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Katy French's death: was justice done?

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    #152
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    "what harm can an odd spliff do?"

    Go on......


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    #153
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I suppose we really shouldn't be surprised at the French family's attitude.

    There seems to be an inherant aversion to taking personal responsability for anything in Ireland nowadays in all levels of society and in all aspects of life.

    And it's sad imo.


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    #154
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Has anyone else heard the story that the delay in calling the emergency services was to do with moving her from one house to another before calling the ambulance?

    If you ask me this puts her death and other people's responsibility for it under a lot more scrunity.


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    #155
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I suppose we really shouldn't be surprised at the French family's attitude.

    There seems to be an inherant aversion to taking personal responsability for anything in Ireland nowadays in all levels of society and in all aspects of life.

    And it's sad imo.

    It is natural to blame everyone else, it's not just Ireland.

    The problem for me and throughout this thread is; it is obvious that there is also an inherent aversion to the fact that everything about cocaine is illegal, just because your friends sort it for you but you take it and die means they did nothing wrong. They did.


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    #156
    mondymike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 333 ✭✭mondymike


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I suppose we really shouldn't be surprised at the French family's attitude.

    There seems to be an inherant aversion to taking personal responsability for anything in Ireland nowadays in all levels of society and in all aspects of life.

    And it's sad imo.


    I remember the weekend she died, there were 2or3 other people died from cocaine aswell, yet they were almost swept under the carpets. Not famous enough......


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    #157
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    mondymike wrote: »
    I remember the weekend she died, there were 2or3 other people died from cocaine aswell, yet they were almost swept under the carpets. Not famous enough......

    By the media or the justice system?


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    #158
    Veronica Calm Killer
    Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭ Veronica Calm Killer


    The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »
    Hence the thread title, comments throughout the thread so far and the family's comments yesterday.



    All these questions have been answered. I know you said you didn't read the thread but come on, that point was addressed in the OP.

    In this post also:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83303599

    I read the OP. Still don't see how the French family think these people were to blame for their daughter dying. What does it matter if the drugs were there to take? If she hadn't taken them herself, she wouldn't have died. It's not as if she was a 3-year-old who found a dodgy pill on the carpet and swallowed it. I'm not an idiot, I understand that buying/possession of drugs is illegal and that people should be punished for that. I don't see how them not being punished in this instance means that justice 'hasn't been done' for Katy.


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    #159
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    she was over 18 and knew what she was doing.


    why anyone would want to snuff some crap up your nose, that was probably stuffed up some knacker's hairy arse?
    Oh! the glamour of it all.


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    #160
    The Barefoot Pizza Thief
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 240 ✭✭The Barefoot Pizza Thief


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I suppose we really shouldn't be surprised at the French family's attitude.

    There seems to be an inherant aversion to taking personal responsability for anything in Ireland nowadays in all levels of society and in all aspects of life.

    From the rest of your post it sounds like you have no idea what her family's attitude is.

    They have not once suggested that Katy should not be responsible for her drug taking, they only want people to be held responsible for not alerting the hospital when they found her foaming at the mouth, "bouncing off the floor" - how many times does that need to be said before people get down off their high horses.
    And it's sad imo.

    No, what's sad is people constantly criticising this family's "attitude" and speaking about them as if they having been talking to the media for years when they only gave one statement in five.
    Veronica Calm Killer wrote: »
    I read the OP[/i]. Still don't see how the French family think these people were to blame for their daughter dying. What does it matter if the drugs were there to take? If she hadn't taken them herself, she wouldn't have died. It's not as if she was a 3-year-old who found a dodgy pill on the carpet and swallowed it. I'm not an idiot, I understand that buying/possession of drugs is illegal and that people should be punished for that. I don't see how them not being punished in this instance means that justice 'hasn't been done' for Katy.

    Sorry, but it looks like you have not read the OP, or much of the thread for that matter.

    "So what if the drugs where there" - who made that point? Sure Katy was the one who brought the drugs with her.

    If you read the thread you would see that my asking if justice has been done has got very little to do with the drugs. For the simple reason that Katy had only a small amount in her system and NOBODY is blaming anyone else for her having taken them (other than the law). If the timeline that was spoken of in the court is to be believed, then there is a 95 minute gap from Ducie finding her on the floor after hearing a loud bag, foaming at the mouth, head back, arms outstretched, fitting and him phoning hospital. Again, as the family said:
    In a statement, the family said they were grateful for the efforts of the Gardaí to “get justice” for Katy’s death, but that they felt “saddened and angry” that a second charge against the pair – of endangerment to the 24-year-old model’s life – was not brought.

    “The DPP has explained their reasons, and we understand them, even though they are hard for the family to accept,” Janet French said.

    “We are now left without a full picture of what happened. We would have liked Kieron Ducie and Ann Corcoran to take the opportunity of the court case to give an explanation but they did not.”


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    #161
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,913 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    mikom wrote: »
    Go on......
    If you think its ok to bankroll some scumbag, go right ahead.


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    #162
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    If you think its ok to bankroll some scumbag, go right ahead.

    totally agree.
    the biggest arguments against taking that sh1t are,

    1. you are financially supporting some little knacker or other.
    2. there is absolutely no quality control, so you have no idea what sh1te is in it.

    apart from that i dont have a problem with drugs, eg beer, wine, gin, panadol, aspirin, parachetemol etc.


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    #163
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    I remember Bertie sent his Aide De Camp to represent him at the celebrity funeral.

    As if he would send him to every druggies funeral.

    Reminds me of the Michaela Harte media event, a poor girl from Wexford died in similar circumstances in Japan at the same time but it got none of the publicity.


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    #164
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Are people repeating things for the craic or have you genuinely not read back through the thread?

    It's like some weird comedy sketch or something.


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    #165
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    Or a broken record....


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    #166
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Has anyone else heard the story that the delay in calling the emergency services was to do with moving her from one house to another before calling the ambulance?

    If you ask me this puts her death and other people's responsibility for it under a lot more scrunity.

    well there seemed to a be a delay in ducie and corcoran contacting the emergency services and / or bring her there , a lapse of a few hours which could made have a difference,

    i'd say her family knew that she was more than a weekend coke user and the fact that they are pursuing their 'justice' campaign is down to the delayed actions of corcoran and ducie


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    #167
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    HondaSami wrote: »
    It was her choice to take the drugs, blaming everyone else is not going to bring her back. Her family need to stop looking for someone to blame and accept it was her own fault.

    This post got, at the last count 312 thanks on the first page.

    I can't understand how people don't see that her family's issue isn't that they told her where to get the drugs.

    It's that there were almost 2 hours between the time she had a fit to the time she got to the hospital.

    From today's article:

    "Her mother Janet said they "question" and feel unable to "forgive" Kieron Ducie and Ann Corcoran for their failure to call an ambulance after they admitted finding the 24-year-old model in difficulties at their home."

    Also:

    "Among the many questions left unanswered for her parents include an almost two-hour time gap in the period between when the model was discovered "rigid" and "bouncing" on the floor and was brought to hospital in Ducie's car.

    They say it is still not known why Ducie didn't first check with the emergency services to find out how long it would take for an ambulance to arrive, before driving her to hospital    ."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/models-family-we-cant-forgive-them-for-failing-katy-when-she-was-in-trouble-29082140.html


    Nowhere in the article are the parents quoted as having a problem with Ducie and Corcoran sorting her out with drugs.

    Surely you can understand why the parents would be upset?

    The majority on this thread are saying that "she took drugs so it's her own fault". It might be her own fault that she fell seriously ill, but it's their fault for failing her when she needed them the most.

    Anyone with a bit of cop on should be able to see why the parents are upset by that aspect.


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    #168
    starskey77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 143 ✭✭starskey77


    people in high profile jobs media celebs see the white
    stuff every weekend openly being used its only a mater of time before
    your sucked in its a shame she was a beautiful looking girl
    ming says legalize hash cud be right


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    #169
    Tucker688
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭Tucker688


    She took it, her own fault


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    #170
    tigger123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭tigger123


    kraggy wrote: »

    This post got, at the last count 312 thanks on the first page.

    I can't understand how people don't see that her family's issue isn't that they told her where to get the drugs.

    It's that there were almost 2 hours between the time she had a fit to the time she got to the hospital.

    From today's article:

    "Her mother Janet said they "question" and feel unable to "forgive" Kieron Ducie and Ann Corcoran for their failure to call an ambulance after they admitted finding the 24-year-old model in difficulties at their home."

    Also:

    "Among the many questions left unanswered for her parents include an almost two-hour time gap in the period between when the model was discovered "rigid" and "bouncing" on the floor and was brought to hospital in Ducie's car.

    They say it is still not known why Ducie didn't first check with the emergency services to find out how long it would take for an ambulance to arrive, before driving her to hospital    ."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/models-family-we-cant-forgive-them-for-failing-katy-when-she-was-in-trouble-29082140.html


    Nowhere in the article are the parents quoted as having a problem with Ducie and Corcoran sorting her out with drugs.

    Surely you can understand why the parents would be upset?

    The majority on this thread are saying that "she took drugs so it's her own fault". It might be her own fault that she fell seriously ill, but it's their fault for failing her when she needed them the most.

    Anyone with a bit of cop on should be able to see why the parents are upset by that aspect.

    Would be inclined to agree, Ducie and Corcoran should have got her to a hospital straight away.


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    #171
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    kraggy wrote: »

    This post got, at the last count 312 thanks on the first page.

    I can't understand how people don't see that her family's issue isn't that they told her where to get the drugs.

    It's that there were almost 2 hours between the time she had a fit to the time she got to the hospital.

    From today's article:

    "Her mother Janet said they "question" and feel unable to "forgive" Kieron Ducie and Ann Corcoran for their failure to call an ambulance after they admitted finding the 24-year-old model in difficulties at their home."

    Also:

    "Among the many questions left unanswered for her parents include an almost two-hour time gap in the period between when the model was discovered "rigid" and "bouncing" on the floor and was brought to hospital in Ducie's car.

    They say it is still not known why Ducie didn't first check with the emergency services to find out how long it would take for an ambulance to arrive, before driving her to hospital    ."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/models-family-we-cant-forgive-them-for-failing-katy-when-she-was-in-trouble-29082140.html


    Nowhere in the article are the parents quoted as having a problem with Ducie and Corcoran sorting her out with drugs.

    Surely you can understand why the parents would be upset?

    The majority on this thread are saying that "she took drugs so it's her own fault". It might be her own fault that she fell seriously ill, but it's their fault for failing her when she needed them the most.

    Anyone with a bit of cop on should be able to see why the parents are upset by that aspect.

    I can see why her parents are upset but I dont know why this is news?


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    #172
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,747 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    What sort of sentence would the couple have got in countries that have Duty to Rescue laws ?


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    #173
    30rocky2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭30rocky2013


    she took the drugs own fault

    maybe her family would be better off sorting out the grave were katy lies, in terrible state.... like they disowned the girl


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    #174
    Duck Soup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    kraggy wrote: »
    This post got, at the last count 312 thanks on the first page.

    I can't understand how people don't see that her family's issue isn't that they told her where to get the drugs.

    It's that there were almost 2 hours between the time she had a fit to the time she got to the hospital.

    From today's article:

    "Her mother Janet said they "question" and feel unable to "forgive" Kieron Ducie and Ann Corcoran for their failure to call an ambulance after they admitted finding the 24-year-old model in difficulties at their home."

    Also:

    "Among the many questions left unanswered for her parents include an almost two-hour time gap in the period between when the model was discovered "rigid" and "bouncing" on the floor and was brought to hospital in Ducie's car.

    They say it is still not known why Ducie didn't first check with the emergency services to find out how long it would take for an ambulance to arrive, before driving her to hospital    ."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/models-family-we-cant-forgive-them-for-failing-katy-when-she-was-in-trouble-29082140.html


    Nowhere in the article are the parents quoted as having a problem with Ducie and Corcoran sorting her out with drugs.

    Surely you can understand why the parents would be upset?

    The majority on this thread are saying that "she took drugs so it's her own fault". It might be her own fault that she fell seriously ill, but it's their fault for failing her when she needed them the most.

    Anyone with a bit of cop on should be able to see why the parents are upset by that aspect.

    I can understand why the parents are upset, but the prosecutors will only take forward what they can successfully prosecute.

    Corcoran and Ducie were originally charged in 2010 with two offences. 1. Procuring drugs. 2. Failing to get medical assistance in a timely fashion.

    In 2011, the second of the two charges were dropped.

    The court case that was resolved this week with the suspended sentences was solely to do with the procurement charge and it was always unlikely that this would get them custodial sentences without suspension. They were neither the drug dealer (who also got a suspended sentence but should have done time, as all drug dealers should) nor the drug takers.

    French's parents appear to have hoped that the severity of the outcome - their daughter's death - would have had an impact on the sentence for the procurement charges. But the law doesn't work like that. Once the failure to get medical assistance in a timely fashion charge had been dropped, the procurement charge - effectively acting as a go-between for a dealer and a user - had to be judged on its own merits. How much drugs were procured? Was if for multiple people?

    The only question is why was the failure to get medical assistance charge dropped? We won't find the answer in the newspapers as the prosecution service will not lay out their reasoning. Perhaps it was a purely medical rationale. Perhaps even if they'd have gotten there earlier, the brain damage was already done and she was slowly dying from the moment she snorted the coke. Perhaps it was based on what was reasonable to expect from lay people in that situation. Was it a spasm or seizure they expected her to come out of and could not have known the severity of?

    Was justice done for the crimes for which they were charged? Yes. Should they have been charged with the other 'failure to get medical assistance' offenses? Possibly, but if it could have stood up in court they'd have brought the charges.

    What Ducie and Corocoran could be charged with, with a realistic expectation of conviction, they were. They were convicted. Katy sought out drugs, got people to procure drugs, took drugs and paid the price. She was the animus behind the whole chain of events. Unpalatable though it may be, everyone has paid the price for a sad, self-inflicted piece of rich people's hedonism. Katy with her life, the rest in court.


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    #175
    im invisible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    i can't say i ever heard of her untill she died, but shur she's got the whole country talking about her now.


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    #176
    Ruudi_Mentari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Ruudi_Mentari


    thing is the ongoing witchunt will only cause further resentment of her, when it is hardly at her behest


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    #177
    im invisible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    poetic justice...


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    #178
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,761 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Justice would be not having to hear about it on the news and see it in the papers like she was someone we were supposed to care about rather than yet another bimbo train wreck celebrity


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    #179
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,457 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    im invisible wrote: »
    i can't say i ever heard of her untill she died, but shur she's got the whole country talking about her now.

    Ditto. She only became a celebrity after the incident.


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    #180
    barney4001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭barney4001


    that celebrity crowd are mostly into drugs of one kind or another plus alcohol


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    #181
    jkell061
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭jkell061


    Katy French's death: was justice done?

    Short answer; yes

    Long answer; yes it was


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