Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

kevmy85 · 05-03-2013 11:57AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I don't think that would work as a lot of people listen while say doing and eating the dinner, out in the car, at work or while out running or cycling, basically activities in which you can have the radio on in the background. Not many will sit down and watch/listen on a computer for 3 hours or so.

I agree in many ways but I think journalism is changing and going further down that route, especially sports journalism. Just look at Deadspin in the US, place like balls.ie and Joe.ie here.

Ideally you would have a whole internet radio station with proper backing. There are a lot of decent journalists not doing much in Ireland right now, with the current old-stagers blocking entry or advancement to the younger crew.

Ol' Donie · 05-03-2013 12:01PM

There seem to be a fair few people who listen to the repeat in the morning or the archive/podcasts on the website. Are these included in the listenership figures does anyone know?

IRE60 · 05-03-2013 12:02PM

@Cienciano: Jasus if you think that was “arrogantly written” then you and me have bi-polar views on arrogance.
It was simply stating the facts, in numbers etc and relying on the figures to shed some light on the matter.

Its’ not one sided’ – it’s using all the publicly available information (as of this morning) to comment on the resignations. The ex-hosts of the programme have worked in the media for upwards of ten years in some cases.
They know how it works. It’s a two sided affair, should you choose to make it that way – but they haven’t – the silence is regrettable. If you choose to stay silent, then one side gets the big share of voice.

@kevmy85 Hook has bigger numbers in ‘000 and in %’s 39,000 and 1% vs 131,000 and 4%. The graph below shows how there is no magical spike at the end of Hooks Show – actually its quiet the reverse.

wnolan1992 · 05-03-2013 12:03PM

Ol' Donie wrote: »

There seem to be a fair few people who listen to the repeat in the morning or the archive/podcasts on the website. Are these included in the listenership figures does anyone know?

No, they're not, as the listenership figures are primarily for attracting advertisers, and there are no ads in the repeat or the podcasts.

ThisRegard · 05-03-2013 12:05PM

wnolan1992 wrote: »

No, they're not, as the listenership figures are primarily for attracting advertisers, and there are no ads in the repeat or the podcasts.

There are ads on the listen back recordings I thought ?

Harry Angstrom · 05-03-2013 12:05PM

I had a feeling this might have been on the cards since NT decided to mess around with the Friday night schedule. It always seemed a bit silly to have a (mostly) recorded show on a night before a weekend of sporting events.

Considering current affairs listeners are already well catered for, with the likes of Drivetime and Matt Cooper, I can't see why they couldn't have tried out the 6pm start. Pare back Sean Moncrieff's show to finish at 4 o'clock, G.Hook between 4 and 6, and then Off The Ball. It would've been worth a try.

wnolan1992 · 05-03-2013 12:11PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

There are ads on the listen back recordings I thought ?

There are. I would assume that it's not counted because it would be exceedingly difficult to get accurate figures. It would be very easy to just open 10 tabs listening to it to boost the figures. Not to mention advertisers want to know they're advertising to people who can actually buy their products. Not much use in Kildare Village (for example) paying extra for advertising when 90% of people listening on the internet/listen back could be outside of Ireland.

InchicoreDude · 05-03-2013 12:11PM

The Guardian wrote: »

dont think they wanted an extra hour, just wanted to start an hr earlier.
brings them into a whole new territory. the 5-7pm timeframe is golden, on many different levels

having a sports programme on during this window (on a station that purports itself to be a current affairs outfit primarily) would be nuts

Oh really, they wanted to do 6 - 9???

And that means they would go off air before football matches finish! I cant see them asking for that.... I often listen to the football show between 9-10 to hear updates on goals on live matches when i am not watching the match...

In fairness, Newstalk have the breakfast programme, the lunchtime show and the 1st hour of the Hook show that cover current affairs which is a lot.

Actually, does Hook cover current affairs at all after 6? He has a technology section on some days, a travel section on some days, and a movie section on some days. Really, all these could be accomodated on another slot (and some are - Moncrieff also covers movies)

servicecharge · 05-03-2013 12:19PM

I think the guys had a good future plan. God forbid anyone to try something new in Irish radio.

GHook is up for retirement in the relatively near future, he already packs the studio with other voices after six o’clock. And what happens when he does retire? There is no natural replacement for him, and who ever does will have to win an audience share from Drivetime and Matt Cooper. Off the Ball could have carved out a new niche, as it did in the 7pm slot.

The fact that it currently only has a 50,000 audience is more to do with the available audience, ie they are the highest rated show in that time slot. By offering a sports show at 5pm they would leave RTE1 and Today Fm to fight over news and sweep up all the men sitting in their cars.

I don’t have much of an interest in sport, just found off the ball incredibly good radio. I think it would have been an interesting departure to move to an earlier slot.

Newstalk is goosed when Hook retires.

Harry Angstrom · 05-03-2013 12:20PM

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Actually, does Hook cover current affairs at all after 6? He has a technology section on some days, a travel section on some days, and a movie section on some days. Really, all these could be accomodated on another slot (and some are - Moncrieff also covers movies)

The content of Hook's show after 6 is usually dire. The movie slot reminds me of a couple of oul fellas in a pub trying to remember films and TV shows that they saw 30 or 40 years ago. The travel slot usually consists of the smugger than smug Fionn Davenport telling us about all the great places he's been to, and the Thursday interview is nothing more than Hook licking the @rse off some minor celebrity. It wouldn't be missed.

mike65 · 05-03-2013 12:20PM

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Considering current affairs listeners are already well catered for, with the likes of Drivetime and Matt Cooper, I can't see why they couldn't have tried out the 6pm start. Pare back Sean Moncrieff's show to finish at 4 o'clock, G.Hook between 4 and 6, and then Off The Ball. It would've been worth a try.

No it wouldn't you don't voluntarily ditch tens of thousads of listeners, they are still putting up with Hook from 6 till 7 as they want to listen to him, swapping shows (esp such different ones) would immediately send most to either Cooper or Drivetime on RTE. That would be just lunatic for their income

Here is the rate card

Individual Rates
The Right Hook with George Hook 16:28 – 19:00 500
Off the Ball 19:00 – 22:00 150

If the "lads" thought they could actually swing this they have shown themselves to have been incredibly naive, they had a weak hand.

deadduck · 05-03-2013 12:21PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

There are ads on the listen back recordings I thought ?

Listen back recordings have ads, but the podcasts don't.

heybaby · 05-03-2013 12:26PM

Ol' Donie wrote: »

There seem to be a fair few people who listen to the repeat in the morning or the archive/podcasts on the website. Are these included in the listenership figures does anyone know?

Nope not that im aware of.

servicecharge · 05-03-2013 12:29PM

mike65 wrote: »

No it wouldn't you don't voluntarily ditch tens of thousads of listeners, they are still putting up with Hook from 6 till 7 as they want to listen to him, swapping shows (esp such different ones) would immediately send most to either Cooper or Drivetime on RTE. That would be just lunatic for their income

Here is the rate card

If they "lads" thought they could actually swing this they have shown themselves to have been incredibly naive, they had a weak hand.

That is all to do with audience numbers between five and seven, not market share. Half the country is in their car or has their ear phones on between 5 and 7.

A majority of which are men: and men like sports! It would be easy to make up for the loss of women by grabbing more men from MC and RTE.

Fits Morris · 05-03-2013 12:30PM

If you're mananging a national commercial radio station, replacing Hooks 6-7 hour with a niche programme like Off The Ball made no sense whatsoever from any point of view.

heybaby · 05-03-2013 12:35PM

mike65 wrote: »

No it wouldn't you don't voluntarily ditch tens of thousads of listeners, they are still putting up with Hook from 6 till 7 as they want to listen to him, swapping shows (esp such different ones) would immediately send most to either Cooper or Drivetime on RTE. That would be just lunatic for their income

Here is the rate card

If the "lads" thought they could actually swing this they have shown themselves to have been incredibly naive, they had a weak hand.

This is the very reason why I think the lads' demands to move to an earlier slot is not entirely true. Another central question is why would all 5 of the lads walk away en masse? Just a thought, but perhaps Newstalk wanted to lose one or more of the team yet continue with the format unchanged, after all newstalk has been loss making hasnt it ? Perhaps the lads said to management, either we all stay or we all go, perhaps they felt the product would suffer if fewer people were on the team, just a thought.

Harry Angstrom · 05-03-2013 12:35PM

mike65 wrote: »

No it wouldn't you don't voluntarily ditch tens of thousads of listeners, they are still putting up with Hook from 6 till 7 as they want to listen to him, swapping shows (esp such different ones) would immediately send most to either Cooper or Drivetime on RTE. That would be just lunatic for their income

What about the listeners who have had enough of current affairs by 6 o'clock? You don't think they might be inclined to switch over to Off The Ball if it started earlier? I'm sure that there will be some NT listeners who will go to Drivetime and Cooper if Hook finished at 6, but I'm also pretty sure that there will be listeners who will go from Drivetime/Cooper to Off The Ball as well, not to mention the casual listeners who avoid current affairs radio and who find themselves listening to inane shyte like 2fm.

mike65 · 05-03-2013 12:36PM

servicecharge wrote: »

That is all to do with audience numbers between five and seven, not market share. Half the country is in their car or has their ear phones on between 5 and 7.

A majority of which are men: and men like sports! It would be easy to make up for the loss of women by grabbing more men from MC and RTE.

I think you over-estimate the power of a bunch of lads being full of "clever clever" references (that the casual listener would hardly even get) in that slightly smug knowing tone.

ballsymchugh · 05-03-2013 12:42PM

the 5 leaving together makes it harder to go elsewhere with the same format. if they were poached, then fine, but unless they've something lined up, a potential new employer can split them easily enough.
if they went to RTE, why would RTE have to tell whatever existing producer to take a hike because Eoin/Ken/Murph only want to work with simon hick or mark horgan? it'd make more sense to a new employer to hire 2 or 3 of them, than have to let existing producers go to accommodate the 2 others.

i've a strange feeling they won't all be back together.

TBP · 05-03-2013 12:46PM

Fits Morris wrote: »

If you're mananging a national commercial radio station, replacing Hooks 6-7 hour with a niche programme like Off The Ball made no sense whatsoever from any point of view.

It could well have been a master stroke. Cooper mainly covers sport in his last hour or so anyways. He would have lost a lot of listeners if Off the Ball was on at the same time.

heybaby · 05-03-2013 12:46PM

I see theres a facebook support page now too :

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Off-the-ball-lads-Boycott-Newstalk/418086228281873

Larbre34 · 05-03-2013 12:52PM

heybaby wrote: »

I see theres a facebook support page now too :

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Off-the-ball-lads-Boycott-Newstalk/418086228281873

Ridiculous.

ballsymchugh · 05-03-2013 12:54PM

heybaby wrote: »

I see theres a facebook support page now too :

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Off-the-ball-lads-Boycott-Newstalk/418086228281873

off the ball is still there. boycotting newstalk wouldn't be supporting them at all :P

kevmy85 · 05-03-2013 12:55PM

IRE60 wrote: »

@Cienciano: Jasus if you think that was “arrogantly written” then you and me have bi-polar views on arrogance.
It was simply stating the facts, in numbers etc and relying on the figures to shed some light on the matter.

Its’ not one sided’ – it’s using all the publicly available information (as of this morning) to comment on the resignations. The ex-hosts of the programme have worked in the media for upwards of ten years in some cases.
They know how it works. It’s a two sided affair, should you choose to make it that way – but they haven’t – the silence is regrettable. If you choose to stay silent, then one side gets the big share of voice.

@kevmy85 Hook has bigger numbers in ‘000 and in %’s 39,000 and 1% vs 131,000 and 4%. The graph below shows how there is no magical spike at the end of Hooks Show – actually its quiet the reverse.

Interesting graph. Have you got similar ones for other stations?

I was referring to percentages of people listening to the radio at the time, i.e. between 7-10 there are much less people listening to the radio 39,000 could be 50% , whereas between 4.30-7 131,00 could be only 20% of listeners.

Utopia Parkway · 05-03-2013 12:55PM

Fits Morris wrote: »

If you're mananging a national commercial radio station, replacing Hooks 6-7 hour with a niche programme like Off The Ball made no sense whatsoever from any point of view.

Hook's show is terrible but it would make no sense to have sports from 6 let alone 5. That is drivetime when a lot of women are listening as well as men. The women would switch off in their droves if there was a dedicated sports show on then. Granted the lads would get more men listening but they still wouldn't pull in anywhere near Hook's numbers because the female listenership would be tiny.

Dave! · 05-03-2013 12:57PM

What's Hook's female listenership figures? I wouldn't have expected they'd be terribly high considering he's a conservative, slobbering, chauvinistic pig.

Ol' Donie · 05-03-2013 12:58PM

Just thinking...would a compromise be to try it at six one or two nights a week? Maybe do without the sport bits on the right hook and shuffle the rest of it around a little bit?

If the show outperforms its competition after seven, why not give it a shot a little earlier?

mike65 · 05-03-2013 01:10PM

Here is the graph everyone needs to see (I hope conor at ilevel will not mind me putting this up) Hooky is red OTB is blue (not a song lyric)

http://www.ilevel.ie/media-blog/radio/102474-off-the-ball-resignations

Cienciano · 05-03-2013 01:24PM

IRE60 wrote: »

@Cienciano: Jasus if you think that was “arrogantly written” then you and me have bi-polar views on arrogance.
It was simply stating the facts, in numbers etc and relying on the figures to shed some light on the matter.

Its’ not one sided’ – it’s using all the publicly available information (as of this morning) to comment on the resignations. The ex-hosts of the programme have worked in the media for upwards of ten years in some cases.
They know how it works. It’s a two sided affair, should you choose to make it that way – but they haven’t – the silence is regrettable. If you choose to stay silent, then one side gets the big share of voice.

Well, it's directly comparing 2 different time slots for a start. He says Off the Ball loses 100k listeners who switch off when hook if finished. Well, that's wrong, look at the graph you posted yourself, the graph is going down well before George signs off. Radio listenership goes down at that time on all stations. Poorly written, and I think sarcastic phrases like "Their fantastic plan was to take an hour off hook..." when the facts aren't out makes the writer look like a bit of a tool.
As for your views on both sides of the story aren't out, that's how journalism works, well, your right. Sort of. That's how poor tabloid journalism works. Joe Duffy does it all the time. One side won't come on so he'll slate them. Decent journalism waits for both sides of the story and reserves judgement/remains pretty much neutral until then.

IRE60 · 05-03-2013 01:39PM

No, again - the split between men and women between the hours of 5 and 7 is 53/47* - so you're suggesting that you simply dump half that audience?

Again - their is very little 'fact' in some of the comments - its guessing at worst or emotionally charged at best.

*All stations

Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

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