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Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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Comments

  • #1892
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The Government want everyone in the Public Sector to take cuts yet want to again break their own rules by giving a wage increase to some people.
    Where is the logic in this at this particular time?
    Are they again trying to rile the people?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0223/369226-croke-park-agreement/[/QUOTE]

    I'm on the side of the Government in tackling pay, but as you say they lose credibility with that. Pathetic.


  • #1893
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Yes, but people want to see and rightly so in my opinion, the pensions of former ministers and regulators slashed.

    I have no problem with the pensions teachers/nurses etc receive.

    So a former regulator who did a good job (not all were responsible for the mess) and who had a highly paid stressful job with long hours should get a pension smaller than a teacher who had every summer off?


  • #1894
    John Mongo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭John Mongo


    On the note of the GRA complaining about not being at the negotiating table for CPA2, am I the only one utterly confused by their whinging? Didn't they pull out of the talks in the first place?


    Also, speaking as a PS worker, I really wish they'd just get whatever reductions they plan to make, out of the way already. Whether it be a pay cut, freezing of increments or whatever else it is... It's getting very annoying that it's just being dragged out in some wild attempt to delay the inevitable.

    On a side note, it's utterly infuriating to be serving in one part of the PS which is constantly sticking to it's budget, carrying out meaningful reform, working with a pretty small budget at that and then having to see the utter mayhem within the likes of the HSE and their laughable budget trouble, with nobody being punished for it. It's mental.


  • #1895
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Godge wrote: »
    So a former regulator who did a good job (not all were responsible for the mess) and who had a highly paid stressful job with long hours should get a pension smaller than a teacher who had every summer off?

    a stressful job? Neary never looked too stressful when I saw him, not to mention his €630K golden handshake :rolleyes:

    Pat (never Paddy) Neary, the Financial Regulator, was forced to retire at the end of last month and got a massive €630,00 pay-off to go quietly.
    It had transpired that his office had known about the secret directors loans of up to €129m to ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Sean FitzPatrick for at least 11 months.
    Yes folks, instead of being drummed out of the public service for failing to do the job he'd been given and presiding over the worst banking crisis in Irish financial history, Neary gets a massive golden handshake.
    Just to rub salt into the taxpayers' wounds, Neary will also receive a bullet-proof public service pension of almost €143,000 a year, €2,750 per week, for the rest of his life.
    http://www.herald.ie/news/630000-golden-handshake-for-the-bungling-banks-watchdog-pat-neary-27901281.html


  • #1896
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,735 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    John Mongo wrote: »
    On the note of the GRA complaining about not being at the negotiating table for CPA2, am I the only one utterly confused by their whinging? Didn't they pull out of the talks in the first place?


    Also, speaking as a PS worker, I really wish they'd just get whatever reductions they plan to make, out of the way already. Whether it be a pay cut, freezing of increments or whatever else it is... It's getting very annoying that it's just being dragged out in some wild attempt to delay the inevitable.

    On a side note, it's utterly infuriating to be serving in one part of the PS which is constantly sticking to it's budget, carrying out meaningful reform, working with a pretty small budget at that and then having to see the utter mayhem within the likes of the HSE and their laughable budget trouble, with nobody being punished for it. It's mental.

    The GRA were on the radio explaining their position yesterday.

    They were not allowed into the talks.
    They were kept in an adjoining room and given feedback from the leaders of other Unions.
    They had no say and were not allowed to have their opinions or views put forward.
    I couldn't believe that. No wonder they won't accept that. Talk about being second class citizens. Yet Shatter and Kenny couldn't tell the truth about the situation and misled the public by asking the GRA to go back into the talks. They were never allowed into the talks.


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  • #1897
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The GRA were on the radio explaining their position yesterday.

    They were not allowed into the talks.
    They were kept in an adjoining room and given feedback from the leaders of other Unions.
    They had no say and were not allowed to have their opinions or views put forward.
    I couldn't believe that. No wonder they won't accept that. Talk about being second class citizens. Yet Shatter and Kenny couldn't tell the truth about the situation and misled the public by asking the GRA to go back into the talks. They were never allowed into the talks.

    Only gullible people believe that. They either need to put up or shut up.


  • #1898
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,735 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Only gullible people believe that. They either need to put up or shut up.

    Please prove that they were in then.
    If they were it should be no problem to you.


  • #1899
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Please prove that they were in then.
    If they were it should be no problem to you.

    I didn't hear anyone say they were in them....did you ?


  • #1900
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,735 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I didn't hear anyone say they were in them....did you ?

    When I said they were not allowed into the actual talks you said it was gullible. You lost me there.


  • #1901
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Head The Wall wrote: »
    You some to have some problem understanding how pay rises and performance work. Theoretically a below average employee could effectively stay at the same wage level all their life. Just because there's an incremental pay scale that does not mean you just get it automatically (because it's in your contract). Well sorry to break it to you but the govt has copped on a bit to the fact that they can make people work for their increments. So you shoul definitely have to go over and above and excel in your job to receive one.

    This is a concept which seems alien to so many PS on here and they are very defensive about it, it makes you wonder what they have to be afraid of. If you're a good worker you will get the rewards, people afraid of not getting them have every right to be afraid as the day of automatic pay rises should be gone.

    I understand how an incremental pay scale works, If you perform you get incremnents, unfortunately this has not happened in the PS and there's loads of people that are confused and just expect to keep getting pay rises for doing their job.

    You didn't read what i said. I said provided people work to the expected level they are entitled to get their increments. There is no mention of increments being for super employees only. I have my contract sitting in front of me.


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  • #1902
    deise blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭deise blue


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Yes, I see what you mean I worded it badly, but I did say pensions were cut, however, for the top earners they need to be cut far more...so far it's only the name of cuts for the top earners.

    I am still perplexed - what does " so far it's only the name of cuts for the top earners " mean ?


  • #1903
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    tayto lover wrote: »
    When I said they were not allowed into the actual talks you said it was gullible. You lost me there.

    Why on earth would they not be allowed into the talks? Everyone else is in there.


  • #1904
    deise blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭deise blue


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Why on earth would they not be allowed into the talks? Everyone else is in there.

    Because the GRA are not a Trade Union & only ICTU affiliated Unions are part of the negotiations.


  • #1905
    Vizzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Yes, I see what you mean I worded it badly, but I did say pensions were cut, however, for the top earners they need to be cut far more...so far it's only the name of cuts for the top earners.

    Can you explain what the bit in bold means, please ?.


  • #1906
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,735 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Why on earth would they not be allowed into the talks? Everyone else is in there.

    Apparently as they are not a Union and only a Representative body.
    That seems very unfair to me.
    Why should they stay in a room off the talks and have no input?
    They are not allowed to air their views yet the Govt side is asking them to go back to the talks, it's mystifying to me and totally disingenuous.


  • #1907
    Head The Wall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    woodoo wrote: »
    You didn't read what i said. I said provided people work to the expected level they are entitled to get their increments. There is no mention of increments being for super employees only. I have my contract sitting in front of me.

    The problem is there was no "expected level" previous to this which resulted in everyone getting increments no matter how good or bad they were. You still seem to have this mindset that you should get them regardless of performance.


  • #1908
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Apparently as they are not a Union and only a Representative body.
    That seems very unfair to me.
    Why should they stay in a room off the talks and have no input?
    They are not allowed to air their views yet the Govt side is asking them to go back to the talks, it's mystifying to me and totally disingenuous.

    There's only 1 way to know for sure then who is not telling the truth, were they involved with the fiasco CP 1 talks?


  • #1909
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,735 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's only 1 way to know for sure then who is not telling the truth, were they involved with the fiasco CP 1 talks?

    Don't think so.
    Same as this time according to yesterday's radio.


  • #1910
    deise blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭deise blue


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's only 1 way to know for sure then who is not telling the truth, were they involved with the fiasco CP 1 talks?

    It could not be any plainer - they are not a Trade Union & only ICTU affiliated Unions had a say in the original Croke Park Agreement & only these Unions participate in the current negotiations.


  • #1911
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    deise blue wrote: »
    It could not be any plainer - they are not a Trade Union & only ICTU affiliated Unions had a say in the original Croke Park Agreement & only these Unions participate in the current negotiations.

    Well as tayto_lover says, why are the government saying come in and join the talks then ?


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  • #1912
    SB2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭SB2013


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Well as tayto_lover says, why are the government saying come in and join the talks then ?

    Because they are liars


  • #1913
    deise blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭deise blue


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Well as tayto_lover says, why are the government saying come in and join the talks then ?

    Because the Government are being extremely disingenuous - hard as that is to believe :D


  • #1914
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    SB2013 wrote: »
    Because they are liars

    Well maybe I am the gullible one here, but I don't listen to anything from unions, and the government are little better.

    I'm calling for wage cuts, but I must say on a personal level I don't like to see anyone or family suffer.


  • #1915
    deise blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭deise blue


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Well maybe I am the gullible one here, but I don't listen to anything from unions, and the government are little better.

    I'm calling for wage cuts, but I must say on a personal level I don't like to see anyone or family suffer.

    Unfortunately I must agree - you are gullible & ill informed.


  • #1916
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    deise blue wrote: »
    Unfortunately I must agree - you are gullible & ill informed.

    I never said otherwise.

    But the unions need to be tackled and finally justify PS wages, perks, allowances etc to the private sector.


  • #1917
    SB2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭SB2013


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I never said otherwise.

    But the unions need to be tackled and finally justify PS wages, perks, allowances etc to the private sector.

    Do you not think it would be wise to get informed before you call for paycuts? What exactly are you basing that call on?


  • #1918
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's only 1 way to know for sure then who is not telling the truth, were they involved with the fiasco CP 1 talks?



    http://www.gra.cc/press_statement_23_02_13.shtml

    This is the press statement from the GRA website. It is factually accurate in its references to the talks process (see first paragraph).


  • #1919
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    SB2013 wrote: »
    Do you not think it would be wise to get informed before you call for paycuts? What exactly are you basing that call on?

    Many people here think they are informed, but alas, I have seen very few informed posters.

    Paycuts are needed, the country is bust. We don't need to be informed or otherwise to know that.


  • #1920
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    .

    But the unions need to be tackled and finally justify PS wages, perks, allowances etc to the private sector.

    Why? We can just raise taxes and cut social welfare and grants to the GPA and farmers.

    Cutting public service pay isn't the only policy option and not one person on here has been able to put forward a rational case for doing so over any other policy option.


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  • #1921
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    a stressful job? Neary never looked too stressful when I saw him, not to mention his €630K golden handshake :rolleyes:

    Pat (never Paddy) Neary, the Financial Regulator, was forced to retire at the end of last month and got a massive €630,00 pay-off to go quietly.
    It had transpired that his office had known about the secret directors loans of up to €129m to ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Sean FitzPatrick for at least 11 months.
    Yes folks, instead of being drummed out of the public service for failing to do the job he'd been given and presiding over the worst banking crisis in Irish financial history, Neary gets a massive golden handshake.
    Just to rub salt into the taxpayers' wounds, Neary will also receive a bullet-proof public service pension of almost €143,000 a year, €2,750 per week, for the rest of his life.
    http://www.herald.ie/news/630000-golden-handshake-for-the-bungling-banks-watchdog-pat-neary-27901281.html


    This is where blindnes and lack of knowledge gets you.

    Your post refers to regulators.

    There are aviation regulatars, taxi regulators, communication regulators, regulators of competition, none of whom have been castigated in the way Neary was. Yet you take one isolated example of one particular regulator who has done a bad job and use it as a reason to cut the pension of all regulators.

    I again ask you the question (which you can answer when you have done some research on all of the other regulators) why a hard-working (over 60 hours per week) efficient, high-performing regulator have his/her pension cut and not teachers who have every summer off just because one internet poster thinks it would be a good idea.


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