Life outside BR

eoferrall · 08-02-2013 9:29pm

corny wrote: »

For me the set piece is the only area of likely superiority for the English. We've much better ball carriers and if i was English i'd be alarmed by the disparity in attacking threat from the 10,12,13 axis.

I've heard a lot about how physical their pack is too but are they really that physical? I mean will POM, SOB and Heaslip lose in any area against Wood, Haskell and Robshaw? They've more to fear for me. I'm delighted Mike Brown is wasted on the wing too.

In short, as always with the English, their bark is worse than their bite and if Ireland build on their performance against Wales they'll win a lot more comfortably then most people suspect. Only problem as i see it is consistency isn't a hallmark of Kidneys team.

Ireland by 13.

this is the part that has me ****ting it. on paper we should win.....

ormond lad · 08-02-2013 10:04pm

corny wrote: »

For me the set piece is the only area of likely superiority for the English. We've much better ball carriers and if i was English i'd be alarmed by the disparity in attacking threat from the 10,12,13 axis.

I've heard a lot about how physical their pack is too but are they really that physical? I mean will POM, SOB and Heaslip lose in any area against Wood, Haskell and Robshaw? They've more to fear for me. I'm delighted Mike Brown is wasted on the wing too.

In short, as always with the English, their bark is worse than their bite and if Ireland build on their performance against Wales they'll win a lot more comfortably then most people suspect. Only problem as i see it is consistency isn't a hallmark of Kidneys team.

Ireland by 13.

There outhalf and centres are not exciting and we know exactly what theyll be doing but its still tough to stop. Theyll try get their pack to keep ball and just try win penalties for farrell to kick which is very similar to how saracens play which is boring.
I dont think we'll win comfortably at all. the game will be a 1 score game.

seanand · 08-02-2013 10:46pm

ormond lad wrote: »

There outhalf and centres are not exciting and we know exactly what theyll be doing but its still tough to stop. Theyll try get their pack to keep ball and just try win penalties for farrell to kick which is very similar to how saracens play which is boring.
I dont think we'll win comfortably at all. the game will be a 1 score game.

agree i think the choke tackle will work wonders because we can play defence narrow because thats where theyll play. the scrum will be a big thing because of it

FewFew · 10-02-2013 8:20pm

Last few minutes of the match was pretty tense, but not as tense as it should have been. Always had that "all we need is one try!" idea, but in the back of my mind, oh, we hadn't shown the form to do what was necessary.

Love looking at predictions in hindsight...

eoferrall wrote: »

Though I have a niggling feeling that if ROG has to come on with any meaningful game time left we will be goosed. I just don't think he has the ability to play in this level a game anymore. his decline has been rapid in my view, and next season could be under serious pressure in Munster to get game time!

ormond lad wrote: »

There outhalf and centres are not exciting and we know exactly what theyll be doing but its still tough to stop. Theyll try get their pack to keep ball and just try win penalties for farrell to kick which is very similar to how saracens play which is boring.
I dont think we'll win comfortably at all. the game will be a 1 score game.

Pretty spot on

What are you thinking in terms of squad now, if Sexton, Healy and Zebo are all out?
(I know Healy hasn't been cited yet, but it's likely)

TheJims · 11-02-2013 11:33am

Fewcifur wrote: »

What are you thinking in terms of squad now, if Sexton, Healy and Zebo are all out?
(I know Healy hasn't been cited yet, but it's likely)

Ill tell ya... that match hurt yesterday! so much was expected, we thought the days of being so inconsistent were gone.. but here we are with a win and a loss, both in questionable circumstances.

going by the second half against Wales, we were lucky to even get the win over there, we played a silly kicking game and got overwhelmed for 40 mins

Then yesterday there was more of the same, it seems so damn easy to defend against Ireland the past few seasons.. LINESPEED.. when teams rush up on us everyone panics and throws silly passes or pointless kicks back to the opposition.

There has to be a better way of combating a rush defense, but ever since the WC QF against wales, any decent organised team has been able to shut us down.

As for Scotland, if Healy, Sexton, Zebo are out, Id like to see Court(1), Keatley(10) (controversial) and Earls (11) start, with Kilcoyne, Madigan and McFadden/Luke Fitz on the bench

seanand · 11-02-2013 12:20pm

id prefer kilcoyne jackson and earls was one of the few decent players the last day.

rog is finished he cant even kick out of hand anymore. everyone in the backs underperformed but then kidney reverted back to type against possible the best pack in the championship and a very good rush defense instead of using chips(wouldnt work with lacking pace and size in the centre) or spread it wide as there wings were the only ones that didnt rush up as they defended our poor kicks then we could kick if they werent sure of us spreading. we just kicked away possession and terrible hands didnt help

corny · 11-02-2013 4:39pm

The English beat us on the drawing board which i suppose is the bitterest pill to swallow.

Their back 3 knew exactly what to expect from the game, where to be at all times and where to put the ball when they had it. Lancaster knew, you get up hard in their faces and cover their kickers and they'll have no answer with Kidney in charge.

A better coached side would have noticed where the English were weak, or less strong shall we say, (maul, short blindside, not enough numbers in the defensive line, chips over the top) and adapted a game plan to suit. They'd have conceded all day at the maul had we really gone after them there. Also, when we kicked the ball it seemed to take the other 14 players by surprise. I lost count of the amount of times we kicked the ball to Goode and he found acres of space because no one had fallen back to cover with Kearney.

The Irish players are not stupid. I suspect they all know Kidney is full of ****e but they're caught between a rock and a hard place wanting to their best for the country, hence the evident frustration. For me it was clear as day uncertainty lead to poor concentration and poor concentration to lead to errors and frustration. Its something that has characterised Kidneys time in charge unfortunately.

FewFew · 11-02-2013 6:02pm

Yeah, we really didn't push home that maul aspect at all. It's nearly school-boy tactics to discover a weakness and then drive it home. Quite odd.

ormond lad · 21-02-2013 11:05pm

Ireland Team to Scotland on Sunday. what do people think?
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/43)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/122)
12 - Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster) *
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/36)
10 - Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) *
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/16)
1 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/64)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/26)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/92)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/25)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/11)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/24)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/54) (capt)
16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/24)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/4)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/4)
19 - Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster/3)
20 - Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster/2)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/127)
23 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster/23)

corny · 22-02-2013 12:05am

As is common with Kidney injuries force his hand in giving players a chance.

Pleased the Ulster boys are finally being recognised.

Tom Court deserves his place with Healy out.

Marshall will make the same impact, on the media at least, that Gilroy made.

Dare i say it, if Jackson has a good game this could be the last time ROG warms the bench. Great for all concerned imo. ROG's legacy has been tarnished enough by recent events.

ormond lad · 22-02-2013 12:13am

corny wrote: »

As is common with Kidney injuries force his hand in giving players a chance.

Pleased the Ulster boys are finally being recognised.

Tom Court deserves his place with Healy out.

Marshall will make the same impact, on the media at least, that Gilroy made.

Dare i say it, if Jackson has a good game this could be the last time ROG warms the bench. Great for all concerned imo. ROG's legacy has been tarnished enough by recent events.

Harsh on Kilcoyne that Court goes straight in to start after Killa subbed the first games but it prob is better as Kilcoyce is better in the loose and better off the bench than Court
Dont think Marshall will make the same impact Gilroy did at all.
Dont think O Garas legacy has been tarnished. He shouldnt have been picked in recent weeks on form but his legacy def hasnt been tarnished.

eoferrall · 22-02-2013 1:05pm

ormond lad wrote: »

Harsh on Kilcoyne that Court goes straight in to start after Killa subbed the first games but it prob is better as Kilcoyce is better in the loose and better off the bench than Court
Dont think Marshall will make the same impact Gilroy did at all.
Dont think O Garas legacy has been tarnished. He shouldnt have been picked in recent weeks on form but his legacy def hasnt been tarnished.

I'd be somewhere between yourself and corny. I think yes ROG hasn't been in great form recently, but i think that is largely due to a slide in abilities. I think if he continues to play he certainly will leave with a sour ending. Much like john hayes, he was played passed where he should have been, but didn't tarnish his status, more there was widespread pity for him. I don't think anyone should go out that way unless injury forced.

I think Marshall is likely to have a solid game, but could jave one or two moments of magic. ever since i saw him in aviva i have been watching him and waiting for this day. he was so far ahead of all others on the pitch that day it was clear.

excited about this team, and i hope they are allowed play their natural game. I am also hoping that the fresh faces rejuvenate the squad and allow them to play a more relaxed game. they didn't look like they were happy/relaxed against england and i think that shone through in the unforced errors. looked like they were trying too hard.

Don't think it is harsh on kilcoyne, it has been harsh court was held as a pariah for the england debacle last year. He has been playing great rugby in the top rabo team by a long way. if anything i thought kilcoyne was lucky to be on bench ahead. but i think that was due to styles, kilcoyne is better to bring on at end of game compared to court due to looser play etc.

FewFew · 22-02-2013 3:06pm

Wow. So happy that ROG isn't starting. Thought Kidney might be bull-headed enough to go with the old reliable, but thankfully he didn't. There's hope yet!

ormond lad · 22-02-2013 3:28pm

eoferrall wrote: »

I'd be somewhere between yourself and corny. I think yes ROG hasn't been in great form recently, but i think that is largely due to a slide in abilities. I think if he continues to play he certainly will leave with a sour ending. Much like john hayes, he was played passed where he should have been, but didn't tarnish his status, more there was widespread pity for him. I don't think anyone should go out that way unless injury forced.

I think Marshall is likely to have a solid game, but could have one or two moments of magic. ever since i saw him in aviva i have been watching him and waiting for this day. he was so far ahead of all others on the pitch that day it was clear.

excited about this team, and i hope they are allowed play their natural game. I am also hoping that the fresh faces rejuvenate the squad and allow them to play a more relaxed game. they didn't look like they were happy/relaxed against england and i think that shone through in the unforced errors. looked like they were trying too hard.

Don't think it is harsh on kilcoyne, it has been harsh court was held as a pariah for the england debacle last year. He has been playing great rugby in the top rabo team by a long way. if anything i thought kilcoyne was lucky to be on bench ahead. but i think that was due to styles, kilcoyne is better to bring on at end of game compared to court due to looser play etc.

I dont think O Gara will leave with a sour ending. He knows himself that he isnt the player he was at his peak. He knows when to go himself
Assume youre talking about opening u20 game in Aviva wrt Marshall. He was one of the top performers that day alongside Gilroy, Jackson when the IRFU picked the 2 provinces traditionally the strongest against the 2 traditional weaker provinces.
It is harsh on Kilcoyne, he was ahead of Court on form and has done nothing wrong to be kept on bench while man he was ahead of is picked in front of him and while yes Court was blamed for the english game when he was played out of position he has been behind Healy and the emergence of a top class young player this season

corny · 22-02-2013 4:07pm

eoferrall wrote: »

excited about this team, and i hope they are allowed play their natural game. I am also hoping that the fresh faces rejuvenate the squad and allow them to play a more relaxed game.

Me too. Madigan, Marshall, BOD would have been more exciting but i'm sure Jackson will do a job.

We should have too much for the Scots but i hope we go after them for the 80. The championship can still be won. If we're ahead at half time and we come out for the second half to defend our lead i'll curse Declan Kidney.......AGAIN.

eoferrall · 22-02-2013 4:36pm

ormond lad wrote: »

I dont think O Gara will leave with a sour ending. He knows himself that he isnt the player he was at his peak. He knows when to go himself
Assume youre talking about opening u20 game in Aviva wrt Marshall. He was one of the top performers that day alongside Gilroy, Jackson when the IRFU picked the 2 provinces traditionally the strongest against the 2 traditional weaker provinces.
It is harsh on Kilcoyne, he was ahead of Court on form and has done nothing wrong to be kept on bench while man he was ahead of is picked in front of him and while yes Court was blamed for the english game when he was played out of position he has been behind Healy and the emergence of a top class young player this season

you'd have thought john hayes was the same, but for one reason or another he stayed on longer tan he should have.
Does it matter that one team was stronger than the other? marshall shone ahead of everyone on the pitch in all facets off the game and has done regularly since then when i've seen him play.

it's your opinion that kilcoyne is in better form than court, but not mine. i'd start court due to being better scrumaging prop. kilcoyne reminds me a lot of cian few years ago. he'll be good and have great fight with cian over that jersey in time.

FewFew · 25-02-2013 1:02am

Well lads, all too sickened to comment?

corny · 25-02-2013 8:36am

Just two words......Sack Kidney

satory · 25-02-2013 8:41am

and 4 more....

Replace Heaslip as captain....

seanand · 25-02-2013 9:22am

which 4 more satory, brain men?

drop heaslip move obrien to 8 and henry when fit to 7 if not id like to keep balance in the backrow maybe odonnell not really any other 7 playing well.

i dont understand the slatting jackson was getting he clearly wasnt picked to kick at goal with the going for the corners and if they had finished there chances they got people be raving about him

corny · 25-02-2013 10:11am

seanand wrote: »

which 4 more satory, brain men?

drop heaslip move obrien to 8 and henry when fit to 7 if not id like to keep balance in the backrow maybe odonnell not really any other 7 playing well.

i dont understand the slatting jackson was getting he clearly wasnt picked to kick at goal with the going for the corners and if they had finished there chances they got people be raving about him

I normally don't get wound up by the sideshow that is RTE rugby coverage but that really irritated me yesterday. They'd nothing positive to say about Jackson from the start and the righteous ****e out of them after the match, when all would have started ROG:eek:, was hard to take.

Rant over.

I thought Jackson was very good with ball in hand and i hope the other muppets in the media focus on that. He's an average kicker but everyone knew that beforehand. If he works hard on that he'll be super player in time to come.

Marshall was excellent too apart from the pass to Gilroy. Not saying he should replace Darcy but he does what Darcy fails to do these days, gets us over the gain line. Amazing power for a young lad.

Heaslip is suffering badly from Kidneys reign. Its sad because i think with a proper structure he'd make a decent captain. If Kidney continues though, perish the thought, he probably shouldn't keep his place never mind the captaincy.

seanand · 25-02-2013 11:07am

kidney has to go alright, marshall has to start ahead of darcy, one bad pass but then again darcy wouldnt have got in that position to pass. still not happy about kilcoyne getting jumped by court as i dont think court is a good enough player for international level.

rog is pass it in my eyes hes 5th choice even the experience head and class is permanent qoutation guys are surely going to give up on him. altough i think jackson is a slightly better player than madigan maybe madigan should of started instead as his place kickings better.

maybe your right about kidneys influence on heaslip but then again he hasnt been great with leinster either. if they were going to replace drico with anyone for captaincy imo it would of been best

eoferrall · 25-02-2013 11:20am

just don't know where to start. yes clearly the plan was to go for tries, which would have worked had our lineout and scrum at least been a reliable source of position on our own ball. time and again we lost lineouts on 5 yard line. infuriating.

Scots could see we weren't kicking and infringed continually unpunished due to it. when we did kick Jackson was poor, missing three from similar positions. Thought he had a good game other than that. how we took to the field with only one place kicker, who was making his debut i'll never understand.

I was so mad after the game. we made several great breaks early on, earls butchered two that you culd say had passbeen giving highly likely try scored. Marshall was a poor pass to gilroy, but debut and played execellently. other breaks weren't followed up with quick play on line and allowed scots realign. so we SHOULD have been three tries up - forget kinking at half time and scotland buried, instead 0-3! try after break should have been nail and we go on to rack up a score. but no we then missed touch and a bizzare penalty against RK later we are facing a resurgent scotish team.

:mad:

corny · 25-02-2013 11:31am

Just to add our forwards, bar SOB, were useless en masse.

Our second rows, O' Mahony and Heaslip carried the ball poorly and with no conviction. Their organisation around Murray was truly awful too. Made all the worse by the fact the Scots were feeble around the fringes. Another badge for the coaches.

eoferrall · 25-02-2013 12:50pm

corny wrote: »

Just to add our forwards, bar SOB, were useless en masse.

Our second rows, O' Mahony and Heaslip carried the ball poorly and with no conviction. Their organisation around Murray was truly awful too. Made all the worse by the fact the Scots were feeble around the fringes. Another badge for the coaches.

on that, there seemed confusion. numerous times you had murray marshaling forwards into position when few seconds prior they had been looking around with confusion. some going to the ruck when alrready won. NONE taking the ball at pace etc. shambles really the more i think about it.

seanand · 25-02-2013 12:58pm

eoferrall wrote: »

NONE taking the ball at pace

this pisses me off more than anything nothing under kidney is ever taking at pace and its even making sob look like a poor carrier. it almost feels like were sent out to make no mistakes which infuriates me as we should be sent out to shine and all

corny · 25-02-2013 4:16pm

Its the way England played for a few years after their WC win. Little pods 5 or 10 metres from the ruck 'running' straight into defenders and not space. Its a waste of time as it accomplishes nothing. The fringe defence always wins.

Funny thing is using SOB to run at shoulders further out in midfield would seem so obvious. The man is a brute in broken field yet we ask him to run into rushing props and second rows to gain half a metre.

FewFew · 25-02-2013 5:32pm

eoferrall wrote: »

how we took to the field with only one place kicker, who was making his debut i'll never understand.

I was so mad after the game. we made several great breaks early on, earls butchered two that you culd say had passbeen giving highly likely try scored. Marshall was a poor pass to gilroy, but debut and played execellently. other breaks weren't followed up with quick play on line and allowed scots realign. so we SHOULD have been three tries up - forget kinking at half time and scotland buried, instead 0-3! try after break should have been nail and we go on to rack up a score. but no we then missed touch and a bizzare penalty against RK later we are facing a resurgent scotish team.

:mad:

The lack of back-up kicker was so silly. I didn't realise Jackson wasn't a first choice kicker type.

Also the Earls bits doesn't seem to be have dwelled on enough by the media, at least the bits I've seen/heard. Seems like day 1 of winger-school to pass the ball inside you when you've the opposition drawn to you. Felt a bit of a glory hog move, either that or just a complete lack of thought. You could see it on BOD's face, that second fudge-up was going to be a try and there was no reason not to pass inside.

Sure, if we get the wooden spoon, maybe it'll finally be enough to get rid of Kidney, though I wouldn't be surprised. Was chatting to a housemate about it and he started trotting out the whole "most successful Irish coach" lark, so he still has his believers.

ormond lad · 25-02-2013 9:07pm

corny wrote: »

Just two words......Sack Kidney

Replace him with who though?
His time is up but some of the rubbish being posted about him is well ott.

seanand wrote: »

which 4 more satory, brain men?

drop heaslip move obrien to 8 and henry when fit to 7 if not id like to keep balance in the backrow maybe odonnell not really any other 7 playing well.

i dont understand the slating jackson was getting he clearly wasnt picked to kick at goal with the going for the corners and if they had finished there chances they got people be raving about him

If Jackson wasnt picked to kick at goal who was to kick the goals if we needed scores in a tight game as the game was expected to be?
Why was he picked then?
I dont think Heaslip should be dropped esp if it meant o Brien at 8. Think SOB is much more effective on the flank.

corny wrote: »

I normally don't get wound up by the sideshow that is RTE rugby coverage but that really irritated me yesterday. They'd nothing positive to say about Jackson from the start and the righteous ****e out of them after the match, when all would have started ROG:eek:, was hard to take. Rant over.
I thought Jackson was very good with ball in hand and i hope the other muppets in the media focus on that. He's an average kicker but everyone knew that beforehand. If he works hard on that he'll be super player in time to come.
Marshall was excellent too apart from the pass to Gilroy. Not saying he should replace Darcy but he does what Darcy fails to do these days, gets us over the gain line. Amazing power for a young lad.
Heaslip is suffering badly from Kidneys reign. Its sad because i think with a proper structure he'd make a decent captain. If Kidney continues though, perish the thought, he probably shouldn't keep his place never mind the captaincy.

Jackson and kicking highlights a problem in Irish rugby. Why do players who dont play at 10 at pro level who can kick goals and did so underage not keep kicking at the top level. Conor Murray kicked at underage levels and has kicked at AIL level, Kearney is a decent kicker. Why do either of them not kick at pro level?
I dont think Heaslip is suffering from Kidneys reign. He is playing poor,

seanand wrote: »

kidney has to go alright, marshall has to start ahead of darcy, one bad pass but then again darcy wouldnt have got in that position to pass. still not happy about kilcoyne getting jumped by court as i dont think court is a good enough player for international level.

rog is pass it in my eyes hes 5th choice even the experience head and class is permanent qoutation guys are surely going to give up on him. altough i think jackson is a slightly better player than madigan maybe madigan should of started instead as his place kickings better.

maybe your right about kidneys influence on heaslip but then again he hasnt been great with leinster either. if they were going to replace drico with anyone for captaincy imo it would of been best

Court is good enough for International rugby. We have 3 decent looseheads and with Healy as undisputed top dog there is a great fight between killer and court for the bench spot when all are available.
ROG is 36 in 2 weeks time so of course he will not be as good as he was. There is not many people playing pro rugby at 36 and nearly all who are are forwards where their weaknesses can be hidden much more than 10.
Harsh to say "even the experience head and class is permanent qoutation guys are surely going to give up on him". He'll still be remembered for his roles in winning munster h cups, ireland triple crowns, grand slam

seanand · 25-02-2013 11:25pm

ormond lad wrote: »

Replace him with who though?
His time is up but some of the rubbish being posted about him is well ott.

schmidt and conor oshea are the likely candidates

If Jackson wasnt picked to kick at goal who was to kick the goals if we needed scores in a tight game as the game was expected to be?
Why was he picked then?
Jackson and kicking highlights a problem in Irish rugby. Why do players who dont play at 10 at pro level who can kick goals and did so underage not keep kicking at the top level. Conor Murray kicked at underage levels and has kicked at AIL level, Kearney is a decent kicker. Why do either of them not kick at pro level

i mean he was picked and they clearly knew not to back him for the kicks at goal and i dont know why kearney wasnt practicing during the two weeks as he has kicked at a highish level would of also taking the pressure off jackson.

I dont think Heaslip should be dropped esp if it meant o Brien at 8. Think SOB is much more effective on the flank. I dont think Heaslip is suffering from Kidneys reign. He is playing poor

you kinda contradict yourself here saying he is poor but shouldnt be dropped. think Sob would be more effective and more usefull than on the flank, plus chris henry is a fine openside

Court is good enough for International rugby. We have 3 decent looseheads and with Healy as undisputed top dog there is a great fight between killer and court for the bench spot when all are available.
ROG is 36 in 2 weeks time so of course he will not be as good as he was. There is not many people playing pro rugby at 36 and nearly all who are are forwards where their weaknesses can be hidden much more than 10.
Harsh to say "even the experience head and class is permanent qoutation guys are surely going to give up on him". He'll still be remembered for his roles in winning munster h cups, ireland triple crowns, grand slam

court is havnt a good season maybe not good enough for internation level but i def believe the killer has passed him out into 2nd place.

yes and i will never forget the good times as a munster man but it is sad to see the shell of the player he was still play on, and i def dont believe older players can be played in the forwards and hidden easier

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