Unpopular Opinions.

krudler · 23-02-2013 06:55PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When you go to school for 15 odd years and can't put 2 sentences together in Irish then you have to question Teachers wages.

Not just them but also certin other jobs.

It's that Irish is horribly, horribly taught in schools, the cirriculum is decades out of date, pigeon phrases to get you through your oral exams and looking out for words you'll recognise without knowing what the rest of the sentence means.

Irish shouldn't be compulsory, it'd be nice to know it fluently but in a global scale its useless, its spoken by a tiny percentage of a country that has less people in it than most major European cities.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 06:59PM

Rasheed wrote: »

I don't agree with the blaming teachers altogether, but he has a point that after 15 years of schooling, we should have a high fluency of Irish.

Nearly every child hates learning it and it really needs to be looked at. I've a few primary school teacher friends and they can't even get excited about teaching it, how is a child suppose to get a desire to learn it? It's a pity, I still think it's a lovely language, although quite useless in the global scale.

It's bull****, sorry.

The probelm is the syallabus, and the fact that it puts too much priority on literature and not actually learnign how to communicate in it, as weel as social factors, such as lack of outlets.

Everything in your second paragraph points at this.

Also, if teachers wages are the problem, how do you explain the fact that most primary school kids are a lot stronger in other subjects, despite having the same tecaher?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 07:01PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No, that is not what I am saying which is massively unfair to put words into people mouth, but thanks for trying.

My apologies "overpaid" dossers would probably have been more accurate. If not , then you too can explain to my how primary kids manage to learn other things from the same teachers? And how reducing wages would improve standards in Irish specifically?

0ph0rce0 · 23-02-2013 07:17PM

Today's Unpopular Opinion.

Not being allowed to talk about safes

That is all.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-02-2013 07:24PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

My apologies "overpaid" dossers would probably have been more accurate. If not , then you too can explain to my how primary kids manage to learn other things from the same teachers? And how reducing wages would improve standards in Irish specifically?

Care to explain where I mentioned the word "Dosser"?

Never said that.

Stop putting words into peoples mouths. Its little immature.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 07:32PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Care to explain where I mentioned the word "Dosser"?

Never said that.

Stop putting words into peoples mouths. Its little immature.

You said they weren't earnign their wages, did you not? What's the difference?

December2012 · 23-02-2013 07:37PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When you go to school for 15 odd years and can't put 2 sentences together in Irish then you have to question Teachers wages.

Not just them but also certin other jobs.

Or spell in English?

Not the teachers fault - I blame the parents who don't foster or back up what's taught in school.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-02-2013 07:45PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You said they weren't earnign their wages, did you not? What's the difference?

Its not just Irish though. In my opinion certain other subjects like English are poorly taught too.

December2012 wrote: »

Or spell in English?

Not the teachers fault - I blame the parents who don't foster or back up what's taught in school.

Maybe even where to place a full stop;)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 07:57PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its not just Irish though. In my opinion certain other subjects like English are poorly taught too.

Then why did you specify Irish? I put it to you that it's because Irish is failing and you thought that would make teachers look worse? (And that's not putting words into your mouth!)

The idea that you are now trying to put the blame for the alleged poor teaching of all subjects (which isn't even the case) at the teachers' door really only strengthens the idea that you think teachers are overpaid "dossers".

Rasheed · 23-02-2013 08:00PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It's bull****, sorry.

The probelm is the syallabus, and the fact that it puts too much priority on literature and not actually learnign how to communicate in it, as weel as social factors, such as lack of outlets.

Everything in your second paragraph points at this.

Also, if teachers wages are the problem, how do you explain the fact that most primary school kids are a lot stronger in other subjects, despite having the same tecaher?

What's bullshiit?

I think the syllabus has too much emphasis on the literary side of Irish but you can't go completely to the other side either. It needs to be a happy balance. A new lease of life needs to be injected into Irish, if its going to be taught at all. This goes for both teachers and students. The days of hammering verbs into students are over.

As regarding the teachers salary, I never mentioned in my post so I don't get what point you're trying to make.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 08:05PM

Rasheed wrote: »

What's bullshiit?

I think the syllabus has too much emphasis on the literary side of Irish but you can't go completely to the other side either. It needs to be a happy balance. A new lease of life needs to be injected into Irish, if its going to be taught at all. This goes for both teachers and students. The days of hammering verbs into students are over.

As regarding the teachers salary, I never mentioned in my post so I don't get what point you're trying to make.

His opinion, and the idea that the teachers are to blame for failing Irish standards (your opening line).

Mardy Bum · 23-02-2013 08:07PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I wouldn't question the wages as such. Teaching done properly is a very difficult job which requires real dedication. The good teachers deserve what they get.

I would make it a lot harder to qualify to teach, at primary and secondary level though. Too many teachers qualify without really knowing their area or how to teach and manage young people, or all of the above.
I've met quite a few primary teachers in particular who have just been plain stupid, giving the good ones a bad name.

Its going to take 5 years to get a B.ed (secondary) soon and the PDE is going to take 2 years on top of an undergraduate degree.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-02-2013 08:10PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Then why did you specify Irish? I put it to you that it's because Irish is failing and you thought that would make teachers look worse? (And that's not putting words into your mouth!)

The idea that you are now trying to put the blame for the alleged poor teaching of all subjects (which isn't even the case) at the teachers' door really only strengthens the idea that you think teachers are overpaid "dossers".

I dont know what to say. I really dont.

You really are trying to clutch onto this "Dosser" word. Why? I dont have any idea.

I would have no problem discussing this, but you seem to be looking for argument and for that reason I am out.

and yes you still are putting words into my mouth.

space_man · 23-02-2013 08:17PM

poor people are poor because they are not very clever.
i know this to be true. you only have to talk to any poor person to realise it.

jaffacakesyum · 23-02-2013 08:51PM

space_man wrote: »

poor people are poor because they are not very clever.
i know this to be true. you only have to talk to any poor person to realise it.

You must be poor so

:P

dizzywizlw · 23-02-2013 08:53PM

space_man wrote: »

poor people are poor because they are not very clever.
i know this to be true. you only have to talk to any poor person to realise it.

Other way around...

Rasheed · 23-02-2013 09:07PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

His opinion, and the idea that the teachers are to blame for failing Irish standards (your opening line).

My opening line is bullshiit?

Annasopra · 23-02-2013 09:08PM

space_man wrote: »

poor people are poor because they are not very clever.
i know this to be true. you only have to talk to any poor person to realise it.

Define poor?

The Dagda · 23-02-2013 09:10PM

space_man wrote: »

poor people are poor because they are not very clever.
i know this to be true. you only have to talk to any poor person to realise it.

You don't even have to talk to you to realise you're not very clever. Your ignorant attention seeking posts in various threads are confirmation enough.

mikemac1 · 23-02-2013 09:11PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Define poor?

Here you go
Straight from Combat Poverty

In Ireland, 11 basic items are used to construct the deprivation index:

Without heating at some stage in the last year
Unable to afford a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight
Unable to afford two pairs of strong shoes
Unable to afford a roast once a week
Unable to afford a meal with meat, chicken or fish every second day
Unable to afford new (not second-hand) clothes
Unable to afford a warm waterproof coat
Unable to afford to keep the home adequately warm
Unable to afford to replace any worn out furniture
Unable to afford to have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
Unable to afford to buy presents for family or friends at least once a year

http://www.combatpoverty.ie/povertyinireland/measuringpoverty.htm

dizzywizlw · 23-02-2013 09:22PM

Here's one

People who spell their name as gaelige when their birthcert is in english are pretentious twats.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 09:37PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I dont know what to say. I really dont.

You really are trying to clutch onto this "Dosser" word. Why? I dont have any idea.

I would have no problem discussing this, but you seem to be looking for argument and for that reason I am out.

and yes you still are putting words into my mouth.

You said overpaid and implied not doing their job. This, to me, implies dossing, but we'll agree to disagree on the word dosser and go back to the oher points you'd have "no problem discussing".

1 - In what specific way are teachers responsiible for poor standards of Irish?
2 - You say "Englsih is also being badly taught". Can you verify this?
3 - In what specific way are teachers responsible for poor standards of English?
4 - Do you know how much a primary school teacher earns without having to look it up?

Rasheed wrote: »

I don't agree with the blaming teachers altogether, but he has a point that after 15 years of schooling, we should have a high fluency of Irish.

Rasheed wrote: »

My opening line is bullshiit?

He doesn't have a point, his post was bull****. Not particularly you first line - sorry for the misunderstanding.

Paddy Cow · 23-02-2013 09:39PM

dizzywizlw wrote: »

Here's one

People who spell their name as gaelige when their birthcert is in english are pretentious twats.

It's supposed to be unpopular opinions

The_Kew_Tour · 23-02-2013 10:07PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You said overpaid and implied not doing their job. This, to me, implies dossing, but we'll agree to disagree on the word dosser and go back to the oher points you'd have "no problem discussing".

1 - In what specific way are teachers responsiible for poor standards of Irish?
2 - You say "Englsih is also being badly taught". Can you verify this?
3 - In what specific way are teachers responsible for poor standards of English?
4 - Do you know how much a primary school teacher earns without having to look it up?

He doesn't have a point, his post was bull****. Not particularly you first line - sorry for the misunderstanding.

Well if my posts are BS then you obviously know it all and don't need answers.

Very immature.

Mardy Bum · 23-02-2013 10:46PM

Parents need to stop blaming teachers (obviously criticism in some circumstances is valid) and actively start helping their kids learn whether it be reading a book with them every night or checking over their homework.

Learning is not something which starts at 9.30 and stops at 3.00. It is up to parents to place a greater interest in their children's education. Intelligence is malleable and children should know this from a young age and should be encouraged for their effort. It's not a call for summer schools but it is a call for parents to at least make an effort with helping their children to learn especially at primary school.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-02-2013 10:54PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Parents need to stop blaming teachers ([SIZE="1"]obviously criticism in some circumstances is valid[/SIZE]) and actively start helping their kids learn whether it be reading a book with them every night or checking over their homework.

Learning is not something which starts at 9.30 and stops at 3.00. It is up to parents to place a greater interest in their children's education. Intelligence is malleable and children should know this from a young age and should be encouraged for their effort. It's not a call for summer schools but it is a call for parents to at least make an effort with helping their children to learn especially at primary school.

Agree 100%

But I will say it should not be left upto the parents to pick up the pieces from bad teacher who are earning a very good wage.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-02-2013 10:59PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well if my posts are BS then you obviously know it all and don't need answers.

Very immature.

Thought you said you would have "no problem discussing this"?

If asking you for clarficiation and elaboration of a few points you made is "immature" then what exactly passes for "discussing this" in your book?

The_Kew_Tour · 23-02-2013 11:03PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Thought you said you would have "no problem discussing this"?

Where exactly is this "bad teaching" you talk of?

I have no problem discussing it with person willing to have Civilised argument so something from your posts you have not done. I was not first person either to point out that you quoted posts incorrectly.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-02-2013 02:58AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I have no problem discussing it with person willing to have Civilised argument so something from your posts you have not done. I was not first person either to point out that you quoted posts incorrectly.

I see. The use of the word dosser I explained and stand by, and called a truce over; so may I ask where you think I have been uncivilised?

Rasheed · 24-02-2013 04:13AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

He doesn't have a point, his post was bull****. Not particularly you first line - sorry for the misunderstanding.

I still think he raised a good question. Nothing to do with teachers salary or any of that craic, more the level of Irish most students have. I don't agree that it's the teachers fault, how can 90% of teachers be bad at teaching this specific subject?

I think it's ridiculous that after 15 years of school, how many hours dedicated to Irish, that most [\I] people have an incredibly poor level of Irish.

My anecdotal evidence, for all it's worth, is people are much more comfortable and enjoy their European language choice that they only learned for 5 years. That indicates are serious problem for me and I think the way Irish is taught, not the teachers fault, but everything about the teaching of Irish needs to be overhauled. The 'fun' side of learning a language needs to be brought in, not the ramming of words and phrases.

After 15 years, we should be able to translate Ulysses into Irish!

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