Renato Canova's training ideas.

woodchopper · 19-09-2012 3:47pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

So, just to clarify for the thick ones like myself, you would do a base phase, then a global phase, followed by a specific phase, with transitions in-between?

The reason why I'm asking is because that RT article specifically mentioned that there is no base training in Canova's training any more, and now I'm starting to get more than a little bit confused.

Well it is important to remember that Renato's top guys are coming off a 2.04-2.06 effort marathon so they dont need to hang around for 12 weeks doing traditional base training as they already have a huge aerobic base. Rather they take six weeks to recover and regenerate placing an emphasis on training that is not prioritized during the special phase i.e circuit training and speed work. They dont jog for 6 weeks per say. For example look at how fast Kipsang recovered from London to the Great North run. Depending on his recovery Kigsang could have easily done for example ten times a mile 3 weeks after his Olympic marathon and one week before the great North run.

He did not need to follow a "base" period after two weeks recovery. He can now follow a modified 6-8 week special phase towards New York. After all he now enters the marathon phase with the reqiured speed. In his case this is a sub 60 half marathon. The base has already been built so in that sense Renato's guys dont 'do' a traditional base period.

However for everybody else a sufficient aerobic base is required before strating a 'global' or speed phase. Yet many athletes already have a traditional base before their speed phase which can then translate towards a marathon buildup. The lenght of the build up depends on the circumstances of each individual athlete. For example if an athlete has not been running for a couple of months due to injury than that athlete would not hop into a global phase straight away. The speed to which an athlete enters the global phase depends on their level of training up until that point. One does not go from a global phase back to a base phase and repeat the cycle for cycle's sake. Rather if you are in good 10k/half marathon shape you can transition to the special phase. Think of base as training after a lenghty break.

T runner · 19-09-2012 8:59pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

So, just to clarify for the thick ones like myself, you would do a base phase, then a global phase, followed by a specific phase, with transitions in-between?

The reason why I'm asking is because that RT article specifically mentioned that there is no base training in Canova's training any more, and now I'm starting to get more than a little bit confused.

Woodchopper has it spot on there Thomas. There was a thread over on lets run and the author of the rT article admitted that even elite americans needed base work. The kenyans were already there.

Canova sometimes references a special phase before a specific phase. I stuck the "transition" phase in just to demonstrate that there should be a number of weeks for the global sessions to resemble specific sessions. Similarly i will be throwing in the odd global session in the last few weeks of the base phase.

I tried to attempt big specific sessions before my last marathon but didnt have the speed from the global phase. As a result my preparation was very very steady and my marathon although good was too steady. I think i was probably very well trained for a 50k race being honest.

Krusty_Clown · 07-12-2012 2:03pm

Marathoner Ryan Hall Chooses a New Coach - Renato Canova.

Ryan Hall wrote:

Now I feel God bringing me under a new coach to learn from and work with. In my study of training I have been drawn to the training methodology of Renato Canova. His system is different than anything I've been exposed to in the past and his athletes are flourishing under it. So I'm very excited to begin this new season of my professional career working with Coach Canova. I find his training to be most intriguing, challenging, but most importantly fun. I am very optimistic for the year to come.

It'll be interesting to watch his progress over the coming year.

RayCun · 07-12-2012 2:12pm

Renato Canova - officially better than God

woodchopper · 08-12-2012 9:18pm

RayCun wrote: »

Renato Canova - officially better than God

Correction. In the world of marathon running Renato Canova is God!

T runner · 15-02-2013 4:37pm

PROGRAM FOR STRENGHT ENDURANCE

Some useful exercises and sessions in there.

DANIELS THREADMILL CALCULATOR

Foe the uphill tempo session in the above link (or any threadmill session) to correlate a speed and incline to a flat speed and pace (input: threadmill speed and incline).

Testosterscone · 27-10-2017 8:26am

Thought now would be the perfect time to revive this thread given the results in Valencia HM at the weekend.

Sondre Moen moved to 2nd in the European All time list improving from 62.19 to 59.48.

Canova has been guiding him for the past 12 months which has saw him smash PB's from 3000m up to marathon.

Canova details the 12 month build up including sessions from here

Some of the important points to take from it;

- Sondre spent best part of 2/3 of the year at altitude (217 days in a 1 year period)
- Sondre raced alot more than typical Canova approaches
- Alot of focus on speed with plenty of racing between 1500m-10k post marathon in April
- 9 hours sleep

Jan - Mar
High Volume at altitude - (Approx 120-130 mpw)
More traditional Canova Alternation MP Sessions (7x3k MP/ 1k steady etc)
Steady Long runs up to 45k
Break down sessions - sets (600,500,400,300,200)

Races - RAK Half Marathon (62.25), Dresden 10k (28.40)
Hannover Marathon start of April (2.10.07)

April spend recovery - Sessions didn't resume till 30th - 26 days after marathon

May - August - 10k specific training
- Lots of "blend" style workouts, breakdowns and reps of 300-800
- Missed Qualifying time due to humid conditions so switch up focus to 5km for World Championship standard

Races - June - (5000m - 13.45, 1500m - 3.52.4 - PB, 10,000m - 28.15 - PB)
- July - (3000m - 7.52.5 - PB, 2x5000m - 13.31, 13.20 - PB)
- August (3x5000m - 13.31 (WC), 13.39, 13.30)

September - Shift to HM training
- More Alternation sessions - HM specific
- Less shorter reps more 10k-HM paces

Races - 10km - 27.55 PB

October - Valencia - 59.47

demfad · 08-04-2021 4:06pm

Renato Canova wrote:

In my training I refuse to have a choice between to EXTEND the distance at the same pace and to INCREASE the intensity in the same distance.

In my experience, these 2 parameters work together.

I don't want to speak about the case of the woman having 15'20", because who wrote about this case was not the real Renato (and this is the reason because the thread was cancelled...), also if his training phylosophy was very similar to mine.

In any case, during winter my main aim is to build ENDURANCE and STRENGTH. For the first, of course I use a lot of long run at different speed :

a) We start with 40' going in one week at 1 hr at comfortable pace (for example, in the case of an athlete running 14' in 5000 or 3'45" in 1500m, a pace of 3'40" per km or 5'53" per mile)

b) After this short introductive period, we move in 2 directions :
1- We extend the distance at the above pace till 1 hr 30' in the next 3 weeks

2- We try to increase the speed of 1 hr using the system of PROGRESSIVE RUN (for example, the last 20' run at 3'20" or 5'20"), extending the fast part of running till when the full hour is at the same fast pace

3- At the same time, we start to put in the program some session for STRENGTH, combining exercises of reactivity, technical exercises and short sprints uphill, carried on at the maximal intensity (otherwise, it's not possible to develop strength).

c) When we are able to do this, we have another period where we develop our training in this way :

1- If the athlete is a specialist of 10000m / HM, his long continuous run at the pace of 5'50" per mile can be extended, once per week, till 2 hr. If is a specialist of 1500 / 5000 or steeple, can remain of 1 hr 30' using some final progression.

2- Once per week, there is a LONG FAST RUN, that in the case of a runner of 10000/HM is between 20 and 25 km, and the athlete try, week after week, to run a little bit faster. In the case of an athlete for steeple / 5000 the distance is between 15 and 25 km, for a specialist of 1500m between 12 and 18 km.

3- These 2 different training are in the program every week, with 3 full days of interval in between (for example, on Monday the longest, on Friday the fastest).

4- In the middle (in this case, on Wednesday) we start to work for SPEED ENDURANCE, alternating FARTLEK (sessions lasting about 1 hour with mixed distances, for example
6' + 1' + 5' + 2' + 4' + 3' + 3' + 4' + 2' + 5' + 1' + 6' fast (42' global fast work) with 2' easy recovery (22') giving a total time of 1 hr 04'), or long intervals on track (for example, 3000 + 2 x 2000 + 5 x 1000 + 6 x 500m, recovery after 3000 and 2000 in 3', after 1000 in 2', after 500 in 1'30")

5- During the other days (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday) we use long and easy run (never less than 18 km, till 25 km, at comfortable pace) and exercises for STRENGTH, extending there execution in order to increase the STRENGTH ENDURANCE.

d) Only after these periods, when the AEROBIC BASE is consolidated, we start to put the real training of speed.
When we start with this, we cant use a weekly program, but our microcycle lasts 2 weeks, because NEVER WE GO TO REPLACE THE LONG RUN, BUT WE GO TO ADD SPEED TO THE PROGRAM ALREADY USED.
One of the most important points is : NEVER WE HAVE TO LOSE WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD BEFORE. Training is not to replace, but to ADD.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3344054&page=2

Key passage from Canova for mere mortals.

If you run longer you need more muscle fibres if you run faster you need more muscle fibres.

So in an early base week in the same week a runner:

a) extends a run from 60m to 70m (10m extended = new fibres) :: 70 mins Easy or low steady
b) increases pace of second 60m run where last 20m is about 10% faster.
:: 40m easy + 20ms @ 10% faster. The last 10m are using the new fibres recruited in run a)

This is handy for understanding how to progress base building eg converting a Lydiard 1/4 pace into a Lydiard 1/2 pace (and then on to 3/4).

Or for pushing the 60 min faster onto a longer distance to establish Canova fundamental runs. The training systematically recruit new fibres, and the new fibres are at the same time trained at a faster speed and then progressively trained more specifically.
Every week the new fibres get trained twice.

Long runs train muscle fibres to support steady runs which support AT and LT running.
At speed end hill sprints burn into new (FT Fibres) which can be then trained at more specific paces or indeed aerobic paces.

demfad · 16-05-2022 12:47pm

Just to alert you to a series of articles on Fast Running on Canova: "In the first of a series looking at the training philosophy of Italian coach Renato Canova, Matt Long talks about the work of Team GB’s Sam Harrison with her coach Vince Wilson."

https://www.fastrunning.com/training/marathon-training/making-canova-progress/33854

Good stuff on progression runs here:

It sites Canova's Progression runs:

1. Fast Progressive Runs

These should be between 20-40 mins in duration and effected between 102% of marathon race pace at the beginning of the run and up to 108% by the end of the session.

2. Medium-Fast Progressive Runs

These are framed as being between 45 and 60 mins in duration with the speed getting progressively faster between 95% and 105% of marathon speed.

3. Medium Progressive Runs

These are cited as being useful for the general preparatory phase of training associated with aerobic base building. They tend to be effected between 60 and 90 minutes in duration and unlike (1) and (2) tend to be between 85% and 100% of marathon race speed and not faster.

And shows how Wilson uses them for Harrison:

He cites a big winter 12 mile marathon prep progression run (3 x 4m), which will increase in volume to 18 (3 x 6) and even 24 miles.

There is a lovely post marathon progression run of 3 miles though, a VERY fast progression run. Wilson puts that succintly here as "Retaining the aerobic gains made during marathon training" and "a transitory session which bridges between building aerobic endurance and speed endurance."

I am a big believer in consolidating the huge aerobic base gained from marathon training and indeed the marathon race itself. This progression run taken just a few weeks after the marathon allows that transition and it's noteworthy that *Harrison ran a 10km PB two months after her marathon*.

Worth a read and I'll post the follow up articles in the series.

demfad · 17-02-2023 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070143#Comment_119070143

The final two articles in the series covering Special Blocks and Fractional/Variational running

https://www.fastrunning.com/running-athletics-news/great-britain/variety-is-the-spice-of-life/33898

Fractional running seems to be a description of (1) Long, (2) Medium, (3) Short and (4) Mixed Intervals.

Read how this was applied to a British female Int marathoner.

Canova's book describes it as used to improve lactate threshold. Intervals progess from long to short, as the body gets better at running at the higher intensities.

Variational Running seems to be a progression of "Resistance" training (what we might call long endurance"

Canova's athlete's would first progress their long run @ 80% of MP probably up to 40k. (LONG RESISTANCE RUN)

NEXT, The basic speed of the run would remain but faster 'short' variations in the speed added of 60s faster segments. (LONG RESISTANCE RUN WITH SHORT VARIATIONS) eg (1h @ even paced +10 x 1’30” Rec. 1’30” +30” Even paced)

This would prepare for the ATHLETE for the the LONG RESISTANCE RUN WITH SHORT VARIATIONS. eg 30’ even paced +7000/5000/3000m Rec. 10’ slow paced running +20’/40’ even paced (examples from Canova's booklet)

https://www.fastrunning.com/training/marathon-training/building-special-blocks/33861

Sandwell · 27-06-2023 7:18am

An epic summary of Canova's book (which is apparently very hard to find).

https://runningwritings.com/2023/06/canova-marathon-book.html

demfad · 19-07-2023 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771080#Comment_120771080

Thanks a million @Sandwell Epic indeed. A brilliant explainer

His first listed take away is especially relevant to mortals:

Training to improve fat oxidation rate–or aerobic fat power as Canova and Arcelli call it–by running at 90-100% MP is a key component of marathon training.