Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:01PM

murphaph wrote: »

These people have bills and mortgages to pay at the end of the month as well. Not turning up for work will not be an option for many.

Where are the soaring profits by the way?

Perhaps they will not pay their bills or mortgages. Now that would be something. I would certainly feed my family with whatever I had saved before i'd pay a bill or mortgage.

Loads of companies made profits in the last number of years
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/construction-company-crh-made-profit-of-e700-million-in-2011-367884-Feb2012/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1201/1224327340731.html

http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/businessinireland2009/

van_beano · 24-02-2013 10:05PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Exactly.

A big problem here is the unions bullied the last government into submission, now they think they can do the same. For everyones sake, let's hope common sense prevails and they reach a sensible agreement.

A sensible conclusion? To leave every Nurse, Fire Fighter, Garda, Prison Officer etc homeless?

Manach · 24-02-2013 10:05PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Loads of companies made profits in the last number of years

Very good to know and thanks for link, but they keep (some private sector employers) playing the recession card to keep the wages at steady and increasing the hours. A direct quote from one manager, "You have to put in 60h per week to progress in this Co."

Stheno · 24-02-2013 10:07PM

van_beano wrote: »

A sensible conclusion? To leave every Nurse, Fire Fighter, Garda, Prison Officer etc homeless?

How would every nurse, fire fighter, garda and prison officer end up homeless?

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:07PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, have you taken a poll of everyone to arrive at this conclusion?

No poll but I have heard the opinions of a lot of people I meet daily.
By the way I work in the Private Sector and the vast majority of the people I work with and socialize with do not want to see nurses, teachers, garda, firemen etc strike. They fully support them.

Gumbo · 24-02-2013 10:08PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

how is that strange ?

Usually they sensationalise PS salaries, but in this case agree that what the government are looking for is OTT.

tayto lover wrote: »

Perhaps they will not pay their bills or mortgages. Now that would be something. I would certainly feed my family with whatever I had saved before i'd pay a bill or mortgage.

Loads of companies made profits in the last number of years
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/construction-company-crh-made-profit-of-e700-million-in-2011-367884-Feb2012/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/1201/1224327340731.html

http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/businessinireland2009/

+1

I said this on these forums before, the moment they cut too far I will pay for my basic needs and pay my mortgage with what's left. Whether that's the required amount or not I don't car.

I took my mortgage off direct debit after the last round of cuts and I now pay by manual bank transfer every pay day, so I will control how much they get.

On another hand, expect more OPF claims, FIS claims etc and the cost of these claims will erode some of the pay cuts.

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:12PM

kceire wrote: »

Usually they sensationalise PS salaries, but in this case agree that what the government are looking for is OTT.

+1

I said this on these forums before, the moment they cut too far I will pay for my basic needs and pay my mortgage with what's left. Whether that's the required amount or not I don't car.

I took my mortgage off direct debit after the last round of cuts and I now pay by manual bank transfer every pay day, so I will control how much they get.

On another hand, expect more OPF claims, FIS claims etc and the cost of these claims will erode some of the pay cuts.

rte is overwhelmingly pro public sector, why else would they attach such importance to every little detail of union - goverment negotiations, you would think croke park 2 was WW3 such is the level of seriousness from ingrid miley

apparently the whole thing is worthy of top of the hour news every day this past month

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:13PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

rte is overwhelmingly pro public sector, why else would they attach such importance to every little detail of union - goverment negotiations, you would think croke park 2 was WW3 such is the level of seriousness from ingrid miley

apparently the whole thing is worthy of top of the hour news every day this past month

Welcome to Boards

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:14PM

tayto lover wrote: »

No poll but I have heard the opinions of a lot of people I meet daily.
By the way I work in the Private Sector and the vast majority of the people I work with and socialize with do not want to see nurses, teachers, garda, firemen etc strike. They fully support them.

the majority of people are unaware of how much guards make

Paulzx · 24-02-2013 10:14PM

murphaph wrote: »

These people have bills and mortgages to pay at the end of the month as well. Not turning up for work will not be an option for many.

?

But this is exactly why they are willing to not turn up for work. When the last 2 paycuts were imposed many workers(not all) could still pay their bills etc. with what was left.

This time it's different. A lot more people are on the edge. They haven't the cash at the moment to cover evreything so another cut will destroy them. Consequently they have nothing to lose by militant action. When you back people into a corner with no escape they react badly

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:15PM

Paulzx wrote: »

But this is exactly why they are willing to not turn up for work. When the last 2 paycuts were imposed many workers(not all) could still pay their bills etc. with what was left.

This time it's different. A lot more people are on the edge. They haven't the cash at the moment to cover evreything so another cut will destroy them. Consequently they have nothing to lose by militant action. When you back people into a corner with no escape they react badly

pure spin, the vast majority of nurses and guards are nowhere close to poverty

Gumbo · 24-02-2013 10:16PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

the majority of people are unaware of how much guards make

Most people don't care what a guard earns, as long as they are there when you need them, that's what counts.

oscar_statue wrote: »

pure spin, the vast majority of nurses and guards are nowhere close to poverty

How do you know?

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:18PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

the majority of people are unaware of how much guards make

No they are not. Their pay scales are easy to find as are all Public Sector workers.
The people actually don't seem to give a damn what they earn as long as they are there when they need them. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
When i go in to hospital for a procedure i want the best nurses and doctors there and to get that you have to pay them. No good training our nurses to work abroad.

road_high · 24-02-2013 10:20PM

kceire wrote: »

Most people don't care what a guard earns, as long as they are there when you need them, that's what counts.

How do you know?

Well I do. The country is running a very large deficit still and the money to pay them and the PS does not grow on trees (despite the impression given here). We are borrowing just to pay wages/social welfare here. This cannot go on...it's that simple. I'm surprised it's only €1 billion considering the deficit is €12!!
We just cannot afford wages and services at any price just because they are neccessary public goods.

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:21PM

kceire wrote: »

Most people don't care what a guard earns, as long as they are there when you need them, that's what counts.

How do you know?

because a 50 k plus salary is enough to fend off poverty unless you made investments in the past which relied on a permanent floor under incomes

as for not caring what a a guard earns , would you be ok if the average guard was on 112 k per year instead of 56k ( excl overtime) ?

UrbanFret · 24-02-2013 10:22PM

Like everything else in life you get what you pay for. If this government are intent on forcing cuts to front line services then the standard of these services will drop accordingly. Most countries are proud of their emergency services , ours are trying to see can they do without one!:mad:

van_beano · 24-02-2013 10:24PM

Stheno wrote: »

How would every nurse, fire fighter, garda and prison officer end up homeless?

Well with a €170 a week paycut I would imagine not many bills would get paid including mortgage or rent. Ara sure they can always move back home I suppose.

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:24PM

UrbanFret wrote: »

Like everything else in life you get what you pay for. If this government are intent on forcing cuts to front line services then the standard of these services will drop accordingly. Most countries are proud of their emergency services , ours are trying to see can they do without one!:mad:

Yes and the politicians will do what they always do when they get sick, head for the U.S.
Time for me to generalize now

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:25PM

UrbanFret wrote: »

Like everything else in life you get what you pay for. If this government are intent on forcing cuts to front line services then the standard of these services will drop accordingly. Most countries are proud of their emergency services , ours are trying to see can they do without one!:mad:

if most countries are so proud of their nurses and police, why do they pay them less than ours

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:26PM

road_high wrote: »

Well I do. The country is running a very large deficit still and the money to pay them and the PS does not grow on trees (despite the impression given here). We are borrowing just to pay wages/social welfare here. This cannot go on...it's that simple. I'm surprised it's only €1 billion considering the deficit is €12!!
We just cannot afford wages and services at any price just because they are neccessary public goods.

Which country's Public Sector makes a profit again? I keep forgetting.

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:26PM

van_beano wrote: »

Well with a €170 a week paycut I would imagine not many bills would get paid including mortgage or rent. Ara sure they can always move back home I suppose.

170 euro a week paycut might be a lot to someone on 20 k per year , it isnt for someone earning 65 k

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:27PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

if most countries are so proud of their nurses and police, why do they pay them less than ours

Lower cost of living?

murphaph · 24-02-2013 10:27PM

kceire wrote: »

Most people don't care what a guard earns, as long as they are there when you need them, that's what counts.

Replace "Guard" with AA man, shop assistant, McDonald's Drive Thru dude. Do you care what the checkout operator in Lidl earns when you go shopping there? No, and why should you? It's not your concern.

Gumbo · 24-02-2013 10:29PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

if most countries are so proud of their nurses and police, why do they pay them less than ours

Gardai are highly regarded in the USA and Australia and New Zealand. All you have to do is go look at the advertisements for law enforcement over there. They pay more and hence the countries get a better service.

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:30PM

murphaph wrote: »

Replace "Guard" with AA man, shop assistant, McDonald's Drive Thru dude. Do you care what the checkout operator in Lidl earns when you go shopping there? No, and why should you? It's not your concern.

I am very worried about McDonald's Drive Thru dude, I know him. He deserves a rise in my opinion.

oscar_statue · 24-02-2013 10:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Lower cost of living?

red herring, besides the cost of living in the south east of england is higher than in ireland yet police and nurses are paid less

ditto teachers in finland , finland is much more expensive than ireland

the cost of living is the same for everyone in ireland , their is no automatic link between cost of living and wages

canada has traditionally been more expensive than the usa yet wages were higher in america

road_high · 24-02-2013 10:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Which country's Public Sector makes a profit again? I keep forgetting.

What has this got to do with anything? Ridiculous post. We should be trying to live within our means rather than borrowing these enormous sums yearly. No one ever mentioned a country making "profit". Except you of course, trying to scew the sad reality of how much we are living beyond our means. It's preposterious. However matching our spending to revenue is sensible and is something we have to do. Hence the needed reductions in all PS spending.

fall · 24-02-2013 10:31PM

oscar_statue wrote: »

pure spin, the vast majority of nurses and guards are nowhere close to poverty

Public sector worker who bought in the last ten years, tax relief at source ended early, variable mortgage that is constantly increasing, gas and esb bills and cost of living increasing generally with pay cuts, cut to Prsi threshold in last budget, increased USC, pension levy etc etc etc
And you think they might not be close to poverty? Throw in child care and petrol usage. Wages and spending power has been decimated. How can these people now factor in a household and water charge. What planet are you on. They need to stimulate the economy. What happens to the private sector when the public sector stops spending. They are grinding this country to a halt. We should be united against the government. All I can say is shame on you.

tayto lover · 24-02-2013 10:31PM

kceire wrote: »

Gardai are highly regarded in the USA and Australia and New Zealand. All you have to do is go look at the advertisements for law enforcement over there. They pay more and hence the countries get a better service.

Our nurses are very much sought after too. Big pay in other countries.

Farmer Pudsey · 24-02-2013 10:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

No they are not. Their pay scales are easy to find as are all Public Sector workers.
The people actually don't seem to give a damn what they earn as long as they are there when they need them. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
When i go in to hospital for a procedure i want the best nurses and doctors there and to get that you have to pay them. No good training our nurses to work abroad.

Payscales of guards bear no reality to what they earn. They have allowances that they all recieve and as well they have overtime. This statement that we get about paying peanuts and getting monkeys is a silly statement.

Our PS is higher paid than most countries in europe and yes we have higher costs however this effects the private sector as well. We cannot afford these pay rates now and even if there is industrial action the government will press ahead as this is a trioka imposed action.

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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