Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:00PM

SB2013 wrote: »

Give it time.

Ah, you're one of those.

I think he was rejected on height grounds.

Rightwing · 17-02-2013 11:01PM

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you meet something head-on by doing nothing

WE let them go on strike, they expect us to beg them to return, but no, this time no one will care. Give it a week they'll be back in work. Crushing defeat for them.

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:02PM

Rightwing wrote: »

WE let them go on strike, they expect us to beg them to return, but no, this time no one will care. Give it a week they'll be back in work. Crushing defeat for them.

Ha ha I think I'll turn to crime. Nobody to catch me

road_high · 17-02-2013 11:04PM

Rightwing wrote: »

WE let them go on strike, they expect us to beg them to return, but no, this time no one will care. Give it a week they'll be back in work. Crushing defeat for them.

Totally agree. The days of big governement and unions holding the state to ransom are well gone. There will be a further push towrds the private sector just like telecoms and energy supply since the 80s.

Rightwing · 17-02-2013 11:04PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha ha I think I'll turn to crime. Nobody to catch me

The only crime gardai seem interested in these days is having no nct or car tax.

Rightwing · 17-02-2013 11:06PM

road_high wrote: »

Totally agree. The days of big governement and unions holding the state to ransom are well gone. There will be a further push towrds the private sector just like telecoms and energy supply since the 80s.

And people think we are against the PS. I'm 100% on their side. But if they can't become efficient, the whole country will just go bust and there'll be nothing for anyone.

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:06PM

Rightwing wrote: »

The only crime gardai seem interested in these days is having no nct or car tax.

I am so sorry to hear that. How did you find that out?

Gumbo · 17-02-2013 11:07PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I can't see why they wouldn't be able to. Bring on more garda reservists. There can't be too much involved in setting up a road checkpoint and look for a car with no tax.

This one post proves your immaturity in my opinion. It's one thing being anti PS but at least have a bit of kop on to know what the job entails.

SB2013 · 17-02-2013 11:08PM

road_high wrote: »

Is there some reason why the state could not contract servcies out to private companies for say Prison services? Nothing is sacred when you are in the hole Ireland's finances are in. This is the way things will head if savings are not relaised.
As long as strict standards and codes of practice are maintained I see no reason why the state cannot do this. I see lots of private ambulance companies around as well. Are we to believe they do less of a job than state ones. I doubt it.

It depends on what you want to give up. A private company will onyl do something for profit.

Rightwing wrote: »

The only crime gardai seem interested in these days is having no nct or car tax.

When was the last time you were in a district court?

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:09PM

road_high wrote: »

Totally agree. The days of big governement and unions holding the state to ransom are well gone. There will be a further push towrds the private sector just like telecoms and energy supply since the 80s.

I am really looking forward to seeing the Private Sector garda and prison officers.
Have you any time-frame for that?
Will they train them all at once?
And who will train them?

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:11PM

kceire wrote: »

This one post proves your immaturity in my opinion. It's one thing being anti PS but at least have a bit of kop on to know what the job entails.

Yes it's very Bart Simpson alright.

road_high · 17-02-2013 11:15PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I am really looking forward to seeing the Private Sector garda and prison officers.
Have you any time-frame for that?

Me too. Or the Unions can be realistic for a change and accept they have a massive part to play in reducing the overspend, seen as it's partly their wages we are borrowing for. Anything that reduces our €12 billion defict is a good thing. And it ain't going away so they can strike 'til the cows come home really. Alternative is keep borrowing money indefinitely to fund this extravagence which is clearly not an option.

Rightwing · 17-02-2013 11:16PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes it's very Bart Simpson alright.

Trying to use insults never wins a debate. It's a bullying tactic, like the unions use. You are letting down other posters.

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:17PM

road_high wrote: »

Me too. Or the Unions can be realistic for a change and accept they have a massive part to play in reducing the overspend, seen as it's partly their wages we are borrowing for. Anything that reduces our €12 billion defict is a good thing. And it ain't going away so they can strike 'til the cows come home really. Alternative is keep borrowing money indefinitely to fund this extravagence which is clearly not an option.

Show me the country where the Public Sector is self-funding then?

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:18PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Trying to use insults never wins a debate. It's a bullying tactic, like the unions use. You are letting down other posters.

That has to be tongue in cheek surely.

Head The Wall · 17-02-2013 11:19PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I was never in a Union where I worked in Ireland but I wish I had been. It took the Unions to get the rights that workers now enjoy but you are probably too young to remember those days.
I was in the ASLEF Union for London Transport for a few years while working there. The workers would have had little or no rights if it wasn't for the Union.
Be careful of what you wish for.

Yes, it's definitely great that tube drivers get paid £57,000 a year.

tayto lover · 17-02-2013 11:20PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Yes, it's definitely great that tube drivers get paid £57,000 a year.

It's much more than that.

Vizzy · 17-02-2013 11:21PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

Yes, it's definitely great that tube drivers get paid £57,000 a year.

Yeah,and Ireland is overrun with them.

Godge · 17-02-2013 11:41PM

don't know what you are all arguing about.

Getting back on topic, I still can't see a deal being done unless the Government gets much less than a billion.

Interesting to see the opinion poll changes in recent weeks. Given the stance on Croke Park II, I doubt there is a public sector employee or family member in the country still voting for the current government parties.

sarumite · 18-02-2013 08:26AM

Godge wrote: »

Getting back on topic, I still can't see a deal being done unless the Government gets much less than a billion.

I think both sides will need to climb down from their current positions. The government will need to roll back on the 1 billion number and the unions will need to offer more for a deal to be reached.

sean200 · 18-02-2013 09:35AM

it just got interesting
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0218/368317-gra-members-to-withdraw-voluntary-services/

Now the nurses need to get their act together and with any bit of look it will all end with this government being sacked for all the lies they have told the Irish people

sarumite · 18-02-2013 09:57AM

sean200 wrote: »

it just got interesting
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0218/368317-gra-members-to-withdraw-voluntary-services/

Now the nurses need to get their act together and with any bit of look it will all end with this government being sacked for all the lies they have told the Irish people

What is the alternative to the current government? Vote in the architects of our problems. Other than that it is the Shinners and the ULA, neither of whom offer any real coherent economic policy beyond burning the bondholders. People are pissed off with government cuts and more taxes etc, however changing government won't solve that problem. The governments hands are being forced by a combination of our own commitment to reducing our deficit as well as targets being set out by the troika.

gazzer · 18-02-2013 11:44AM

Im a bit perplexed by the articles I have been reading about increasing public sector workers hours to make savings. How will it make savings?

I know for instance in my department staff already work above and beyond their rostered hours. It would be normal to do a 8.30am to 6.30 day in my area (with a half hour for lunch) Monday to Friday. We can work up 11 hours flexi each month which is great but a lot of staff work up hours beyond that every month and they lose that time. So all that is going to happen now is that staff will continue to work above and beyond their rostered hours. Where is the saving going to be?????

tayto lover · 18-02-2013 11:49AM

gazzer wrote: »

Im a bit perplexed by the articles I have been reading about increasing public sector workers hours to make savings. How will it make savings?

I know for instance in my department staff already work above and beyond their rostered hours. It would be normal to do a 8.30am to 6.30 day in my area (with a half hour for lunch) Monday to Friday. We can work up 11 hours flexi each month which is great but a lot of staff work up hours beyond that every month and they lose that time. So all that is going to happen now is that staff will continue to work above and beyond their rostered hours. Where is the saving going to be?????

You should only work what you are being paid to work, then they might appreciate what you have been doing. If you work for nothing you will get plenty of it.

Rightwing · 18-02-2013 11:54AM

sarumite wrote: »

I think both sides will need to climb down from their current positions. The government will need to roll back on the 1 billion number and the unions will need to offer more for a deal to be reached.

It should be very easy to find €1bln. This could be got from councils alone.

Rightwing · 18-02-2013 11:56AM

gazzer wrote: »

Im a bit perplexed by the articles I have been reading about increasing public sector workers hours to make savings. How will it make savings?

I know for instance in my department staff already work above and beyond their rostered hours. It would be normal to do a 8.30am to 6.30 day in my area (with a half hour for lunch) Monday to Friday. We can work up 11 hours flexi each month which is great but a lot of staff work up hours beyond that every month and they lose that time. So all that is going to happen now is that staff will continue to work above and beyond their rostered hours. Where is the saving going to be?????

Exactly, there will be no savings. Too many staff to start with. The government should give people more time off and less pay.

sarumite · 18-02-2013 12:04PM

gazzer wrote: »

Im a bit perplexed by the articles I have been reading about increasing public sector workers hours to make savings. How will it make savings?

I know for instance in my department staff already work above and beyond their rostered hours. It would be normal to do a 8.30am to 6.30 day in my area (with a half hour for lunch) Monday to Friday. We can work up 11 hours flexi each month which is great but a lot of staff work up hours beyond that every month and they lose that time. So all that is going to happen now is that staff will continue to work above and beyond their rostered hours. Where is the saving going to be?????

I would imagine the government is more interested in targeting areas with high amounts of overtime for longer working hours. I would also imagine they are looking at areas where there is lower than average productivity. I don't mean this as a slight against the work being done, however in some places the work could be done with fewer people working longer hours. By the sounds of it your particular department doesn't sound like increasing working hours is would make any savings, however it is possible that this is not the case for the PS at large.

not yet · 18-02-2013 12:13PM

Rightwing wrote: »

It should be very easy to find €1bln. This could be got from councils alone.

Please, please stop posting this bullsh1te...........

wexfordman · 18-02-2013 12:28PM

Rightwing wrote: »

if they felt safer they can move themselves, the state shouldnt be expected to do everything for people. thats the big problem in this country.

So should the state be expected to do anything for people in that case ? Or should we be selective and have the state provide for only the things you deem suitable ?

These people have lived all their lives in the country, grown up in it, worked in it, had family, freinds etc in it. Their entire support network revovles around their local community, and you are suggesting that they should move ?

ElWalrus · 18-02-2013 12:29PM

gazzer wrote: »

Im a bit perplexed by the articles I have been reading about increasing public sector workers hours to make savings. How will it make savings?

I know for instance in my department staff already work above and beyond their rostered hours. It would be normal to do a 8.30am to 6.30 day in my area (with a half hour for lunch) Monday to Friday. We can work up 11 hours flexi each month which is great but a lot of staff work up hours beyond that every month and they lose that time. So all that is going to happen now is that staff will continue to work above and beyond their rostered hours. Where is the saving going to be?????

I'd like to add that extra hours does not necessarily mean extra productivity. I live with a teacher who complains that the extra time the teachers put in, what he terms their 'croke park hours', consist of nothing more than a staff meeting where the principal expends a lot of hot air on how to improve things, but at the end of the meeting, no changes or improvements are made. Anecdotal I know, but personally, when I push past an 8 hour day, I definitely notice a drop in my own productivity. After a certain point, it just doesn't become worthwhile.

Its worth noting that Ford cut their shifts to 8-hours in early 20th century (much to the dismay of their automotive rivals), productivity and profit margins went up. I definitely think the law of diminishing returns would apply to personnel, we're not machines! :pac:

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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