Magdalene Laundries, and the Billion Euro Savings

Mint Sauce · 20-02-2013 11:26AM #1

Maybe I have been reading the Conspiracy Forum a bit much, but I'm finding it very convenient that the Government were announcing a billion euro in savings from the recent Anglo deal, weeks before a Magdalene Laundries apology.

Now before I go any further, this is not any kind of dig at them girls/women who suffered, but it was doubted that the victims would not get an apology as it would cost the government too much in compensation. Then we have the government touting this deal they got, saving us all this money, can easily see some of this now going towards to compo fund.

Again, the government, and Enda have come up smelling of roses, and have to wonder if the Anglo deal was only done, as the government knew news was going to break of their involvement in the Laundries, and would need cash quick.

srsly78 · 20-02-2013 11:27AM

I doubt they saved a billion euros just by having their laundry done for free.

fishy fishy · 20-02-2013 11:30AM

its amazing how a bit of coaching can have people in this country doing a complete u-turn on what they think of people

if edna was so upset (as he seems to have been last night) about what happened to these women, why didn't he offer some sort of personal feeling and hint at an apology two weeks ago, instead of waiting to be coached.

no wonder FF is back on top in the polls - with people falling for nonsense like this.

I am not talking about the actual magdalene women here either - they deserve their apology and a lot more. I'm talking about the rest of this country going around praising edna to the high hilt because of a few croc tears. Wise UP

also, was mary coughlan in the magdelene??

seamus · 20-02-2013 11:31AM

The compensation for the laundries will be absolute pennies compared to the promissory note deal. It's very far fetched to think that they went to all that trouble just to scrape that cash together. It would be like remortgaging your house so you could buy a new iPhone.

if edna was so upset (as he seems to have been last night) about what happened to these women, why didn't he offer some sort of personal feeling and hint at an apology two weeks ago

And if he had apologised two weeks ago, people would have said that it was a hollow apology made without feeling because he couldn't possibly have had time to read the report and understand the suffering of the women.

Just can't win. Whiners will continue to whine no matter what you do.

padd b1975 · 20-02-2013 11:31AM

irish-stew wrote: »

Maybe I have been reading the Conspiracy Forum a bit much

Indeed.

snubbleste · 20-02-2013 11:36AM

The Magladene report only came out two weeks go. It needs to be read and digested and then responded to. Kenny did the right thing - he read the report,discussed it with cabinet, met the groups concerned and then spoke on behalf of the country.
As for the Anglo deal, Noonan made it clear that it was going to happen at some point since autumn until end February before payments became due end March

Mint Sauce · 20-02-2013 11:37AM

seamus wrote: »

The compensation for the laundries will be absolute pennies compared to the promissory note deal. It's very far fetched to think that they went to all that trouble just to scrape that cash together. It would be like remortgaging your house so you could buy a new iPhone.

Hence my comment on some of the money going towards it. If the money wasn't there, I doubt the government could not have afforded the apology. Now the government have came up twice in the eyes of some.

Even though one of the deals have put a 40 year debt on the country, and the other announcement might not have been done only for that deal.

I genually do though hope the women get their share, regardless how the funding was sourced.

padd b1975 · 20-02-2013 11:37AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

if edna was so upset (as he seems to have been last night) about what happened to these women, why didn't he offer some sort of personal feeling and hint at an apology two weeks ago, instead of waiting to be coached.

He did.

Mr Kenny expressed his sympathies with survivors and the families of those who
died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221

padd b1975 · 20-02-2013 11:39AM

irish-stew wrote: »

Hence my comment on some of the money going towards it. If the money wasn't there, I doubt the government could not have afforded the apology. Now the government have came up twice in the eyes of some.

Even though one of the deals have put a 40 year debt on the country, and the other announcement might not have been done only for that deal.

I genually do though hope the women get their share, regardless how the funding was sourced.

There is no extra money.

All the deal means is that we are borrowing less.

fishy fishy · 20-02-2013 11:39AM

snubbleste wrote: »

The Magladene report only came out two weeks go. It needs to be read and digested and then responded to. Kenny did the right thing - he read the report,discussed it with cabinet, met the groups concerned and then spoke on behalf of the country.
As for the Anglo deal, Noonan made it clear that it was going to happen at some point since autumn until end February before payments became due end March

the magdalene laundries and what went on there have been talked about for YEARS. NOBODY gave a toss. Edna kenny didn't even give a toss two weeks ago. Unless he was living under a rock he knew what went on there. he had to wait to be coached.

empathy and sorrow will show through naturally - you don't put it off for a couple of weeks until you get your ducks in a row.

davet82 · 20-02-2013 11:40AM

"Magdalene Laundries, and the Billion Euro Savings"

I thought this was gonna be a suggestion to re-open them...

Mint Sauce · 20-02-2013 11:53AM

padd b1975 wrote: »

There is no extra money.

All the deal means is that we are borrowing less.

We are borrowing less over a longer period, so it frees up money, atleast this is my understanding.

Azure_sky · 20-02-2013 12:46PM

Tax the church to compensate the victims; don't tax the innocent.

Death and Taxes · 20-02-2013 12:50PM

irish-stew wrote: »

Maybe I have been reading the Conspiracy Forum a bit much, .

You have OP, way too much!

Ash.J.Williams · 20-02-2013 12:53PM

Azure_sky wrote: »

Tax the church to compensate the victims; don't tax the innocent.

It wasn't just the church this time! It was our fault too!

G Power · 20-02-2013 12:57PM

there is no 1 billion euro saving!! the government are trying to say they'll save a billion each year over the next 3 years but a groupe of us had an economics lecturer from NUIG explain the figure is closer to 1 bellion over the course of the next 3 years and in all likelyhood that 1 billion will be swallowed up one way or another so in reality all we're left with is a massive debt we had nothing to do with getting landed on our children's children's heads

Azure_sky · 20-02-2013 01:00PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

It wasn't just the church this time! It was our fault too!

How was it our fault? Some tax payers were not even born when it happened. That's kind of the original sin morality which the Catholic Church endorses.

awec · 20-02-2013 01:02PM

G Power wrote: »

there is no 1 billion euro saving!! the government are trying to say they'll save a billion each year over the next 3 years but a groupe of us had an economics lecturer from NUIG explain the figure is closer to 1 bellion over the course of the next 3 years and in all likelyhood that 1 billion will be swallowed up one way or another so in reality all we're left with is a massive debt we had nothing to do with getting landed on our children's children's heads

Baffling.

goose2005 · 20-02-2013 01:17PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

I am not talking about the actual magdalene women here either - they deserve their apology and a lot more. I'm talking about the rest of this country going around praising edna to the high hilt because of a few croc tears. Wise UP

Moreover, he's been a TD since 1975 -- did he ever speak out on the matter when it could have made a difference?

DarkJager · 20-02-2013 01:20PM

This might be a controversial opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with the idea of taxpayers subsidising a redress fund for this. Yes, there was an element of state involvement but lets not forget that the orders & church that ran these laundries are 99.9% responsible for what happened inside them. I'd happily see the Church bled dry for every last miserable cent they have, but I don't feel that taxpayers and a government that didn't even exist while these places were in operation should be footing the bill for compensation.

Azure_sky · 20-02-2013 01:42PM

DarkJager wrote: »

This might be a controversial opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with the idea of taxpayers subsidising a redress fund for this. Yes, there was an element of state involvement but lets not forget that the orders & church that ran these laundries are 99.9% responsible for what happened inside them. I'd happily see the Church bled dry for every last miserable cent they have, but I don't feel that taxpayers and a government that didn't even exist while these places were in operation should be footing the bill for compensation.

Indeed. Victims compensated and the Catholic Church taxed to the point where it cannot continue to exist in this country. A win/win result.

tritium · 20-02-2013 01:57PM

G Power wrote: »

there is no 1 billion euro saving!! the government are trying to say they'll save a billion each year over the next 3 years but a groupe of us had an economics lecturer from NUIG explain the figure is closer to 1 bellion over the course of the next 3 years and in all likelyhood that 1 billion will be swallowed up one way or another so in reality all we're left with is a massive debt we had nothing to do with getting landed on our children's children's heads

So you needed an economics lecturer to explain that tge government will spend the money they saved in some fashion?

Really?

tritium · 20-02-2013 02:01PM

goose2005 wrote: »

Moreover, he's been a TD since 1975 -- did he ever speak out on the matter when it could have made a difference?

Honestly, the first government to actually address this issue meaningfully and all they get is abuse

They must wonder why they bother

Lou.m · 20-02-2013 04:08PM

Did people see Vincent Brown last night?

What did they think of the lady who did her own separate report? I think what she said was amazing!

That basically Irish people used these places (she called them prisons) for their free labour. Slavery effectively.

Women were sent there for being wayward and going out. Not just for being unwed mothers. SHe feels there is still a whitewash and still the church has the influence to cover it's tracks.

Newspaper reports from the time called the women penitents. They were called penitentiaries. People knew they approved i hate the denial.

My grandparents knew and my grandmother experienced life in an orphanage run by religious orders ...she described it as hell on earth. Abuse could be sexual physical or psychological all in one day..they would be denied food ...beaten... worked hours and no one cared. The affects of the abuse on her body and physical health were present even in later years.

YEARS AGO WHEN THIS FIRST CAME OUT THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRISON SENTENCES.

To be honest it says a lot that they waited for most of the abusers to be dead to apologize.

Did the church make an official apology.

kunst nugget · 20-02-2013 04:18PM

tritium wrote: »

So you needed an economics lecturer to explain that tge government will spend the money they saved in some fashion?

Really?

It's not money in the government's pockets to spend. It just means they will have to borrow less money to make the repayments. The government is operating at a massive deficit year on year at the moment.

Lou.m · 20-02-2013 05:06PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's not money in the government's pockets to spend. It just means they will have to borrow less money to make the repayments. The government is operating at a massive deficit year on year at the moment.

It is sad it comes down to money.....my grandmother got compensation....it came through after she was dead.

Lou.m · 20-02-2013 05:13PM

DarkJager wrote: »

This might be a controversial opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with the idea of taxpayers subsidising a redress fund for this. Yes, there was an element of state involvement but lets not forget that the orders & church that ran these laundries are 99.9% responsible for what happened inside them. I'd happily see the Church bled dry for every last miserable cent they have, but I don't feel that taxpayers and a government that didn't even exist while these places were in operation should be footing the bill for compensation.

The state failed to protect the rights of citizens from false imprisonment and there was state involvement. Police would physically deliver these girls to the Nun's you know. They would recapture escapees. The state stood behind them.
The Irish people used their labour.
The state is partially to blame. Germany had to compensate slave labour.

I would say it is right to suggest the church needs to take more responsibility. And yes the bulk of blame lies with them...yeah they should be bled dry..but it will never happen...never....honestly it is still too powerful in this country. But it needs to be held responsible.

kunst nugget · 20-02-2013 05:13PM

Lou.m wrote: »

It is sad it comes down to money.....my grandmother got compensation....it came through after she was dead.

You might be picking me up wrong. I wholeheartedly believe that the survivors deserve to given respect and compensation. I was just trying to clarify that we're not really saving a billion euro, it just means we're not having to borrow an extra billion.

Lou.m · 20-02-2013 05:18PM

Azure_sky wrote: »

How was it our fault? Some tax payers were not even born when it happened. That's kind of the original sin morality which the Catholic Church endorses.

The Irish people used their labor. They delivered their daughters to them. The state social workers took women away and police delivered women to the penitentiaries and recaptured escapees.

News paper ads advertized their services in cleaning and laundry. They were publicly referred too as penitentiaries.

People knew and participated .

wp_rathead · 20-02-2013 05:20PM

Read the report lads.. The Irish State was responsible for over 25% of the admissions to these institutes- ofcourse we are liable to pay compensation to the women. As a tax payer I have no problem with it.
Of course the Church should be made contribute aswell, that is obvious, but it was not just the Church- it is the countries shame

Lou.m · 20-02-2013 05:22PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

You might be picking me up wrong. I wholeheartedly believe that the survivors deserve to given respect and compensation. I was just trying to clarify that we're not really saving a billion euro, it just means we're not having to borrow an extra billion.

OH yeah i know

I am not getting at you at all.

It just seems besides the point though ....yes they should be given it but that's not the point. Many need counseling or healthcare.

Also many want to find out about their children.

Magdalene Laundries, and the Billion Euro Savings

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