it isn't 'my' language.

It means no more to me than whatever language my Viking Ancestors spoke.

gobnaitolunacy · 13-03-2013 10:38AM

Skid X wrote: »

I wouldn't have a clue, mate.

My family hasn't spoken Irish in the best part of 200 years - it isn't 'my' language.

It means no more to me than whatever language my Viking Ancestors spoke.

The rabid Gaelgoirs display their cultural and linguistic superiority that way. They expect all sorts of stuff to be translated into Irish (do they even read all the government docs translated for their benefit, I wonder?) but there's no helpful translation provided in English...just like the road signage.
Gaeltacht status is just a scam to draw down grants that an adjoining area of non-Gaeltacht status has no access to.

Here's an example of how tourists are 'doing fine' with Irish-only signage.
http://www.bostonirish.com/node/13702

monkeypants · 13-03-2013 10:49AM

vincit qui se vincit wrote: »

It's not long ago since Irish speakers were imprisoned for refusing to finance English language radio and TV by a state which refused to provide them with Irish language stations.

Does this translate into "they refused to buy a TV licence"? If so, and they didn't want to finance the non-Irish language stations, why did they need a TV? Was it to watch the English language radio and TV?

Chips Lovell · 13-03-2013 11:26AM

Dionysius2 wrote: »

Imagine being taught our native tongue for 9 years in the best learning years of your life and not being able to ask two simple playschool questions at the end of that.....what is your name ?......what is your address ?
Says an awful lot about our intelligence, eh ?

Meanwhile Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and what have you come here in droves.....never had English as a subject at any stage in school in the vast majority of cases yet can muster enough English to work and live and function comfortably and with no bitching whatsoever about any one else's language. Now what does that say about us ? I know there's a ton load of blame for such a debacle but just who is it that deserves that blame ? We will gang up on the govverrmmenttt mighty rapidly but maybe we the people cannot avoid having to accept some of the blame ?

But didn't we change the government umpteen times and that didn't change anything now did it ? Perhaps if we take a look in the nearest mirror we might find who didn't step up to the plate ?

There's actually nothing wrong with us. I'm one of those people who spent their entire education in the Irish system and still can't speak a word of Irish. Yet I managed to pick up decent Spanish within the space of about two years as an adult. Why? Because, like those Poles and Latvians, it was useful for me to learn it.

dr.bollocko · 13-03-2013 11:44AM

An Coilean wrote: »

Céard é an Béarla ar 'Éirí as do cuid seafóid agus lig daoine a dteanga fhéin a labhairt'?

mod:
This is an english language discussion forum.

If you post in Irish please also provide an English translation.

Grudaire · 13-03-2013 11:46AM

Wibbs wrote: »

That's the thing AC, most of us don't see it as the native language of the country. Even those and there would be many who do see it as something valuable and "native" don't bother learning it.

Culturally though there should be no doubt that it is the native of the country.

When you look at Irish history and the names associated with it "Aodh Ruadh Ó Domhnaill" or Red Hugh O'Donnell, Brian Boru etc etc. Strongbow and the great King Billy had to fight someone!
Look at any standing stones, and the Ogham written on them

Irish folklore, Setanta, Cú Culainn, Na Fianna etc etc

Even walking around looking at placenames.. Derry = Doire = Oak Grove.

Hiberno-English or whatever you would consider the 'native language' of the country is saturated in Irish. Deny it or not Irish is the native language of the Island.

Anyway I'll leave yiz all to continue trolling each other ;-) Bíodh seachtain na Gaeilge álainn agaibh uilig

Mr Benevolent · 13-03-2013 12:02PM

Imagine being taught our native tongue for 9 years in the best learning years of your life and not being able to ask two simple playschool questions at the end of that.....what is your name ?......what is your address ?
Says an awful lot about our intelligence, eh ? .

It says nothing about intelligence, but it says a lot about the perceived usefulness of the Irish language. You were also taught algebra for six years, how much of that do you remember? Yet algebra is far more useful than Irish.

One of the main problems with the Irish language is the snobbery associated with users of it. Compare that with Wales, where Welsh s used openly and without rancour. Why? Because there's no cadre of snobs and teachers, noses high in the air declaiming from pedestals about the superiority of 'their' language.

I managed to get the rudiments of Swedish in under two years, and ten years later with no intervening use of the language I can still make myself understood. What does that say about how Irish is taught? Simple. It says that if you're not interested in a language you won't learn it, and to be interested in a language it needs to be useful to most people. Irish is not useful to most people, therefore we're not interested in it.

Pumpkinseeds · 13-03-2013 12:07PM

I think that the way in which the Irish language has/is being taught in schools is a huge part of the problem. I know that I remember very little of what I learned of it in school. The guards not being fluent Irish speakers is, in my opinion, fairly representative of the majority of the Irish population.

I really don't think that the guards should need to speak fluent Irish. What about translators having to be provided for non English speakers who are before the courts, should the gardai be expected to be multi lingual?

I have no interest in the Irish language, nobody I know has any interest in speaking it and I think its high time it was removed as a mandatory subject in schools. It should be an optional subject and students would be far better off spending their time learning a language that they can actually use when they finish school.

No international business is going to have any interest in hiring people who can speak Irish, what they are interested in is potential employees who can speak fluently in different european languages.

Leroy42 · 13-03-2013 12:23PM

I don't speak Irish, and have the same experience of school Irish as many on here.

However, I disagree that it should not be a mantatory language. It is part of our culture, a part we should be proud of. The fact that it is not 'useful' in international business, surely that is not the only reason for learning?

Should all other languages just accept that English and Chinese are now the only ones that really matter?

Our language is part what helps to sets us apart, I have no issue with people wanting to learn and use the language, but I don't think I should be made feel any less 'Irish' because I don't speak it.

I believe that it should be taught differently, try to move away from the learning of poems that I had to do (we rewrote them in English and learned some lines by heart in Irish!), and instead teach like we do with Spanish etc. Teach people how to order a coffee, hold a short conversation, ask for directions. Certainly I always get the impression that you are looked down on for not knowing Irish and it is your job to catch up to the right level.

With the rise in Gaelscoil etc, I think many people do see the value in the language, if nothing else then from our own sense of uniqueness. But it needs to be more inclusive. This Gaeltacht idea of only Irish is selfish and elitist and does nothing to help the language.

On the OP question, not sure about scraping the role but as far as I can tell the current holder oes not seem to be bringing much new to the table and therefore should be gotten rid of.

Scrap the Irish Language Commissioner

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