Katy French's death: was justice done?

irishgeo

must been a lot of drugs to flush down the toilet in them 2 hours.

ihateusernames

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

You infer that there are no grounds for my accusations but on the contrary, there are:

I know as much about it as you do. However if there were grounds to convict them of this I would have imagined that it would not have been dropped, normally the lesser charge is dropped when there is a plea. As it stands they are innocent of it and imo shouldn't be talked about like they were found guilty in relation to this.

Laois_Man

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the papers over the next few days, particularly the Sunday rags. I'd bet Duchie (or duchebag or whatever his name is) and\or Corcoran will be offered plenty of money by the tabloids to tell their story now that legal proceedings have concluded. It will say a lot about them if the accept it.....if more needs to be said.

squod

I was sorry to hear of her death. Can't say the trial meant anything to me. Think everyone knew from the outset that this was going to be a straight forward matter.

monkeypants

The court heard there was a 90 minute gap between when Ducie and Corcoran said they found the model...and arriving at a nearby hospital

Is there some kind of legal target for this? Sounds like they'd have been better off leaving her there until the morning and going back to bed.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

ihateusernames wrote: »

I know as much about it as you do. However if there were grounds to convict them of this I would have imagined that it would not have been dropped, normally the lesser charge is dropped when there is a plea. As it stands they are innocent of it and imo shouldn't be talked about like they were found guilty in relation to this.

All of the details to which I am referring came out in the inquest and therefore should be taken as factual.

Sure their own statements, coupled with the authorities, leave no ambiguity as to the fact that they waited 95 minutes to call an ambulance:

The defendants told gardaí they heard a bang about 8.15-8.30am and when they went downstairs they found Ms French lying on the ground.

In a statement to gardaí, Ducie said he found Katy French lying face down and ‘bouncing up and down’. He said he grabbed her by the waist, her arms and legs were straight out and her eyes were bulging.

The superintendent said that phone records showed that Ducie had made a 999 call at 10.05am and arrived at the hospital at 10.12am. He added that forensic examination of phone traffic showed that Ducie had made a number of calls to Memery between 9.59am and 1pm.

Johnny Utah

Maybe they fell asleep?

ihateusernames

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

All of those details came out in the inquest and are therefore should be taken as factual. Sure their own statements, coupled with the authorities, leave no ambiguity as to the fact that they waited 95 minutes to call an ambulance:

I dont dispute that at all, I'm simply saying that they are innocent of the charge of not calling the ambulance in a timely fashion (or whatever way the offence is worded). The evidence must not have been there to convict them of it.
I'm not in anyway saying they did everything they could, but they are innocent of this and I respect that judgement

King of Kings

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Maybe they fell asleep?

maybe they didn't think it was serious.
it's not like I ring an ambulance if a mate passes out from drink.

The personalities involved is irrelevant - an adult went and got,took and died from drugs all by her own hand and consent (well she didn't mean to die I guess).

them are the breaks.

her family warbling on the court steps trying to get somebody else to take the blame for their daughters behaviour is sickening.
They are trying to blacken the names of people who did very little wrong.

How many people in ireland have passed a number of a guy to a mate? the DPP bringing the charge is plain stupid -

xLexie

Here look at the end of the day a junkie doesn't need much help sourcing their supply, and at 24 or whatever age she was, she didnt need much encouragement to put that shyt up her nose. I'm a firm believer of people being responsible for their own actions and it was her choice to take the drug, it's not really breaking news that it can kill you. I know she was a model and most likely brain dead anyway but still, it's nobody else's fault what she decides to do.
And hey, what about those young lads that died from dodge coke down in waterford in or around the same time as Katy? Where's their justice?

HondaSami

xLexie wrote: »

I know she was a model and most likely brain dead anyway but still,

No need to be unkind to her.

xLexie

HondaSami wrote: »

No need to be unkind to her.

Just save my sympathy to those who don't self inflict "victim" on themselves.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Coke party gone wrong. Happens all the time so why should the normal person be affected more by this than any other junkie not able to hack cut down white.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

ihateusernames wrote: »

I dont dispute that at all, I'm simply saying that they are innocent of the charge of not calling the ambulance in a timely fashion (or whatever way the offence is worded). The evidence must not have been there to convict them of it.
I'm not in anyway saying they did everything they could, but they are innocent of this and I respect that judgement

What "judgement"? There was no judgement as they were not charged.

Perhaps a deal was struck but for whatever reason the charge of 'reckless conduct resulting in death' was dropped, it should never have been as the facts clearly show that Ducie (in particular) made a conscious decision not to phone an ambulance. If there is more to the story than the bare facts suggest, then fair enough but right now, with the facts on offer, that is how I am calling it.

King of Kings wrote: »

maybe they didn't think it was serious.

Okay, well you clearly are not aware of certain statements by Ducie and so let me rectify that:

I grabbed her off the floor and lifted her onto the bed. Her body was just shooting ... her arms were shooting back and forward. Her eyes were bulging. She was foaming around the mouth. I was just horrified.

I got her into the jeep.There was no waiting. I don't know what time it was. It's like somebody throwing a grenade into this room now - time freezes.

I nearly crashed the jeep a couple of times on the back roads. Crazy driving. Headlights were flashing. Tearing down the road. I'm sure there was people going, 'Ring the police there's a madman on the road'. It was pandemonium in the jeep.Mayhem.

So, now you know his thoughts on finding her having a fit.

ihateusernames

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

What "judgement"? There was no judgement as they were not charged.

Perhaps a deal was struck but for whatever reason the charge of 'reckless conduct resulting in death' was dropped, it should never have been as the facts clearly show that Ducie (in particular) made a conscious decision not to phone an ambulance. If there is more to the story than the bare facts suggest, then fair enough but right now, with the facts on offer, that is how I am calling it.



Okay, well you clearly are not aware of certain statements by Ducie and so let me rectify that:



So, now you know his thoughts on finding her having a fit.

The judgement/decision made by the dpp not to pursue the charge.
I would have imagined with all the hype surrounding the case that this charge above all others the dpp would have loved to get (understandably the family too). so I'm simply looking at the facts (just like you are) and coming to the conclusion it is not as clear cut as the statements you outlined seem to suggest.

King of Kings

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

What "judgement"? There was no judgement as they were not charged.

Perhaps a deal was struck but for whatever reason the charge of 'reckless conduct resulting in death' was dropped, it should never have been as the facts clearly show that Ducie (in particular) made a conscious decision not to phone an ambulance. If there is more to the story than the bare facts suggest, then fair enough but right now, with the facts on offer, that is how I am calling it.



Okay, well you clearly are not aware of certain statements by Ducie and so let me rectify that:



So, now you know his thoughts on finding her having a fit.

but that doesnt explain the time lag cos as per your quote ".There was no waiting."

I'm only suggesting that perhaps initially he didn't think it was that serious.

anyway the point stands - trying to persecute them is unfair and silly.
She , unfortunately , did it to herself.

Hannibal Smith

I dont care if she's high profile other not....in fact I'm delighted she was high profile and her 'classy' mates have been brought down a peg or two. Yes she took the drugs and there is always a danger with an illegal unregulated substance but she didn't deserve to die over it.

But those two who tried ringing the dealer 7 times rather than calling for emergency help did it to save their own asses . they were more concerned about themselves than their mate lying on the ground...filthy low lives. I'm delighted they were caught out.

AudreyHepburn

Of course justice wasn't done....because there was no need for it to be done.

Katy French was grown woman who made the decision of her own free will to take drugs that night and she paid the ultimate price for it.

A tragedy yes....but it was her own fault.

The Barefoot Pizza Thief

ihateusernames wrote: »

The judgement/decision made by the dpp not to pursue the charge

But you state:

ihateusernames wrote: »

they are innocent of this and I respect that judgement

As if to imply they have been tried and found to be innocent but they haven't. The DPP making a "judgement" not charge them, is not the same thing as being found innocent - you need a trial for that and that's not to say that I don't believe people are innocent until proven guilty, as I most certainly do (Le Vell for example, I feel should not be spoken of as of he has done the crimes he has been charged with).

I would have imagined with all the hype surrounding the case that this charge above all others the dpp would have loved to get (understandably the family too). so I'm simply looking at the facts (just like you are) and coming to the conclusion it is not as clear cut as the statements you outlined seem to suggest.

My point is not that they are guilty of causing Katy's death and I would never say such a thing without there having been a trial but I do, without question, feel that there is enough there to charge them based on the facts on offer. The time they found her, the first call Ducie made, when they finally phone the ambulance etc - all these things seem to be accepted by the defense.

The family above all else need to know what happened between 8.15am (when they claim they heard Katy collapse) and 10.05am (when hospital say they were first phoned and also why hospital staff were not informed that she had taken cocaine.

As I say, from the facts put forth so far, there are some serious questions that need answering and if the facts of the inquest are just that: 'facts' - well then they should have been charged with negligent conduct resulting in death. If any of those "facts" turn out to be less than that, then of course I would not be of the opinion that I now am, but at the moment the details of the inquest so far remain unchallenged.

NIMAN

Criminal gangs supply drugs, and expecting them to deliver safe, pure drugs is a risk.

Taking any Class A drug is a risk, and unfortunately for the person concerned in this case, it went badly wrong. Like it does for many others.

HondaSami

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

The time they found her, the first call Ducie made, when they finally phone the ambulance etc - all these things seem to be accepted by the defense.

What do you want to happen now? another trial? Would it have made any difference if they took her to hospital straight away?

According to the report Katy had little drink or drugs in her system, who took the drugs? were these people in the right frame of mind to do the right thing?

monkeysnapper

Your a hard bunch on after hours tonight ! Remember kids ... STAY CLEAN ... And stay out of trouble .

ihateusernames

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

But you state:



As if to imply they have been tried and found to be innocent but they haven't. The DPP making a "judgement" not charge them, is not the same thing as being found innocent - you need a trial for that and that's not to say that I don't believe people are innocent until proven guilty, as I most certainly do (Le Vell for example, I feel should not be spoken of as of he has done the crimes he has been charged with).



My point is not that they are guilty of causing Katy's death and I would never say such a thing without there having been a trial but I do, without question, feel that there is enough there to charge them based on the facts on offer. The time they found her, the first call Ducie made, when they finally phone the ambulance etc - all these things seem to be accepted by the defense.

The family above all else need to know what happened between 8.15am (when they claim they heard Katy collapse) and 10.05am (when hospital say they were first phoned and also why hospital staff were not informed that she had taken cocaine.

As I say, from the facts put forth so far, there are some serious questions that need answering and if the facts of the inquest are just that: 'facts' - well then they should have been charged with negligent conduct resulting in death. If any of those "facts" turn out to be less than that, then of course I would not be of the opinion that I now am, but at the moment the details of the inquest so far remain unchallenged.

I agree with you, the family should know what happened.

Secondly "innocent until proven guilty" .....they have not been found guilty. Im aware they have not been tried for this, apologies if my poor choice of words suggested this.

Finaly, the argument you put forward is perfectly reasonable. However I reckon the DPP are aware of further facts which made them come to the conclusion that they were not confident of a sucessfull prosecution.

ihateusernames

The Barefoot Pizza Thief wrote: »

But you state:



As if to imply they have been tried and found to be innocent but they haven't. The DPP making a "judgement" not charge them, is not the same thing as being found innocent - you need a trial for that and that's not to say that I don't believe people are innocent until proven guilty, as I most certainly do (Le Vell for example, I feel should not be spoken of as of he has done the crimes he has been charged with).



My point is not that they are guilty of causing Katy's death and I would never say such a thing without there having been a trial but I do, without question, feel that there is enough there to charge them based on the facts on offer. The time they found her, the first call Ducie made, when they finally phone the ambulance etc - all these things seem to be accepted by the defense.

The family above all else need to know what happened between 8.15am (when they claim they heard Katy collapse) and 10.05am (when hospital say they were first phoned and also why hospital staff were not informed that she had taken cocaine.

As I say, from the facts put forth so far, there are some serious questions that need answering and if the facts of the inquest are just that: 'facts' - well then they should have been charged with negligent conduct resulting in death. If any of those "facts" turn out to be less than that, then of course I would not be of the opinion that I now am, but at the moment the details of the inquest so far remain unchallenged.

I agree with you, the family should know what happened.

Secondly "innocent until proven guilty" .....they have not been found guilty. Im aware they have not been tried for this, apologies if my poor choice of words suggested this.

Finaly, the argument you put forward is perfectly reasonable. However I reckon the DPP are aware of further facts which made them come to the conclusion that they were not confident of a sucessfull prosecution.

Liamario

I never understood the coverage of this death. As has been said, if it was just your average joe, nobody would have blinked an eyelid. Because its this semi famous individual, the media are trying to make out like the country is in mourning, with people marching the streets demanding justice.
She took cocaine, knowing the risks. She died. It's nobody else's fault but her own. The family need a wake up call and to understand that the vast majority of people don't see poor little Katie as a victim.

0ph0rce0

fatknacker wrote: »

Those poor people are just being 'made an example of.
If it weren't a high profile celebrity who died, their lives wouldn't also be ruined.
How many people get simllar treatment when a junkie dies trom gear?

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

SEPT 23 1989

Didnt a couple of riders on the storm die in Waterford or Cork on the same weekend?

krudler

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Didnt a couple of riders on the storm die in Waterford or Cork on the same weekend?

but they weren't models, when you're pretty and die from your own actions its a tragedy ya see.

NegativeCreep

Meh, she snorted a bit of coke, so what. If you die, you die and it's no one elses fault.

greenman09

I'm fed up hearing press and family try and blame everyone but Katy French. Time to accept she took the drugs herself. Sure weren't they calling for Gerry Ryan's dealer when he died?