Tax on Children's Allowance?

WhatNowForUs? · 17-02-2013 12:52PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Don't see why this is a big deal. It's a no brainer if you ask me. Landlords pay tax on rental income, those working a second job pay tax on that income, those making money from interest pay DIRT tax, those making money on shares/investments pay tax, etc etc why should those with children get free money untaxed?

To me it seems like it would increase the public sector wage bill. Why tax something like childrens allowance when you can just reduce it. Government directly taking money away from you that they have directly given you - sounds so stupid that Im sure I missed something.

dvpower · 17-02-2013 12:55PM

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

To me it seems like it would increase the public sector wage bill. Why tax something like childrens allowance when you can just reduce it. Government directly taking money away from you that they have directly given you - sounds so stupid that Im sure I missed something.

We have a progressive income tax system, so taxing CHB would take more from high earners, less from lower earners and even less for earners below the tax threshold.

hoodwinked · 17-02-2013 12:57PM

snubbleste wrote: »

Something has to happen to it imo
either tax it
or
get rid of it and give tax credits for each child.

Means testing it will be ineffective and will cost the taxpayer too much.

i think this is the best option, to be fair it would encourage parents to work to provide for their children rather than encouraging the current system of popping out a few children and living on welfare,

there is a family local to us with 7 children, in a 5 bedroom council house and they get everything under the sun from either the hse or welfare,

they have iphones/ipads/flat screen 40inch hd tv's (yes plural), their childrens clothes are paid for by the hse, they get grants for everything...

they get at least €1,000 in child benefit a month, and are home all week so no childcare costs.

this should not be encouraged, there are families with €30,000p/a or more or less income who are working and struggling and depend on child benefit, be it to help cover childcare or clothes/school uniforms/college fees.

these are the people who deserve the help, they are working contributing to the country and should be praised for not sitting back and taking the piss.

remember not every baby is planned and when that happens we as a society should help those willing to help back by contributing by continuing to work.

punish the lazy.

WhatNowForUs? · 17-02-2013 12:57PM

digzy wrote: »

The ironic thing is that if there's an unemployed couple with 4 kids and you tot up what they get from the state between med cards and rent supplement etc it mightn't be too far off that figure.

As stated already. all income should be taxed whether it's derived from income or from the state benefits.

Through my work I come across a large number of medical card holders. i'm baffled at how some people have them. One lady is married to a farmer who milks about 100 cows. Another guy owns a string of pubs but i know he's been burned property speculating, another dude was driving a 1 year old masda 6 last year. My personal favourite was an accountant who's a fianna fail town councillor who owns his own house, an investment property and drives a '12 merc. you'd wonder what strokes these people pull to get these benefits when the income level criteria are quite low.

Its hard to get medical cards now. Not everybody unemployed can get rent allowance or mortgage allowance. Having said that Im sire there is a lot of corruption in the system.

apache · 17-02-2013 12:58PM

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

We have a child and I still don't think that getting child benefit is a god-given right. I don't see why people decide to have children when they don't have the money to raise them. We could do without the benefit, because we planned having a child.

This is a very admirable post. If more people had this attitude this country would be a better place.

However as much as I would love to see this coming in I can't see it coming in. People just have kids and expect the government to pay for them from OUR taxes. The handouts for nothing is too expensive. I already pay into a widow and orphans fund out of my wages in which I have no choice.

I am a firm believer if you choose to have kids you should be able to provide for them. But that will never happen in this country of handouts.

dvpower · 17-02-2013 01:07PM

apache wrote: »

I am a firm believer if you choose to have kids you should be able to provide for them. But that will never happen in this country of handouts.

Why stop at CHB?
The state makes big handouts to hundreds of thousands of pensioners too, who have had the benefit of a whole lifetime to make provision for themselves. Not to mention a raft of other cash payments to other social welfare recipients.
That's before you even go near the billions spent on providing healthcare for people who can't provide their own or a free education service to the self same people who get the free CHB handouts.

Le_Dieux · 17-02-2013 01:10PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

i think this is the best option, to be fair it would encourage parents to work to provide for their children rather than encouraging the current system of popping out a few children and living on welfare,

there is a family local to us with 7 children, in a 5 bedroom council house and they get everything under the sun from either the hse or welfare,

they have iphones/ipads/flat screen 40inch hd tv's (yes plural), their childrens clothes are paid for by the hse, they get grants for everything...

they get at least €1,000 in child benefit a month, and are home all week so no childcare costs.

this should not be encouraged, there are families with €30,000p/a or more or less income who are working and struggling and depend on child benefit, be it to help cover childcare or clothes/school uniforms/college fees.

these are the people who deserve the help, they are working contributing to the country and should be praised for not sitting back and taking the piss.

remember not every baby is planned and when that happens we as a society should help those willing to help back by contributing by continuing to work.

punish the lazy.

EXCELLENT post Hoodwinked. Well said!

apache · 17-02-2013 01:12PM

dvpower wrote: »

Why stop at CHB?
The state makes big handouts to hundreds of thousands of pensioners too, who have had the benefit of a whole lifetime to make provision for themselves. Not to mention a raft of other cash payments to other social welfare recipients.
That's before you even go near the billions spent on providing healthcare for people who can't provide their own or a free education service to the self same people who get the free CHB handouts.

This thread is about childrens allowance.

Arciphel · 17-02-2013 01:15PM

In reply to dvpower's comment above ^ what an absolute crock of shíte. So it serves people right for having the cheek to be unemployed, to get sick or even to get old and draw a pension? Or those selfish bastards who might want an education, yeah, fück them too.

apache · 17-02-2013 01:17PM

Am I missing something? This thread is about childrens allowance.

edit - oh right thought that was directed at me.

dvpower · 17-02-2013 01:17PM

apache wrote: »

This thread is about childrens allowance.

Its about the taxation of CHB actually. You expanded it out a bit by introducing the idea that 'this is a country of handouts', and I'm just following you.

dvpower · 17-02-2013 01:22PM

Arciphel wrote: »

In reply to dvpower's comment above ^ what an absolute crock of shíte. So it serves people right for having the cheek to be unemployed, to get sick or even to get old and draw a pension? Or those selfish bastards who might want an education, yeah, fück them too.

I think you miss my point.
I think that the state should be in the business of providing supports to pensioners, the healthcare system, the unemployed and the education system.
They should also be in the business of proving supports to families, rearing the next batch of taxpayers. I don't quite understand the argument that we shouldn't support families with CHB because people should make their own provision, but not extend this principal to other areas of state expenditure.

Le_Dieux · 17-02-2013 01:24PM

I was an avid follower of the HHC thread. I left it as I I couldn't take the obnoxious behaviour and comments by certain people who, I am convinced, have their own agenda, and are only on here to stir shít, and get people banned. That that person ( I cringe thinking they are a human) was allowed to continuously pass comments while decent people got banned on that thread was totally wrong IMHO.

Now, that same person is causing strife, making wild statements & doing EXACTLY as they did on that other thread can only mean people getting banned again. I have that 'person' on my ignore list, but of course I cannot stop people copying and pasting - it is their right.

I am now sorry I ever started this thread...is there a zone on Boards that is dvpowerFREE??????

clairefontaine · 17-02-2013 01:26PM

Ah. Six months after the Childrens Referendum was passed they want to tax child benefit.

They will tax whatever they can think of taxing because they need the money.

Before you know it, child maintenance will also get taxed. Watch it happen.

Duiske · 17-02-2013 01:29PM

Elessar wrote: »

Madness that a comfortable household with a combined income of say 50-60k+ gets free money for their children.

That household will have paid a fair chunk into the system already. If you gave me €100 and I gave you €10, would you consider that €10 to be "free money" ?

apache · 17-02-2013 01:29PM

dvpower wrote: »

Its about the taxation of CHB actually. You expanded it out a bit by introducing the idea that 'this is a country of handouts', and I'm just following you.

No need to expand. You don't speak for me. You only speak for yourself.
I'm well aware what the topic of this thread is even if you don't.

dvpower · 17-02-2013 01:30PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

I am now sorry I ever started this thread...is there a zone on Boards that is dvpowerFREE??????

But darling, I've already promised that I'll never buy you petrol station flowers again.

Forgive?

McNulty737 · 17-02-2013 01:35PM

Child benefit should be scrapped entirely and replaced with something less draining on the state. If you have children, why should the state have to pay for your decisions? If you have children you better get out there and work your ass off to pay for them in my opinion. People in this country need to start being accountable and stop expecting the middle income tax payer to bail everyone else out.

Ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.

Tin Foil Hat · 17-02-2013 01:37PM

dvpower wrote: »

Why not do both?

CHB is income. If its taxed then they could even increase the rate, giving poorer families more support, at the expense of better off families.

Pricing the middle class out of parenthood in order to pay the working class to have as many kids as they want is a really, really bad idea.

green_beret · 17-02-2013 01:42PM

taxing it is a sensible idea , those on high incomes will keep less of it , those on lower incomes will keep more

fair and equitable

dvpower · 17-02-2013 01:48PM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Pricing the middle class out of parenthood in order to pay the working class to have as many kids as they want is a really, really bad idea.

I agree with you there and I think there would be great resistance to taxing CHB from middle class people who feel that they pay for everything and this is the only little bit of help they get.

I'm in favour of taxing all income, not just CHB, but there would be some unintended consequences.
It would be better still to phase it out altogether, maybe over a decade or two, and move the money into children's services, but there are obvious dangers with that too.

dvpower · 17-02-2013 01:51PM

green_beret wrote: »

taxing it is a sensible idea , those on high incomes will keep less of it , those on lower incomes will keep more

fair and equitable

On the face of it, yes.

But if you take a family with a couple of kids and take a similar family with no kids, the latter family is going to be far better off. The tax system only deals in gross income, which isn't a great indicator of how well off people are.

Le_Dieux · 17-02-2013 02:10PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Ah. Six months after the Childrens Referendum was passed they want to tax child benefit.

They will tax whatever they can think of taxing because they need the money.

Before you know it, child maintenance will also get taxed. Watch it happen.

Good question Claire. And while all this is ongoing, NOT ONE of the tools in DE talk about their OWN cut backs...not ONE! My next door neighbour is a Garda, and She'e been telling me about how tough it is for them. She is single has a mortgage, and now the govt(???) want to take more from them.

WHERE will it end? As I said before, mid 80's all over again. These tramps will not be happy until we are all living in tents.

flutered · 17-02-2013 02:27PM

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Good question Claire. And while all this is ongoing, NOT ONE of the tools in DE talk about their OWN cut backs...not ONE! My next door neighbour is a Garda, and She'e been telling me about how tough it is for them. She is single has a mortgage, and now the govt(???) want to take more from them.

WHERE will it end? As I said before, mid 80's all over again. These tramps will not be happy until we are all living in tents.

being honost with you things are not as bad yet as the mid 80s, but they are heading that way, but the people will reach a point the top earners in the public service with their large wages, expenses, junkets, then lastly their massive pensions, will be the rallying cry for massive change and action.

April O Neill · 17-02-2013 02:37PM

smash wrote: »

If you consider 50-60k combined income to be a high income I feel sorry for you.

It's a comfortable household.

April O Neill · 17-02-2013 02:41PM

apache wrote: »

This is a very admirable post. If more people had this attitude this country would be a better place.

However as much as I would love to see this coming in I can't see it coming in. People just have kids and expect the government to pay for them from OUR taxes. The handouts for nothing is too expensive. I already pay into a widow and orphans fund out of my wages in which I have no choice.

I am a firm believer if you choose to have kids you should be able to provide for them. But that will never happen in this country of handouts.

You could argue that these children will pay the pensions of the future. Your pension. My pension.

Best username ever · 17-02-2013 02:43PM

April O Neill wrote: »

It's a comfortable household.

Not really. 100k is comfortable.

green_beret · 17-02-2013 02:45PM

dvpower wrote: »

On the face of it, yes.

But if you take a family with a couple of kids and take a similar family with no kids, the latter family is going to be far better off. The tax system only deals in gross income, which isn't a great indicator of how well off people are.

the family with no kids wont get any CB

17-02-2013 02:46PM

snubbleste wrote: »

Something has to happen to it imo
either tax it
or
get rid of it and give tax credits for each child.

Means testing it will be ineffective and will cost the taxpayer too much.

Tax credits and an increase in Social Welfare is the best option, imo.

green_beret · 17-02-2013 02:46PM

April O Neill wrote: »

It's a comfortable household.

very much so

Tax on Children's Allowance?

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