Tell us the hourly rate of public servants.

Xenophile

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

The Big Red Button

€95.29

Please, do continue.

Corkbah

they dont get an hourly rate it would be a yearly salary (paid weekly/bi-weekly, monthly etc) ... and there is no set amount for "civil service" there are different pay scales and different pay grades in every department.

an office person might start off at €18K but could be earning €24K+ after bonus/expenses are added on so actual annual salary is impossible to break down into hourly pay.

Xenophile

Corkbah wrote: »

they dont get an hourly rate it would be a yearly salary (paid weekly/bi-weekly, monthly etc) ... and there is no set amount for "civil service" there are different pay scales and different pay grades in every department.

an office person might start off at €18K but could be earning €24K+ after bonus/expenses are added on so actual annual salary is impossible to break down into hourly pay.

An hourly rate can be calculated and in the interest of fairness and equity this should be a stated objective.

monflat

Xenophile wrote: »

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

What public servants are you referring to?? advisors to politicians
Hospital cleaners
Hospital catering staff
Dept of marine
Dept of agriculture
All the government dept s
Nursing staff
care assistants
Hospital porters
Grounds maintence
Prison officers
Prison cleaners
Doctors in hospital s
Staff in detention centres

Or are you referring to higher management


All of the above are on different hourly rates .

Corkbah

Xenophile wrote: »

An hourly rate can be calculated and in the interest of fairness and equity this should be a stated objective.

I'm self employed and dont have an hourly rate ... I get paid by the job, it could take 2hours or 10hours and I get paid the same.

There are loads of different types of civil servants why do you think it should be broken down into an hourly rate for each of them ? would you be basing the hourly rate on before expenses/bonuses are added on ? what about holidays .... do you consider the 7days uncertified leave that "some" civil servants treat as holidays in addition to normal holidays (23days I think is national average) ...anyway...do you consider those 7 uncertified days as a benefit in kind or as a holiday ...the civil servants get paid for them....should that time be included in the hourly rate ?

what about the different bonuses some civil servants get that others don't !! (key holding allowance, night shift allowance, working with a dog allowance, clothing allowance etc)

Paulzx

Xenophile wrote: »

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

So you reckon comparing the hourly rate of a checkout operator with say, the head of the Dept of Finance is some sort of valid scientific study of wages?


I don't think so

km79

Xenophile wrote: »

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

How many hours preparatory work do you do each week for the week ahead ? How many hours after work do you do each day looking back over the work from that particular day ? How many of your lunch times are spent training teams ?
Am I allowed include these hours to work out an hourly rate as technically they would not be included as hours I get paid for ?

looksee

7days uncertified leave? I (public service) had to have a doctors cert after 1 day absent, which is almost impossible.

Corkbah

looksee wrote: »

7days uncertified leave? I (public service) had to have a doctors cert after 1 day absent, which is almost impossible.

depends on which area of civil service you are in.

gazzer

Its 7 days uncertified over 2 years now rather than one. It changed last year.

Xenophile

monflat wrote: »

What public servants are you referring to?? advisors to politicians
Hospital cleaners
Hospital catering staff
Dept of marine
Dept of agriculture
All the government dept s
Nursing staff
care assistants
Hospital porters
Grounds maintence
Prison officers
Prison cleaners
Doctors in hospital s
Staff in detention centres

Or are you referring to higher management


All of the above are on different hourly rates .

Yes all of the above and Local Authority,Revenue etc,etc.

Head The Wall

Average Public sector wage is around 48k, divide that by say 1820 (35 x 52) and I'm being generous with those hours and you get an average hourly rate of 26.37

Xenophile

Paulzx wrote: »

So you reckon comparing the hourly rate of a checkout operator with say, the head of the Dept of Finance is some sort of valid scientific study of wages?


I don't think so

I think it is, why not have transparency, then we can draw our own conclusions.The checkout operators taxes v.a.t etc have helped many of the higher paid send their children to 3rd. level education.

Head The Wall

I'm sure we will have people on here deriding the average but when you have clerical officers doing basic work on 35k a year which equates to 20 an hour there is something seriously wrong with the wage levels.

I know a few clerical officers at this level and the work they do does not warrant this wage, this is a role that doesn't even require a leaving cert ffs.

Paulzx

Xenophile wrote: »

I think it is, why not have transparency, then we can draw our own conclusions.The checkout operators taxes v.a.t etc have helped many of the higher paid send their children to 3rd. level education.

It's nothing to do with transparency. If you wish to compare a specific role with another specific role there is merit.

What you have asked for is to possibly compare Bill Gates hourly rate to the person who cleans his office.

It's a suggestion with no merit as it is not a like for like comparsion.

All it does is invite the inevitable comments ( like an earlier one on this thread)that clerical officers jobs are so braindead that an education is not required to do them. Use of crayons is the only prerequisite

Corkbah

Head The Wall wrote: »

I'm sure we will have people on here deriding the average but when you have clerical officers doing basic work on 35k a year which equates to 20 an hour there is something seriously wrong with the wage levels.

I know a few clerical officers at this level and the work they do does not warrant this wage, this is a role that doesn't even require a leaving cert ffs.

do you ever tell the people that you know at this level what you think of the wage they earn ? ...or do you simply complain from behind a keyboard ?

dissed doc

Doctors (newly qualified)
- €14.91/hr. (30,257 per year, 2028 hrs/yr) (Intern)
- 93.6 hrs maximum leave per 6 month period (the HSE only issues 6 month, temporary employee contracts).
- References for the above comes from the HSE information booklet here http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Jobs/Job_Search/Medical_Dental/nchd/Candidateinfo.pdf

Doctors (experienced trainees 5 yrs+ after graduation)
- €24.94/hr (50,578/yr) (Registrar)

Doctors (medical specialists "consultants", 15 yrs+ after graduation)
- €57.30/hr (116,207/yr) (Consultant, Type A)

Head The Wall

dissed doc wrote: »

Doctors
- €14.91/hr. (30,257 per year, 2028 hrs/yr)
- 93.6 hrs maximum leave per 6 month period (the HSE only issues 6 month, temporary employee contracts).
- References for the above comes from the HSE information booklet here http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Jobs/Job_Search/Medical_Dental/nchd/Candidateinfo.pdf

Clerical officers are definitely worth the 20 an hour they get so.

Head The Wall

Paulzx wrote: »

It's a suggestion with no merit as it is not a like for like comparsion.

All it does is invite the inevitable comments ( like an earlier one on this thread)that clerical officers jobs are so braindead that an education is not required to do them. Use of crayons is the only prerequisite

You're the one making that assertion that they are braindead, not me. It's part of the job spec so they are saying that someone with that level of education can succeed at it.

Corkbah wrote: »

do you ever tell the people that you know at this level what you think of the wage they earn ? ...or do you simply complain from behind a keyboard ?

Yes I do, they agree themselves that the jobs they do themselves are a bit pointless and in a few cases unnecessary. Not that it has any relevance to the thread discussion at hand.

Godge

Xenophile wrote: »

I think it is, why not have transparency, then we can draw our own conclusions.The checkout operators taxes v.a.t etc have helped many of the higher paid send their children to 3rd. level education.

What is the point, meaning or relevance of this statement?

Seriously, if you expect a doctor who has spent years in training and education who has a seriously stressful difficult job to get the same hourly rate as a checkout operater, then you are deluded.

twowheelsonly

gazzer wrote: »

Its 7 days uncertified over 2 years now rather than one. It changed last year.

But get to 4 or 5 where I work and the letters start arriving questioning your sick rate!

Xenophile wrote: »

8.65 euro is our hourly minimum wage rate. Forget about telling us about groups that are paid from the public purse in terms of 30k,40k,50k,or 60k. etc per annum. Lets talk about the hourly rate for a better comparison. So when highly paid people are watching the operator checking out their groceries in the supermarket maybe they might reflect on the difference between their hourly wage rates.

Xenophile wrote: »

An hourly rate can be calculated and in the interest of fairness and equity this should be a stated objective.

Head The Wall wrote: »

Average Public sector wage is around 48k, divide that by say 1820 (35 x 52) and I'm being generous with those hours and you get an average hourly rate of 26.37

The problem with that is that again it's another mass generalisation.

It never tells you how many hours were worked, types of hours (o/t, night/Sunday rates etc.)

Take my own case - Lets's say that 48k is my pay. By your calculations 26.37 is my hourly rate. What it fails to mention is that I would have 26 Sundays in there (less a couple on annual leave perhaps), God knows how many Nights, Bank and Public Holidays and other unsocial hours.
Most importantly, it fails to take into account 'Mandatory' (for 95% of our staff) overtime which is now a system of Annualised Hours and works out at an average of 8 hours per week. (Max 360 Hrs Per Year - Paid @ 1.8 BTW)
This is all included in the bottom line when my pay package is published for the world to see but is not broken down as above to provide a clearer insight. Bear in mind that the same general idea applies to Nurses, Gardai, Prison, Fire - in fact all of those in the Frontline that are fighting to protect those allowances which are a major part of core pay IMO.

Just using the Annualised hours brings me up to 47 hours a week so using your analogy I'm now down to €19.63 an hour. Calculating Sundays/Unsocial Hours/Bank Holidays etc gets kinda messy (and I have no intention of even trying !!!!) but will drive this figure down further, which considering the nature of these jobs is no great shakes when compared with many other jobs.

Rightwing

I'm a firm believer that those in the PS should be given more time off. An extra day every 2 weeks. Wouldn't mean anything in terms of productivity, but would boost morale.

Paulzx

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm a firm believer that those in the PS should be given more time off. An extra day every 2 weeks. Wouldn't mean anything in terms of productivity, but would boost morale.

This is getting more bizarre............

Maybe it will save your billion

woodoo

Head The Wall wrote: »

Clerical officers are definitely worth the 20 an hour they get so.

Its nearer 18 and that is the top of the scale which takes 15 years to get to. They start 11. Any of the CO's i know deserve every penny.

fall

The public service and civil service should be treated as two different groups and the pay issues would be a lot easier to clarify. It should never have happened that someone working in an office and someone in the front line are compared.

Wicklowandy

We seem to have a race to the bottom mentality to wages.

Frontline staff earn a wage which allows them live, buy a house, have a family etc, a living income.

It seems some people wont be happy til most public sector workers earn a fiver an hour, and be happy to get it.

And the higher earners feel that of course their profession justifies a staggering salary or 'hourly rate'

Rightwing

Wicklowandy wrote: »

We seem to have a race to the bottom mentality to wages.

Frontline staff earn a wage which allows them live, buy a house, have a family etc, a living income.

It seems some people wont be happy til most public sector workers earn a fiver an hour, and be happy to get it.

And the higher earners feel that of course their profession justifies a staggering salary or 'hourly rate'

That's what will make us competitive.

Silentcorner

Wicklowandy wrote: »

We seem to have a race to the bottom mentality to wages.

That is exactly what we should be doing, we should also being driving down the cost of health care, energy(this would have a huge impact, it would be like a pay increase for every household in the country) anybody ever see the avg salary in ESB or Bord Gais, legal fees

We have a lot more to do to correct our finances, PS is just one albeit an important one

Vizzy

Head The Wall wrote: »

I'm sure we will have people on here deriding the average but when you have clerical officers doing basic work on 35k a year which equates to 20 an hour there is something seriously wrong with the wage levels.

I know a few clerical officers at this level and the work they do does not warrant this wage, this is a role that doesn't even require a leaving cert ffs.

Are these Irish clerical officers or English clerical officers ?

thebman

Can probably work it out from here though its slightly out of date


http://www.impact.ie/Your-Sector/Public-Sector/Civil-Service/Civil-service-salary-scales/Current-salary-scales--2010-/Clerical-officer--Full-PRSI-.htm