Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

24-02-2013 10:57PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Well it won't be from Leo Veradkar anyway as he says he has been cut enough. A very spoiled teenager is our Leo.:D
I think they should raise the Corporate Tax rate. They won't run away for 1.5/2%
I am sure they would get the magical 1 Billion from that.
Cut CB from families earning over 80k or thereabouts too.
Pay Free Legal Aid only to people who have been found "Not Guilty", Charge the others the legal fees and see the crime rates drop too.
Half the number of TD's as this country is too small to pay for 166 parasites and 60 Senators. Stop the Quangos etc etc.
There are loads of ways to get a Billion but our spoiled Government just want to do the handy things.

That would all have to happen + the 1 billion from the PS + Social welfare cuts plus more.

That doesn't mean that these PS cuts should not happen, the employer is bankrupt. People need to face the reality of where we are and where we will be.

Rightwing · 24-02-2013 10:57PM

Focus on the talks, it's gone off on tangents. Too much sniping.

ardmacha · 24-02-2013 10:58PM

How many public sector workers have seen a 15% paycut with no increments?

How many do you think. 50,000? 100,000?

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:58PM

van_beano wrote: »

Again the person you're referring to there is the Sgt in Dun Laoghaire and not your young Garda rank member with less than 10 years service. Try and stay on point please.

the 56k excl overtime covers all ranks as was stated on the pat kenny show on friday , no one said new entrants were on that kind of money , the sgt from the paper story is on over 70 k

Scofflaw · 24-02-2013 10:58PM

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

well this is all getting very hysterical

Isn't it, though? There's some infractions to be handed out here, and probably a couple of bans. I'll work through in order of egregiousness, and it may take a little time - I would that suggest anyone who wants to keep posting on this thread keep their handbag out of the fight.

moderately,
Scofflaw

History Queen · 24-02-2013 10:58PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Focus on the talks, it's gone off on tangents. Too much sniping.

Very true... Any update since???

Gumbo · 24-02-2013 10:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That would all have to happen + the 1 billion from the PS + Social welfare cuts plus more.

That doesn't mean that these PS cuts should not happen, the employer is bankrupt. People need to face the reality of where we are and where we will be.

We are not bankrupt. We are in a long term loan agreement. I have a mortgage, I am not bankrupt.

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That would all have to happen + the 1 billion from the PS + Social welfare cuts plus more.

That doesn't mean that these PS cuts should not happen, the employer is bankrupt. People need to face the reality of where we are and where we will be.

So you want the cuts anyway regardless of anything else.
I reckon I was right all along then.

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 11:00PM

van_beano wrote: »

I think what people are missing aswell is the sad fact that some members of the Gardai (I don't know about any other workers) are sleeping in their cars in between shifts as they can't afford to put fuel into their car to make their journey home.

seeing as you appear to have bought that union concocted sh1te , ive some magic beans you might be interested in

Stheno · 24-02-2013 11:01PM

ardmacha wrote: »

How many do you think. 50,000? 100,000?

I'd estimate probably about the top 20% in the public sector, but don't have figures, and am not inclined to look those up.

If you've figures that you want to quote I'd be interested to see them.

van_beano · 24-02-2013 11:01PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

the 56k excl overtime covers all ranks as was stated on the pat kenny show on friday , no one said new entrants were on that kind of money , the sgt from the paper story is on over 70 k

Pat Kenny show got it wrong, refer to link again
http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml

Scofflaw · 24-02-2013 11:01PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

not your call but you racked up another brownie point with your report , good boardsie, you,l make a mod some day soon

Yeah, you're really not contributing anything, are you? Plus, maybe next time make it less obvious you're a re-reg.

Banned.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Rightwing · 24-02-2013 11:02PM

History Queen wrote: »

Very true... Any update since???

As far as I know 4 unions have pulled out this evening, def 2 (IMO and IMNO) and some poster here said 2 others.

Stheno · 24-02-2013 11:03PM

Rightwing wrote: »

As far as I know 4 unions have pulled out this evening, def 2 (IMO and IMNO) and some poster here said 2 others.

CPSU and UNITE

van_beano · 24-02-2013 11:03PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

seeing as you appear to have bought that union concocted sh1te , ive some magic beans you might be interested in

Don't think I've ever heard the unions mention anything about Gardai sleeping in cars.

Gumbo · 24-02-2013 11:03PM

Rightwing wrote: »

As far as I know 4 unions have pulled out this evening, def 2 (IMO and IMNO) and some poster here said 2 others.

Yep, 4 so far.........

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0224/369295-croke-park-agreement/

Stheno · 24-02-2013 11:06PM

van_beano wrote: »

Don't think I've ever heard the unions mention anything about Gardai sleeping in cars.

I *think* this was a reference to the Garda who sends his kids to private school

History Queen · 24-02-2013 11:06PM

Rightwing wrote: »

As far as I know 4 unions have pulled out this evening, def 2 (IMO and IMNO) and some poster here said 2 others.

Has anything been said by either of the teacher's unions? (I'm on a bus travelling at the moment trying to keep up to date with talks)

24-02-2013 11:06PM

tayto lover wrote: »

So you want the cuts anyway regardless of anything else.
I reckon I was right all along then.

The talks are just one part of several things that have to and will happen over the next two years.

PS: A bit less of the persecution complex....:rolleyes:

noodler · 24-02-2013 11:10PM

kceire wrote: »

We are not bankrupt. We are in a long term loan agreement. I have a mortgage, I am not bankrupt.

Jesus Christ.

That is absolutely awful, unrealistic nonsense.

Our "mortgage" is actually the largest deficit in the Euro Zone and is funded by loans which depend on us balacing the budget.

Less of that sort warped logic please.

Rightwing · 24-02-2013 11:10PM

History Queen wrote: »

Has anything been said by either of the teacher's unions? (I'm on a bus travelling at the moment trying to keep up to date with talks)

No, haven't heard anything from them, looks like teachers will lose supervision payments and 2 extra hours work.

But other posters here probably are more up to date than I am.

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 11:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The talks are just one part of several things that have to and will happen over the next two years.

PS: A bit less of the persecution complex....:rolleyes:

No persecution complex at all. I am not effected by these talks at all but i want to see a degree of fairness and less spite.

24-02-2013 11:12PM

kceire wrote: »

We are not bankrupt. We are in a long term loan agreement. I have a mortgage, I am not bankrupt.

Your not bankrupt because you have an asset against the mortgage.

Ireland is bankrupt but has money only because Europe and the IMF see it in there interest not to have us default. However our mortgage as you call it continues to increase, another 12 Billion this year.

Stheno · 24-02-2013 11:13PM

Stheno wrote: »

I *think* this was a reference to the Garda who sends his kids to private school

Sorry I was wrong, he walks to work rather than use the car.

History Queen wrote: »

Has anything been said by either of the teacher's unions? (I'm on a bus travelling at the moment trying to keep up to date with talks)

No they have not yet said they have left the talks.

I *think* having given some thought to it, that I'd be happy to see a 39 hour week introduced across the board, with no paycuts.

I'd couple that with a voluntary redundancy scheme, as increasing from what ever the current working week is to 39 hours across the board should reduce the amount of people to cover tasks. If the voluntary scheme doesn't attract enough participants, I'd suggest compulsory, with those based on the worst performers being phased out.

I'd also like to see performance management introduced properly, and with greater enforcement, I read a report last year suggesting that the majority of public sector workers under performance management were achieving high scores, apply a proper bell curve and reduce one's entitlement to increments unless in a 1/2 level out of five, with the 5s being put on a warning that they are at risk of losing their jobs.

Also take a look at what happened in the Health Service in NI when they consolidated their 26 or so trusts into five, and had to restructure, surely that can be done here too?

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 11:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Your not bankrupt because you have an asset against the mortgage.

Ireland is bankrupt but has money only because Europe and the IMF see it in there interest not to have us default. However our mortgage as you call it continues to increase, another 12 Billion this year.

Didn't they make us cover 42% of the European banking Debt as against the Germans 1.5%.
They are not without fault in all this.
The Irish people bailed out Europe.

Rightwing · 24-02-2013 11:19PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't they make us cover 42% of the European banking Debt as against the Germans 1.5%.
They are not without fault in all this.
The Irish people bailed out Europe.

Our government guaranteed the banks' debts. No one else. We had our chances to let these banks fail and we blew it. But that aside, we are still borrowing over €1bln a month just to pay the bills. That can't go on.

Now, I do agree, welfare, corporation tax etc should also be looked at, not just the PS.

noodler · 24-02-2013 11:20PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't they make us cover 42% of the European banking Debt as against the Germans 1.5%.
They are not without fault in all this.
The Irish people bailed out Europe.

They didn't no.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2013/02/deficit-debt-and-expenditure-impacting.html

Scofflaw · 24-02-2013 11:21PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't they make us cover 42% of the European banking Debt as against the Germans 1.5%.
They are not without fault in all this.
The Irish people bailed out Europe.

I'm afraid that claim is utter nonsense, based on extremely tortured use of statistics. The Germans have put €290bn into their bailout, multiples of ours, which is hardly surprising.

The 42% claim is from the Unions' economist Michael Taft, and is based on measuring only those parts of bailouts which are classified as 'capital transfers' as opposed to 'financial transactions'. Our bailout isn't the largest in Europe - I honestly don't know how anyone could believe it is - but it contains the largest 'capital transfer' portion, the promissory notes. Taft measured only that bit of the bailouts when "comparing" them. Claiming that the comparison is "from Eurostat" as Taft and then Cahill did was particularly dishonest/lazy (respectively) - an honest claim would have been "based on extremely partial use of Eurostat figures to tell a misleading story".

You really shouldn't just swallow these figures, particularly when they're so clearly unbelievable in the first place. We didn't "bail out Europe" - we couldn't even afford to bail out 6 Irish banks without help.

regards,
Scofflaw

Chucky the tree · 24-02-2013 11:23PM

van_beano wrote: »

Again the person you're referring to there is the Sgt in Dun Laoghaire and not your young Garda rank member with less than 10 years service. Try and stay on point please.

This thread is not about members with less than 10 years experience and you didn't specify that in your posts.

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 11:24PM

noodler wrote: »

They didn't no.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2013/02/deficit-debt-and-expenditure-impacting.html

A great deal of the borrowed money went to prop-up the banks which are Private Sector.
That article is a journalists point of view too, i have read opposing views.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/banking-crisis-bill-ireland-755464-Jan2013/

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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