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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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    #1952
    k123456
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭k123456


    Hi has anyone seen any good deals on
    Non Boiler, comtempory stove, either wood only or multi fuel will be going in room approx 35 to 40 sqm. Based in Dublin will travel to NI if price worth it

    Thanks


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    #1953
    Robbie.G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭Robbie.G


    TomOnBoard wrote: »

    Hi, I'm looking for thin-wall not twin-wall. Thanks
    Sorry eyesight must be going ordinary single wall should be available from any wholesaler.How much you want and what you need it for


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    #1954
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Robbie.G wrote: »
    Sorry eyesight must be going ordinary single wall should be available from any wholesaler.How much you want and what you need it for

    Ha! Ha!:D

    You'd want to see the yokes I just got from Specsavers:o Bottoms of Coke bottles!!

    Initially 'm looking for about 3 or 4 metres of 5 or 6 inch (more or less depending on cost)for a project to build a Rocket Mass Heater in a shed.

    Thanks


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    #1955
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    k123456 wrote: »
    Hi has anyone seen any good deals on
    Non Boiler, comtempory stove, either wood only or multi fuel will be going in room approx 35 to 40 sqm. Based in Dublin will travel to NI if price worth it

    Thanks

    I think there is a question you must answer for yourself first:

    Chinese stove or European stove.

    The greatest difference in price revolves around this question, and it doesn't matter where you buy, the Chinese ones will ALWAYS be cheaper by a good mile.

    The next question revolves around usage- if decorative or for occasional use, you're unlikely to burn even the cheapest stove out before you're sick of it anyway and will want to throw it out. (That said, take a look at this useful comment from http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.ie/2012/11/cheap-multi-fuel-stoves-ireland.html)

    If, however, you will be depending on the stove for a lot of your heating and will be burning a lot of coal or smokeless bituminous fuels, its easier to see how you might stretch a cheaper stove as the quality will not be the same as a European stove like Stanley or Jotul or equivalent. In this case also, efficiency will be more critical to save fuel cost- better designed stoves will be capable of burning hotter and will turn more of your fuel into usable heat rather than sending it up the chimney.

    Finally, if you're going to be burning wood, I suggest that you ensure you have access to WELL SEASONED timber, burn it hot (ie keep dampers open and regulate heat output by making smaller or larger fires) to save the chimney and stove from creosote, ensure your stove has a good secondary burn capability to ensure complete combustion, feed the air supply from outside and ensure any glass benefits from a good air-wash system.

    Hope this helps.


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    #1956
    k123456
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭k123456


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    I think there is a question you must answer for yourself first:

    Chinese stove or European stove.

    The greatest difference in price revolves around this question, and it doesn't matter where you buy, the Chinese ones will ALWAYS be cheaper by a good mile.

    The next question revolves around usage- if decorative or for occasional use, you're unlikely to burn even the cheapest stove out before you're sick of it anyway and will want to throw it out. (That said, take a look at this useful comment from http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.ie/2012/11/cheap-multi-fuel-stoves-ireland.html)

    If, however, you will be depending on the stove for a lot of your heating and will be burning a lot of coal or smokeless bituminous fuels, its easier to see how you might stretch a cheaper stove as the quality will not be the same as a European stove like Stanley or Jotul or equivalent. In this case also, efficiency will be more critical to save fuel cost- better designed stoves will be capable of burning hotter and will turn more of your fuel into usable heat rather than sending it up the chimney.

    Finally, if you're going to be burning wood, I suggest that you ensure you have access to WELL SEASONED timber, burn it hot (ie keep dampers open and regulate heat output by making smaller or larger fires) to save the chimney and stove from creosote, ensure your stove has a good secondary burn capability to ensure complete combustion, feed the air supply from outside and ensure any glass benefits from a good air-wash system.

    Hope this helps.

    Hi Tom

    Thanks for coming back to me , so quickly

    I'm new to the whole stove game, tell me more about

    "feed the air supply from outside "

    "In this case also, efficiency will be more critical to save fuel cost-"
    What kind of efficiency figures , should I aim for

    Will be using the stove for heating the room, so not for occasional use, and want something that will last


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    #1957
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    k123456 wrote: »
    Hi Tom

    Thanks for coming back to me , so quickly

    I'm new to the whole stove game, tell me more about

    "feed the air supply from outside "

    "In this case also, efficiency will be more critical to save fuel cost-"
    What kind of efficiency figures , should I aim for

    Will be using the stove for heating the room, so not for occasional use, and want something that will last

    Basically, more advanced stoves will allow the air supply to be provided via a pipe from the outside. In a modern highly sealed house, this ensures that the fire will get an adequate supply of air. Some people go to a lot of trouble insulating and draught- proofing their house /room and as a result not enough air gets to the fire and poor combustion/venting of the stove to the outside takes place. (Such total sealing of a room with ANY type of fuelled stove isn't the safest but that's another story- think absolute need for Carbon Monoxide Alarms etc!!)

    As to efficiency ratings/figures- the 'snake-oil' of stove sellers!! There's a UK agency (I cant remember its name right now- maybe someone else here will help) that rates all the stoves sold in UK and gives figures like 75% or 83% etc. Suffice it to say, take any figures with a pinch of salt as real-world conditions may differ dramatically from the laboratory settings in which tests are run.

    At it simplest, a Kg of wood @ 20% moisture content will produce an amount of heat. How much of that heat will be made available to the room versus how much will go up the chimney defines what you are after. And of course, if you are burning wet fuel, you need to generate a lot of heat to dry out the fuel before it will burn and produce more heat...

    On the basis of your final criteria, you're going to be relying on this stove for some time. Someone needs to advise you how much output (expressed in KW) you need from that stove for your room, having regard to insulation levels etc, and you can then start to zero in on the various options from a number of manufacturers .

    By that stage, you will have defined your requirement, and are in a position to make a decision best on best VALUE rather than just best PRICE, taking EVERYTHING into account. (For example, what type of chimney do you have, and will you have to re-line an existing one or install a new twin/triple wall exhaust at a cost of €700-2000 depending on required work).

    One of my buddies bought a lovely Stanley Oisin stove last October for €440 and ended up paying €750 to have it installed!! Ouch!!


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    #1958
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    TomOnBoard wrote: »

    Finally, if you're going to be burning wood, I suggest that you ensure you have access to WELL SEASONED timber, burn it hot (ie keep dampers open and regulate heat output by making smaller or larger fires) to save the chimney and stove from creosote, ensure your stove has a good secondary burn capability to ensure complete combustion, feed the air supply from outside and ensure any glass benefits from a good air-wash system.

    Hope this helps.

    This is interesting.

    You suggest that all wood is burnt at full pelt from the top damper?

    You'd certainly chew through a good deal of wood by doing that. Is the build up of creosote so severe on slow burns?


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    #1959
    irishgoldberg
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭irishgoldberg


    Hi, I'm finally getting round to doing up our "good sitting room" and was thinking of getting a stove put in. I noticed beside the fireplace a panel and looked inside to see a Salmson nyl33-25p pump. I cant find much detail on this pump is it suitable for use with stoves or just with a normal fire? Iv never used this pump with our fire, as I never knew it was there, the use fuse was in the wrong way so Iv checked it and the fuse light comes on.

    If anyone can help it would be much appreciated.


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    #1960
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    MugMugs wrote: »
    You suggest that all wood is burnt at full pelt from the top damper?
    I do.
    MugMugs wrote: »
    You'd certainly chew through a good deal of wood by doing that.
    Build smaller fires and burn them hotter, using enough air. A KG of wood (at a given moisture content) contains a fixed number of BTUs of heat. Only TOTAL combustion will release that heat. That total combustion is only possible if enough air is added. If enough air is not added, unburnt fuel goes up the chimney as a mix of volatile chemicals and is wasted to the outside. If the chimney is relatively cool, as a result of insufficient heat in the fire below, some of these chemicals are turned to tarry creosote and stick to the inside of the flue.
    MugMugs wrote: »
    Is the build up of creosote so severe on slow burns?
    With proper hot burns, creosote formation is almost totally avoided if the chimney is properly designed.


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    #1961
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Excellent post Tom! What would be your opinion on a stove not burning wood very well with dry wood and the top damper open? Potential draw issue or not enough draft?


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    #1962
    ms horatio
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭ms horatio


    Hi guys,long time reader of posts here.We've finally bitten the bullet and installed a boiler stove(Stanley Erin).We're very happy with it,the heat is amazing,the water's hot and the rads are piping.
    However...in order to install the stove we removed the fireplace and old back boiler and have now a big open fireplace where there was originally a big range.The stove looks great but the original chimney had no liner(I think that's the word) and we used a fexi flue liner to link the stove to the chimney pot.
    Now the question,we're left with basically a big gap round the flue pipe all the way to the top.Can we sort of "box" it in,like put a wooden or metal slab horizontally above the stove to cut off the chimney altogether?
    Is this a good/bad idea?How would we go about it?From a safety point of view,what SHOULD we do?
    Thanks guys,ms h


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    #1963
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    ms horatio wrote: »
    Hi guys,long time reader of posts here.We've finally bitten the bullet and installed a boiler stove(Stanley Erin).We're very happy with it,the heat is amazing,the water's hot and the rads are piping.
    However...in order to install the stove we removed the fireplace and old back boiler and have now a big open fireplace where there was originally a big range.The stove looks great but the original chimney had no liner(I think that's the word) and we used a fexi flue liner to link the stove to the chimney pot.
    Now the question,we're left with basically a big gap round the flue pipe all the way to the top.Can we sort of "box" it in,like put a wooden or metal slab horizontally above the stove to cut off the chimney altogether?
    Is this a good/bad idea?How would we go about it?From a safety point of view,what SHOULD we do?
    Thanks guys,ms h
    How much of a gap are we talking about? Did you use twin wall flexi liner? Is the flexi liner joined directly to the stove? Pics, if possible would help


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    #1964
    ms horatio
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭ms horatio


    From what I remember,not twin-walled flexi liner.The gap is 19inx41in.Flexi liner attached to about a metre of solid flue pipe to the stove and attached to the chimney pot on the roof.
    Will try put up some pics tomorrow,thanks for getting back on this Dtp79


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    #1965
    Dtp79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭Dtp79


    ms horatio wrote: »
    From what I remember,not twin-walled flexi liner.The gap is 19inx41in.Flexi liner attached to about a metre of solid flue pipe to the stove and attached to the chimney pot on the roof.
    Will try put up some pics tomorrow,thanks for getting back on this Dtp79
    Sorry it HAS to be twin wall and should be insulated with vermiculite. What is the gap around the actual flexi flue as in how much space is around it


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    #1966
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    MugMugs wrote: »
    Excellent post Tom! What would be your opinion on a stove not burning wood very well with dry wood and the top damper open? Potential draw issue or not enough draft?

    A few questions to help clarify:

    What wood are you using?
    How does it burn with top damper closed?
    Did it ever burn well?
    When was chimney last cleaned?
    Does stove burn better if you open a door or window into the room?
    Does it have a boiler?
    If no boiler, are there firebricks and are they in good condition?


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    #1967
    MugMugs
    Registered Users Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    A few questions to help clarify:

    What wood are you using?
    How does it burn with top damper closed?
    Did it ever burn well?
    When was chimney last cleaned?
    Does stove burn better if you open a door or window into the room?
    Does it have a boiler?
    If no boiler, are there firebricks and are they in good condition?

    For a friend of mine I was visiting last night and drew their attention to your comments.

    Kiln dried wood. The Top Damper seems to further prohibit a burn of the fuel.

    It's newly installed so whilst he is only getting used to it, the stove just wasn't giving a massive amount of heat after about three hours with the damper fully open

    Chimney was cleaned a week before installation.

    No external door or windows were opened but I left the stove door slightly ajar and the flames rose and it burnt very well. No boiler but a fireback and a full coat of what I am told is insulation surrounding and behind the stove / fire back.

    The chimney is about 36 foot and had quite a good draw when the smoke test was done.


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    #1968
    k123456
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭k123456


    What are the differences between wood stove and multi fuel

    Is there a price premium for multi fuel, is it worth it

    In terms of heat output which is better

    When you burn wood in a multi fuel, is the multi fuel stove less efficient at burning wood


    Thanks


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    #1969
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    MugMugs wrote: »
    For a friend of mine I was visiting last night and drew their attention to your comments.

    Kiln dried wood. The Top Damper seems to further prohibit a burn of the fuel.

    It's newly installed so whilst he is only getting used to it, the stove just wasn't giving a massive amount of heat after about three hours with the damper fully open

    Chimney was cleaned a week before installation.

    No external door or windows were opened but I left the stove door slightly ajar and the flames rose and it burnt very well. No boiler but a fireback and a full coat of what I am told is insulation surrounding and behind the stove / fire back.

    The chimney is about 36 foot and had quite a good draw when the smoke test was done.

    What is the make/model of the stove? If newly installed, has your friend got back to the supplier/installer to advise his/her dissatisfaction with the stove's performance?

    From what you describe, the stove may be getting less air from the main air intake than it needs for a total burn. This can happen if the main air is supplied via a damper that is not opening properly or is partially blocked. If you advise make/model of the stove, I might be able to advise further.


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    #1970
    Brianne
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Brianne


    Brianne wrote: »
    Blue what insert are you going to go with? The guy that installed our boiler insert charged 800 but that included 2 large double rads which he bought and installed instead of 2 single ones that he had to remove and also he put one of those single ones elsewhere. He put thermostats which he provided on most of the rads also. He also lined the chimney. He was the bones of 2 days here as he ran into a problem with some of the pipes from our original back boiler which also he had to remove. The flexi flue a good 904 grade and vermiculite etc came to 630.

    Just realised after checking that our labour was actually 1400 and not 800 as I had already thought.


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    #1971
    mollybelle
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mollybelle


    Hi Guys,

    Have changed my mind about inserting the Stanley Cara insert and now thinking of the Boru 600i. Has anyone put this in and are you happy with its performance. I am going to have it put at a height of 18" from the hearth.

    Would welcome any reviews


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    #1972
    jiggerypokery
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭jiggerypokery


    MugMugs wrote: »
    For a friend of mine I was visiting last night and drew their attention to your comments.

    Kiln dried wood. The Top Damper seems to further prohibit a burn of the fuel.

    It's newly installed so whilst he is only getting used to it, the stove just wasn't giving a massive amount of heat after about three hours with the damper fully open

    Chimney was cleaned a week before installation.

    No external door or windows were opened but I left the stove door slightly ajar and the flames rose and it burnt very well. No boiler but a fireback and a full coat of what I am told is insulation surrounding and behind the stove / fire back.

    The chimney is about 36 foot and had quite a good draw when the smoke test was done.

    Does stove performance improve with a door or window open?

    If it does the room may need additional ventilation to the outside.


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    #1973
    maeve1308
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭maeve1308


    i need help,we bought a stove 8 years ago off a fireplace shop in limerick, they fitted it and it has never worked correctly ,my husband has since passed away and i now want to replace this stove and put in another one in my front room, i want good quality and backup and dont mind paying if i can get this, i am in the limerick city area, can anyone recommend a good stove company to me,maeve


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    #1974
    Universal2000
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Universal2000


    Hi there,

    I'm looking to change my stove to a Clearview Vision 500 8kw Multifuel Stove
    with a back bolier to heat my rads upstairs and hot water. I have a gas bolier system. Is this possible ?
    Currently I have a Standly stove , non back bolier and no pipe work running to the stove. My house is about 20yrs old.

    Regards


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    #1975
    Robbie.G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭Robbie.G


    Universal2000 wrote: »
    Hi there,

    I'm looking to change my stove to a Clearview Vision 500 8kw Multifuel Stove
    with a back bolier to heat my rads upstairs and hot water. I have a gas bolier system. Is this possible ?
    Currently I have a Standly stove , non back bolier and no pipe work running to the stove. My house is about 20yrs old.

    Regards
    Your heating system needs to be open vented to work with solid fuel it's the safest.But there are products that can let a stove work with sealed systems google heat genie from system link.Personally I wouldn't convert as I don't see when you would ever get payback.I would estimate the cost of converting your system including stove to be around 4-5k that's an awful amount of gas. last thing heating with natural gas is the cheapest form of heating and solid fuel the dearest


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    #1976
    kerry44
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭kerry44


    Just bought Boru chieftain boiler stove can any tell me about damper what number is night burning plus whats the other number are for


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    #1977
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    maeve1308 wrote: »
    i need help,we bought a stove 8 years ago off a fireplace shop in limerick, they fitted it and it has never worked correctly ,my husband has since passed away and i now want to replace this stove and put in another one in my front room, i want good quality and backup and dont mind paying if i can get this, i am in the limerick city area, can anyone recommend a good stove company to me,maeve

    Ryan stoves in the parkway shopping centre have a good selection and they have a showroom in birdhill also, they stock most of the better brands like morso, stovax and boru. Their stoves are also well priced compared to some

    Ask if their fitters are HETAS registered.(less chance of getting a cowboy if they are registered)

    Their fitter should call out to inspect your fireplace free of charge to make sure you are buying the correct stove and that it will work in your fireplace.


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    #1978
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    kerry44 wrote: »
    Just bought Boru chieftain boiler stove can any tell me about damper what number is night burning plus whats the other number are for

    the wheel with the numbers just turns and opens an air flap that allows more or less air to the fire. The higher the number the more air that will be let into the fire and the faster/hotter the fire will burn.

    To keep a fire overnight you will have to have the wheel almost closed ie set to 2 or 3 or maybe even closed.

    Overnight burning is difficult to get right and you will have to experiment with different fuels and air controls for a while.
    Few other points to consider with overnight burning
    1. the glass will be black in the morning and as it is still hot you will not be able to clean it properly.
    2. you will have to dispose of the buildup of hot ashes and will need a steel bucket to let them cool down.
    3. there is a possibility that if your fire dies out during the night and the chimney cools down that carbon monoxide will escape into the house, get CO alarm anyway to be safe
    4 a slow burn overnight will not give much heat to the rads or room as stove is designed for hotter burning
    5. building up fuel to keep in overnight with little air supply through the fire grate will greatly reduce the life of the grate ( 2 years approx.)
    Not saying it cant be done just a lot easier and cheaper to light it up again in the morning


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    #1979
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    mollybelle wrote: »
    Hi Guys,

    Have changed my mind about inserting the Stanley Cara insert and now thinking of the Boru 600i. Has anyone put this in and are you happy with its performance. I am going to have it put at a height of 18" from the hearth.

    Would welcome any reviews

    Fitted a few of each and the stanley is in my opinion better built with better quality materials.
    The boru works well also and throws out massive heat
    The stanley is around 5kw output and the boru 10kw you have to match the stove to the size of the room. do a search for (stove kw output calculator) to find out which you need. You cannot really get a stove twice the output needed and burn it less it will not work well that way.(boru 400i maybe more suitable)
    As for raising it up get the fitter to check your fireplace first as there may be a flue gather at this height and taking it out and re-supporting chimney is major job.


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    #1980
    The Stove Man
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭The Stove Man


    k123456 wrote: »
    What are the differences between wood stove and multi fuel

    Is there a price premium for multi fuel, is it worth it

    In terms of heat output which is better

    When you burn wood in a multi fuel, is the multi fuel stove less efficient at burning wood


    Thanks

    No fire grate or ash tray in wood burner, wood just burns on a flat bed with air from top control only
    Price roughly the same, heat output also the same ( heat is dependent on the fuel not the stove)
    A good multi fuel will allow you to close the bottom air and possibly the grate also to turn it into a wood burner so the efficiency will then be the same also.
    A wood burner requires very dry wood\15% moisture or less it will struggle to burn irish timber
    Get a multi fuel stove but try to get a good one, there are no good quality cheap stoves available, you get exactly what you pay for.


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    #1981
    creation mark
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭creation mark


    Hi guys

    Im looking for some advice on training courses for stove installation. I've tried Metac & Chevron & both have stopped running the course. it's been a very long time since i've installed a link up of solid/oil systems & of late, have been getting a lot of calls about installing such systems. I obviously hate to turn down the work however im not the kind of chap that would leave bad, unsafe work after me, hence my search for stove installers courses, can anyone direct me to such a thing, do they exist & if not, why not, as you all know a poorly designed system like this could be very dangerous & training is vital imo, any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

    Mark

    p.s, I've heard there's one running near Belfast, is there any closer to home (Dublin)?


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