Tell us the hourly rate of public servants.

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Did I say what age I was? Or that I came directly from college? No.

I worked for a phone company for a few years.

Why the interest in my qualifications? I'm qualified to be a teacher. Why does anything else matter?

Jesus, I just asked you a question to get some context on your pay level.

Education/Qualification Experience all contribute to pay rate generally.

purplecow1977 wrote: »

What experience do I need exactly? You have no idea of anything extra I may or may not have done, so please do not judge or make assumptions.

I divided my net pay each fortnight by 70 to get the net hourly figure, as asked.


I'm not claiming I'm living on pittance. But I'm certainly not rolling in it. I did say that I'm a single person - if I had a mortgage or children, which fingers crossed I will in a couple of years, then I would really have to reevaluate things. I have loans and bills just like everyone else that have to be paid. I have given up attempting to defend my job as those who view teachers in a negative light, will not have their opinions changed.

Just to mention - I'm well aware of how much time I get off - isn't everyone experts on teacher holidays! However, mentally I LIVE for that time off. Nobody understands until they're in that position themselves. Everyone assumes 'oh how hard can it be? You don't need those holidays at all', but we do. I can't explain, but if you taught for even 1 full month in my classroom, you would see that the time off is NEEDED, both for me AND them!

Look, I'm not belittling my job. I love it. I just don't think it's as fantastic as some make it out to be. [Usually those who have never taught a day in their life!]. If you've been there, and experienced it, then you are qualified to make such a judgement.

Every job, no matter what it is, has advantages and disadvantages. Nobody speaks about the disadvantages of teaching though - only teachers!

Everybody lives for their holidays.

Some people do jobs with life and death on the line. Some people deal with murders.

They are on less.

Teachers work very little. Annualised it is maybe 25 to 30 hours a week? Every holiday , bank holiday and weekend off.

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Hold on - where did I say I was 27? I said I was teaching 6 years! That's all!

Yes I have time off. It's nice having somewhat 'flexi' time midweek as some days I can leave at 3 and take work home with me instead of staying on site, particularly if I've had 'one of those days!'

Have I considered WHAT in my hours/week? Different weeks bring different things and challenges and requirements.

The trouble with teachers is that the time spent off school campus is never recognised. I accounted for it in my 35 hours or so yes. As stated, some weeks are more, some weeks are less. I imagine on average it's about 35 hours.

From what you have posted it seems as if you have averaged 35 hours per week on the weeks you work. Considering there's a lot of weeks you don't work then you can't just divide the gross by 52. Dividing by 37 would give a more accurate representation of what you get paid weekly

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Not true. Time is spent before each term in devising long term plans for the next term.

Anyway - I'm paid a yearly salary. I'm not paid for days/weeks I work or don't work. So I'm entitled to divide my salary by the time I work.

What's your ore tax yearly salary then?

Teachers are paid for 10 months of the year officially. Pay is then paid out over the 12 months on a fortnightly basis. So, on an official level, we are not paid for our summer holidays. I don't know what that might do to hourly calculations.

On a personal note, 35 hours seems to be about right for the amount of time I'd spend working every week. An hour or two after school most days keeps me organised and on top of my work. On the plus side, I can leave as soon as the bell goes if I have to and bring my corrections etc home with me. That flexitime is very useful for getting things done.

Maryanne84 wrote: »

Methinks purplecow1977 is taking the pee. For an educated person not to know exactly what they earn and pay in taxes is unbelievable.

I have first hand knowledge of a paye customer service area so believe me when I say the vast bulk of people I dealt with over a 2 and a half year period had little to no idea what they earned or paid in tax. This ranged all the way up from school going teenagers to people in their 70s. They were employed in various professions.
Some would come in and had to shown how to read their payslip. Others would appear each January like clockwork demanding tax back when they either had paid no tax or hadn't even worked the previous tax year.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Do you honestly - like honestly - have to do 1 to 2 hours a day after school every single day. Are there not times during the day that the work can be fit in and also - is there not repeatability year to year - this idea that summer holidays are spent devising the next years seems a bit far fetched ?

I'm lstening.

A teacher I had, spent - 2 to 3 hours a day reading the paper. Can a teacher be sacked - how many were sacked last year ?

Honestly yes I would have to spend minimum 1 hour of doing work after school. I can do some things during the day if they're working on a task, or some days I had my lunch at my desk & did my work there, but you'd still have 1/2 hours after school to do.

I don't spend my summer holidays devising plans, but I do admittedly spend the last week or so preparing things. A new class brings new challenges and nobody knows everything - you'll always be met with a new child who turns your world upside down [or at least tries!]

A teacher you had that read the paper for 2-3 hours SHOULD have been sacked. For so many reasons. I don't know of any teacher who has been sacked, and I admit, there are most likely a few around [isn't there in every profession?] but how can that be tackled? Performance related pay? Standardised test results? I'm all for getting rid of the wans who don't do any work - genuinely I am. But please don't lump us all into the same category of teacher as the one you had that read the paper for half the day. I work very hard at my job.

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Right grand yeah I'm loaded *rolls eyes* Do you KNOW what a salary is? It has already been stated what my current salary is. Why drone on and on [and on and on] about how many weeks or days I work/don't work. Jealous much?

I lied - I actually get paid so much money that I can't keep track of it all, hence MARY the reason for not knowing how much tax I pay.

I admit, I have a BMW 5 series that is parked in the garage of my very fancy detached house in a very upmarket area of Athlone. I've been playing Farmville all evening on Facebook and don't know what I'm doing in class tomorrow - I'll decide tomorrow. I leave school every day at 3pm and put my feet up on the velvet footstool watching The Afternoon Show. Even if the government taxed me another 10% I'd barely notice.

Over and out.

Well we are getting places now - people are on for a poor mouth - but not a false poor mouth.

It is the best job in the country. And none can get sacked - we have all had one who should have been.

I divided my net pay each fortnight by 70 to get the net hourly figure

I'm trying to follow what purplecow1977 is saying and I am very confused.

It is my understanding that teachers are contracted a various number of hours per week which varies depending on contract type, full time, temporary whole time, eligible part time etc. In a secondary school the maximum is a 22 hour teaching week (supervision of extra class may be required but that is outside of the core 22 hours, primary teacher. A bit out of date for primary schools but think it is around 28 hours 20 minutes a week. This is the working day and include break time. Again teachers have to provide supervision but in most Irish primary schools the SNAs now provide break/yard supervision.

I know there will be mention of preparation time, homework correction but I know a lot of teachers and very few of them actually correct homework at home (done during school) and as for lesson plans.....Even though if they did perform this work there are many other professions who also perform work outside of core hours for no pay.

Teachers are not paid for holidays but their salary for contracted hours split over the full year giving them the same salary every two weeks.

The idea of using an net figure is useless as everyone may have different net figures depending on their personal circumstances (mortgage relief, pension plan, married etc)

Hourly figures should always be a Gross figure allowing an easy comparsion of the gross salary of various professions, trades, jobs etc.

Primary schools must be open for 183 days a year.
Taking the 5 hours 40 minute school day we get 1037 teaching hours a year for primary teachers.

Primary schools must be open for 167 days a year.
This 167 can be broken down into 33.4 weeks. Taking the 22 hour contracted week this gives approx 734 teaching hours a year.

A primary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €37.61.

A secondary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

*Figures taken from the INTO and ASTI websites. Teachers also get an allowance for a having a degree, HDip etc. As a degree is required to teach the allowance is just a bonus. There are many jobs that require a degree and the person performing the job is not provided a bonus for having the degree.

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €53.13.

For secondary teachers there is also the option to supervise exams, correct exam papers, provide grinds etc

Teacher attending Exam Marking Seminars also get unvouched over night expenses.

amen wrote: »

I'm trying to follow what purplecow1977 is saying and I am very confused.

It is my understanding that teachers are contracted a various number of hours per week which varies depending on contract type, full time, temporary whole time, eligible part time etc. In a secondary school the maximum is a 22 hour teaching week (supervision of extra class may be required but that is outside of the core 22 hours, primary teacher. A bit out of date for primary schools but think it is around 28 hours 20 minutes a week. This is the working day and include break time. Again teachers have to provide supervision but in most Irish primary schools the SNAs now provide break/yard supervision.

I know there will be mention of preparation time, homework correction but I know a lot of teachers and very few of them actually correct homework at home (done during school) and as for lesson plans.....Even though if they did perform this work there are many other professions who also perform work outside of core hours for no pay.

Teachers are not paid for holidays but their salary for contracted hours split over the full year giving them the same salary every two weeks.

The idea of using an net figure is useless as everyone may have different net figures depending on their personal circumstances (mortgage relief, pension plan, married etc)

Hourly figures should always be a Gross figure allowing an easy comparsion of the gross salary of various professions, trades, jobs etc.

Primary schools must be open for 183 days a year.
Taking the 5 hours 40 minute school day we get 1037 teaching hours a year for primary teachers.

Primary schools must be open for 167 days a year.
This 167 can be broken down into 33.4 weeks. Taking the 22 hour contracted week this gives approx 734 teaching hours a year.

A primary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €37.61.

A secondary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

*Figures taken from the INTO and ASTI websites. Teachers also get an allowance for a having a degree, HDip etc. As a degree is required to teach the allowance is just a bonus. There are many jobs that require a degree and the person performing the job is not provided a bonus for having the degree.

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €53.13.

For secondary teachers there is also the option to supervise exams, correct exam papers, provide grinds etc

Teacher attending Exam Marking Seminars also get unvouched over night expenses.

Someone was busy!!!!

What do I say to that? Eh. Nothing! What CAN I say! But wow, I must be paid incorrectly - because €53.13 per hour you say? Wow. Will really have to ring payroll tomorrow and get them to sort this out for me!!

I gave NET figures as personally, what goes into my hand is all that matters to me.

I shall say no more about the subject as you have said it all!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Edited to add: My bad, was looking at the figures given for secondary. My gross hourly would be €37!

amen wrote: »

The idea of using an net figure is useless as everyone may have different net figures depending on their personal circumstances (mortgage relief, pension plan, married etc)

Hourly figures should always be a Gross figure allowing an easy comparsion of the gross salary of various professions, trades, jobs etc.

I heartily agree with this, and believe the use of post-tax figures is a disingenuous tactic that seems to be used by some who argue for the Public and Civil Services.

"That's what I'm paid, because I'm paid by the government, but they take some of it back and therefore my actual pay by my employer is <net figure>".

amen wrote: »

Primary schools must be open for 183 days a year.
Taking the 5 hours 40 minute school day we get 1037 teaching hours a year for primary teachers.

Primary schools must be open for 167 days a year.
This 167 can be broken down into 33.4 weeks. Taking the 22 hour contracted week this gives approx 734 teaching hours a year.

A primary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

Using the above figure we get a gross hourly rate of €37.61.

A secondary school teacher with 5 years experience and an honours degree would have a salary of €39,000* (give or take a few hundred euro).

These sums are equally disingenuous IMHO. I don't think it's fair to break a teacher's salary into only "official hours worked" and use that as a real hourly figure.
I envy teachers their extended holidays and relatively shortened working week, but unless they have the ability to get a job for those weeks off in a consistent manner, with a consistent salary, then you can't presume that they're hours with exactly equal earning potential.

fall wrote: »

A full time secondary school teacher will have class contact of 22 hours. They will also usually be a tutor to a group of thirty students. A lot of non class contact during the day will be spent dealing with discipline issues, meeting parents, dealing with students with personal issues, illness etc. this is daily. Correcting time during the school day rarely happens. All incidents that occurr have to be documented and records kept. There is a huge amount of administrative work on a daily basis as on an average day will teach over 150 students all with individual needs.
Then you have teachers assigned/ involved in different teams, eg anti bullying, school marketing, students of concern etc.. This all requires meeting time and again record keeping and administration.
In terms of preparation time the courses change quite frequently these days and with the introduction of digital projectors, Internet access and now Moodle, the constant updating and research of new methodologies is endless, but exciting and inspiring. These new resources often require tweaking as they may be from another country. Schemes of work are written year reflecting the new group of students, their ability and needs. It is rare that the same scheme can be used twice as no two groups of students are the same.
This is a brief synopsis of a teachers job before we even mention extra curricular, staff meetings, parent teacher meetings and open nights.
Not all teachers are good, some are appalling and should be sacked but the majority are dedicated and hard working. 35 hours a week? And the rest....

I think you are reaching a bit there. A bit too forced, or interview speak.

No doubt all that goes on - but that is a job description for anybody working in a modern job, or any industry.

New technology should improve things , if not - that is not great teaching.
Come on , how many Open Nights do you have to go to.

How many hours a night outside of your normal hours do you need to do these evening hours they go on about.

I'm up on the mid 40ks at the moment, and was just looking back at old payslips. I've been incrementing as normal but at the moment am getting ~ 12% less NET than I was back in 2008.

Would people consider 12% less as 'enough' of a cut, when coupled with the 2 hour increase in working hours proposed? Assuming also that there is no prospect for promotion, which I am probably due at this stage.