Rangers FC On Field Gossip & Rumour Thread 2017 Mod Note in OP(Updated 14/08)

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 03-03-2013 07:08PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I suggest you read the report, the verdict is what everyone was expecting. It was the punishment that was unexpected

You of course mean the punishment didn't go the way many of you wanted and thought you would get when in your mind the commission was a standard for justice or rather your form of justice

It seems appropriate in the first place to consider whether such breach by non-disclosure
conferred any competitive advantage on Rangers FC. Given that we have held that Rangers FC
did not breach Rule D1.11 by playing ineligible players, it did not secure any direct competitive
advantage in that respect. If the breach of the rules by non-disclosure of the side-letters
conferred any competitive advantage, that could only have been an indirect one. Although it is
clear to us from Mr Odam’s evidence that Oldco’s failure to disclose the side-letters to the SPL
and the SFA was at least partly motivated by a wish not to risk prejudicing the tax advantages of
the EBT scheme, we are unable to reach the conclusion that this led to any competitive
advantage. There was no evidence before us as to whether any other members of the SPL used
similar EBT schemes, or the effect of their doing so. Moreover, we have received no evidence
from which we could possibly say that Oldco could not or would not have entered into the EBT
arrangements with players if it had been required to comply with the requirement to disclose the
arrangements as part of the players’ full financial entitlement or as giving rise to payment to
players. It is entirely possible that the EBT arrangements could have been disclosed to the SPL
and SFA without prejudicing the argument – accepted by the majority of the Tax Tribunal at
paragraph 232 of their decision – that such arrangements, resulting in loans made to the players,
did not give rise to payments absolutely or unreservedly held for or to the order of the individual
players. On that basis, the EBT arrangements could have been disclosed as contractual
arrangements giving rise to a facility for the player to receive loans, and there would have been
no breach of the disclosure rules.
[106] We therefore proceed on the basis that the breach of the rules relating to disclosure did
not give rise to any sporting advantage, direct or indirect. We do not therefore propose to
consider those sanctions which are of a sporting nature.

Jelle1880 · 04-03-2013 03:37AM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I suggest you read the report, the verdict is what everyone was expecting. It was the punishment that was unexpected

Nonsense, the verdict that was expected by Celtic fans was that Rangers would be found guilty of cheating and of deliberately not declaring millions of pounds, culminating in the loss of titles and hopefully millions in damages.

What happened was that Rangers were found guilty of an administrative error and fined £250.000.

Don't pretend this is what you expected.

bobmalooka · 04-03-2013 09:18AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Nonsense, the verdict that was expected by Celtic fans was that Rangers would be found guilty of cheating and of deliberately not declaring millions of pounds, culminating in the loss of titles and hopefully millions in damages.

What happened was that Rangers were found guilty of an administrative error and fined £250.000.

Don't pretend this is what you expected.

Wut?? Rangers WERE found guilty of deliberately not declaring millions of pounds.

Jelle1880 · 04-03-2013 10:07AM

bobmalooka wrote: »

Wut?? Rangers WERE found guilty of deliberately not declaring millions of pounds.

If it was deliberate then it would not have been called an administrative error.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 10:13AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

If it was deliberate then it would not have been called an administrative error.

There is no point Jelle of they don't want to read it and see it was basically for not handing over side letters or the fact the payments were included in the accounts

Jelle1880 · 04-03-2013 10:18AM

That's what they fail to see: The payments were not hidden, they were in the accounts.

Accounts that the SPL signed off on by the way.

It really must have hurt them

Lennonist · 04-03-2013 11:08AM

"That money was just resting in my account, we weren't trying to steal it, honest" to paraphrase Father Ted.

The Rangers/oldco/deadco/newco/ saga is the gift that keeps on giving:). How many titles do they have now 54,49,0?

This verdict has just left things muddy and unclean, Rangers made such an almighty mess of things that it appears there was no way of properly cleaning it up.

ColeTrain · 04-03-2013 11:16AM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fresh-woes-for-rangers-as-they-post-7m-loss-29106942.html

7million lost in 7months?

That's a lot of money to be losing in division 3, the prize for winning the division is £47,000 :pac:

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 11:28AM

ColeTrain wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/fresh-woes-for-rangers-as-they-post-7m-loss-29106942.html

7million lost in 7months?

That's a lot of money to be losing in division 3, the prize for winning the division is £47,000 :pac:

Really I don't think so considering the costs incurred in setting up the new holding company. The paying of footballing debts the purchase of Edminston house and the car park.
Also the fact the share price is steady says a lot

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 11:34AM

Lennonist wrote: »

"That money was just resting in my account, we weren't trying to steal it, honest" to paraphrase Father Ted.

The Rangers/oldco/deadco/newco/ saga is the gift that keeps on giving:). How many titles do they have now 54,49,0?

This verdict has just left things muddy and unclean, Rangers made such an almighty mess of things that it appears there was no way of properly cleaning it up.

You need help mate
The titles are still 54 as for the money if you instead of writing gibberish read the finding you would see that the money was shown in the accounts it was the fact the club was guilty of not handing over copies of the side letter.
It also states clearly that no rules were broken regarding the registration of players they were all eligible to play

Peppa Pig · 04-03-2013 11:43AM

How many titles will it be in May. Is it 54 or 55?

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 11:52AM

Peppa Pig wrote: »

How many titles will it be in May. Is it 54 or 55?

It will be 54 top titles and 1 third division titles its pretty clear that the 54 won't rise until we win a top title again. I really can't believe people are still asking this

Peppa Pig · 04-03-2013 11:56AM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

It will be 54 top titles and 1 third division titles its pretty clear that the 54 won't rise until we win a top title again. I really can't believe people are still asking this

First time I've seen it asked and was just curious. No need to be so defensive.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 12:00PM

Peppa Pig wrote: »

First time I've seen it asked and was just curious. No need to be so defensive.

Sorry mate I know it is the first time you have asked.
That is the only way to look at it though I don't think any club would count lower division titles in their main title haul

Brewster · 04-03-2013 01:31PM

As the ruling states, Rangers did not hand over the side letters for fear it would have implications for how EBT scheme was viewed. They were 100% spot on to do this. Had they handed over the letters, I don't think they would have won first tier tribunal. As I've said along, Rangers cleverly used a tax avoidance scheme for many years and they got away with it. Had it not been for the negative media spin, that presumed them guilty with a large tax bill to follow, maybe other buyers would have come forward and Craig Whyte may never have been given the opportunity to reek the damage that he did. This is the travesty of the whole situation which should have avoided.

RoryMac · 04-03-2013 01:43PM

Brewster wrote: »

As the ruling states, Rangers did not hand over the side letters for fear it would have implications for how EBT scheme was viewed. They were 100% spot on to do this. Had they handed over the letters, I don't think they would have won first tier tribunal. As I've said along, Rangers cleverly used a tax avoidance scheme for many years and they got away with it. Had it not been for the negative media spin, that presumed them guilty with a large tax bill to follow, maybe other buyers would have come forward and Craig Whyte may never have been given the opportunity to reek the damage that he did. This is the travesty of the whole situation which should have avoided.

By get away with it I presume you mean sold off, old company liquidated, re-start in Division 3?

Nobody won in this saga, the game has been severly damaged in Scotland, we are now left in a situation where Rangers feel they have been dealt with too harshly, other fans(Celtic in particular) feel Rangers have got off lightly, the divisions between the clubs is wider than anytime I can remember and it is at least 3 years from the top league in Scotland having any sort of competition.

Yeah Rangers won alright! :rolleyes:

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 01:54PM

RoryMac wrote: »

By get away with it I presume you mean sold off, old company liquidated, re-start in Division 3?

Nobody won in this saga, the game has been severly damaged in Scotland, we are now left in a situation where Rangers feel they have been dealt with too harshly, other fans(Celtic in particular) feel Rangers have got off lightly, the divisions between the clubs is wider than anytime I can remember and it is at least 3 years from the top league in Scotland having any sort of competition.

Yeah Rangers won alright! :rolleyes:

Got to say I and many others don't feel we have won we are naturally happy that O reached the decision that we would keep our titles but its been at a very high cost.
Your right at the moment there is a massive gulf between the clubs but this has been building IMO for at least 10 years. As for being in div 3 well yes that's where we are I can only hope we use this period to change how we play the game

RoryMac · 04-03-2013 02:10PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Got to say I and many others don't feel we have won we are naturally happy that O reached the decision that we would keep our titles but its been at a very high cost.
Your right at the moment there is a massive gulf between the clubs but this has been building IMO for at least 10 years. As for being in div 3 well yes that's where we are I can only hope we use this period to change how we play the game

Of course you're happy, I would be too in your place. The comment about Rangers winning wasn't directed at you but there are plenty who think you did, the same with Celtic fans celebrating you playing in Division 3. It's a bit like scoring a goal in a 5 - 1 defeat, yeah you cheer but at the end of the day it's still a sh!t position to be in.

Yes it gives you an opportunity to change some things, the same with us in regards bringing young players through etc but I really feel that unless we see leadership from someone in the SFA/SPL and an end to the clubs petty attacks the situation will be at boiling point when Rangers are back in the SPL.

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-03-2013 04:55PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Sorry mate I know it is the first time you have asked.
That is the only way to look at it though I don't think any club would count lower division titles in their main title haul

Really??

'we have 54 titles, how many clubs in the world can say that, and we'll have another one in a few weeks.

Guess who??

Jelle1880 · 04-03-2013 05:17PM

Well, it IS a title, right ?

Just not nr. 55.

TheBuilder · 04-03-2013 07:15PM

We're in talks with Jon Daly, would be a great signing.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 07:17PM

TheBuilder wrote: »

We're in talks with Jon Daly, would be a great signing.

Agreed big strong player who is mobile and has a good finish

Jelle1880 · 04-03-2013 07:21PM

He's also 30 years old...

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 07:39PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

He's also 30 years old...

Yeah but he is physically fit and will do a decent job for us. Kyle won't be there next season and to be honest I don't think McCulloch will feature much

Lonesome Boatman · 04-03-2013 08:06PM

If John Daly signs for sevco i will resign from this board

Mars Bar · 04-03-2013 08:10PM

Offending post has been dealt with thread cleaned up.

Just report the post and don't reply. No point in picking up yellows you could easily avoid by just using the report function.

Eirebear · 04-03-2013 08:10PM

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

If John Daly signs for sevco i will resign from this board

Well I wasn't overly excited about the idea, but now it's far more tempting!

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-03-2013 08:10PM

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

If John Daly signs for sevco i will resign from this board

See there you go you know fine well he can't sign for sevco they don't exist

blahfckingblah · 04-03-2013 09:48PM

i feel disappointed i missed the offending post

Lennonist · 04-03-2013 10:06PM

blahfckingblah wrote: »

i feel disappointed i missed the offending post

Yeah I'm curious, the lads from Off The Ball are gone, Aston Villa v Man City wont provide a whole lot of entertainment either. Anyone drop us a hint what was said;)

Rangers FC On Field Gossip & Rumour Thread 2017 Mod Note in OP(Updated 14/08)

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